Welker reportedly has 'mild disdain for Pats right now' per Yahoo, 3/05

[ivanvamp]

No doubt, but it's not like Welker is on the decline. Everyone expects him to be, but so far, he isn't. What if he wasn't there last season? With extensive absences of Hernandez, Gronk and Edelman, and no real production out of anyone else other than Lloyd, we would have been toast. And so far, neither Hernandez, Edelman nor Gronk has proven that he can stay on the field for the whole season.

Very true. I really hope they keep Welker.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Welker would have been a HOF producer with Manning, Rodgers etc.... and showed he could put up big numbers with an average QB when he was working with Cassel. Great players obviously make other great players even better but they are able to do it in multiple context, it isn't exclusive to one scenario, and every receiver is worse with a crappy QB, that's also obvious.

I disagree, it is not a given that Welker would be such a standout player in a different system.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I disagree, it is not a given that Welker would be such a standout player in a different system.

Agree completely, he wouldn't have been nearly as productive for the 1956 Cleveland Browns.

Great job of moving the goalposts btw, you started with ""wouldn't be as good with a different" QB and when proven dead wrong changed it to a "different system," which obviously can't be proven. I suppose the same can be said of Brady now that i think of it. I don't buy it but you would have no choice but to accept that argument as you just used it.

 

[borg]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I disagree, it is not a given that Welker would be such a standout player in a different system.

Why... are 4 yard passes to an almost always open WW that tough of an offense to reproduce.

It could be argued Brady needs the slot guy more than the slot guy needs Brady. A decade plus of dink and dunk with a mild sprinkling of airing it out. Seems the coaches have chosen an offense where their QB can succeed the best.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No doubt, but it's not like Welker is on the decline. Everyone expects him to be, but so far, he isn't. What if he wasn't there last season? With extensive absences of Hernandez, Gronk and Edelman, and no real production out of anyone else other than Lloyd, we would have been toast. And so far, neither Hernandez, Edelman nor Gronk has proven that he can stay on the field for the whole season.

GRONK did it his rookie year, and essentially his sophomore season too (f*** Bernard Pollard).

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

You guys are both right if you think about it. Welker has serious skills. Belichick recognized that when he was a Dolphin, as you pointed out. But what were his stats in his two years with Miami?

2005 - 16 g, 29 rec, 434 yds, 0 td
2006 - 16 g, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td

He was playing with Joey Harrington and Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon at QB. To have 67 rec for 687 yards with that crew is pretty impressive, which speaks to your point, Deus. But to Nunchuck's point, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td - those would never earn a guy entrance into the HOF. Those were his best numbers prior to being with New England.

But when he arrived here and teamed up with the GOAT, he's averaged:

112 rec, 1243 yds, 6 td

Those *are* hall of fame numbers. So you are right...Welker was already an outstanding player before he arrived in New England - it's why Belichick wanted him. But Nunchuck is also right - he has a shot at the HOF because he plays with Tom Brady. He would never sniff the HOF if he was playing with guys like he had in Miami.

Now I disagree with Nunchucks that Welker would be just another guy with a different team. But he wouldn't be what he is with Brady if he played with a JAG quarterback.

Nunchucks isn't right. His posts on this matter are some of the most ridiculous posts we've seen all offseason. Even his second year in Miami, with that trio of stiffs throwing him the ball, Welker was way beyond 'JAG' status (as noted by BB), and he was clearly still developing as a WR, having gone from 0 receptions to 29 receptions to 67 receptions.

In 2006, the year he had 67 receptions, he did that despite playing with the stiffs, only starting 2 games, and playing on a team with those lousy QBs who's pass/rush ratio was just 52/48 (497/461).

What's funny is how those 'JAG' numbers, 67 receptions and 10.3 YPC match up against Amendola's numbers, when Amendola is heralded as the next guy:

Amendola's best season for receptions: 2010, with 85 (Just an 8.1 YPC)
Amendola's best season for YPC: 2012, with 10.6 on 63 catches
Amendola's best season for yards, also 2010, left him with just 2 more receiving yards than Welker's 2006 season.

Welker wasn't a JAG in Miami in 2006, a point made by BB. He wasn't a JAG when Brady was lost for the year in 2008. He wasn't even a JAG when he was coming off of ACL surgery in 2010.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Nunchucks isn't right. His posts on this matter are some of the most ridiculous posts we've seen all offseason.

I wonder how many man hours are exhausted litigating the same tired debates over and over and over and over and over and over.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Agree completely, he wouldn't have been nearly as productive for the 1956 Cleveland Browns.

I think he wouldn't be as good in any system that relies on down the field throws to move the ball and/or a running game. Why would Rodgers throw the ball to Welker on a 4 yard slant, when he could throw the ball to Jordy Nelson for a gain of 20+ yards?

The only QB that I believe might utilize Welker the same way would be Peyton Manning.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Not to mention the 111 catches Wes caught with Cassell throwing to him something Bowe never came close to with the same QB or any other QB.

Bowe doesn't even sniff Wes' jock strap.

But his contract can not be used as a jump off point for Wes as there are so many variables that are not the same.

Bowe and Cassel only had one full season together. They were both productive that season and pro-bowlers. Bowe's stats were: 74 catches, 1162 yds, 15 TDs. I'd say those numbers are comparable to WW's 111 catches, 1165 yds, 3 TDs with Cassel.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I think he wouldn't be as good in any system that relies on down the field throws to move the ball and/or a running game. Why would Rodgers throw the ball to Welker on a 4 yard slant, when he could throw the ball to Jordy Nelson for a gain of 20+ yards?

The only QB that I believe might utilize Welker the same way would be Peyton Manning.

You must be right, that's why the Patriots are the only team who uses slot receivers.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, wouldn't you have mild disdain for your employer who says to you, "Yeah, you're doing a great job, and we want to keep you, but you're asking for WAY too much money, so I guess we will let you walk..."

Nah. I wouldn't.

I think that reports of Welker's "disdain" as well of the Pats' willingness to "let you walk" are all part of the negotiating process.

The bottom line is that there is a price at which the Pats will let ANY player "walk" or be trade bait, as Samuel, Seymour and Milloy can all attest. The truth also is that, with the Pats, that price is usually a bit lower than it is for other teams.

While I assume that Welker is enough of a grownup to know that, I also have no problem with his willingness to let his agent float reports of his "mild disdain" for the Pats as part of the negotiating process.

To conclude on a truly original note, I will point out that "It's a business."

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I think he wouldn't be as good in any system that relies on down the field throws to move the ball and/or a running game. Why would Rodgers throw the ball to Welker on a 4 yard slant, when he could throw the ball to Jordy Nelson for a gain of 20+ yards?

The only QB that I believe might utilize Welker the same way would be Peyton Manning.

So true, Welker is no Jordy nelson, or Dwayne Bowe, for that matter he's not even Chad Jackson. In fact I have never seen a player who sucks so bad produce like a HOFer.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I wonder how many man hours are exhausted litigating the same tired debates over and over and over and over and over and over.

I hear you, but it's the offseason, it's the time between the combine and the start of FA, and they only allow "Patriots" football discussions on the main board, so repeating stuff is par for the course. While discussions about other topics would certainly be more interesting, they'd be consigned to the oblivions of other parts of the forum.

 

[Ring 6]

As a season ticket holder, I was at that game. Welker was conspicuous
by his absence. You notice that they lost that game to a much inferior team.
It may have proved how important Welker is. I'm sure Belichick was trying
to prove otherwise.

If you were at that game you would know they won, owuldn't you?

 

[patfanken]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I hear you, but it's the offseason, it's the time between the combine and the start of FA, and they only allow "Patriots" football discussions on the main board, so repeating stuff is par for the course. While discussions about other topics would certainly be more interesting, they'd be consigned to the oblivions of other parts of the forum.

Actually that's not a bad idea to liberalize the topic rules to have more general football conversations allowed in the off season. Right now most of the topics we have now are limited to the daily Welker thread, the occasional Volmer and Talib threads, and the limited value of of any one of about 300 "sign player X" FA threads.

 

[signbabybrady]

When I saw Brady restructured I hoped (and am still hoping) that part of that was they had reached a deal with Welker as well. A little part of me believes that Brady, after going through the Branch and Givens debacle seven years ago, went to the Pats and said I am willing to re-up, but only if Welker stays. I can't go through that !@#@ again.

This is a real pet peave of mine. What debacle are you referring too?

Did they make a mistake with letting Givens walk and then having to trade Branch in the same offseason? Yes

But to make it out like it was some debacle and slight against Brady who had just taken a team friendly deal is ludicris and ignores how they reacted to that mistake and made up for it by investing heavily in Wes and Moss (and resigning Moss after 07).

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I hear you, but it's the offseason, it's the time between the combine and the start of FA, and they only allow "Patriots" football discussions on the main board, so repeating stuff is par for the course. While discussions about other topics would certainly be more interesting, they'd be consigned to the oblivions of other parts of the forum.

Maybe we can talk about HOAs again

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Actually that's not a bad idea to liberalize the topic rules to have more general football conversations allowed in the off season. Right now most of the topics we have now are limited to the daily Welker thread, the occasional Volmer and Talib threads, and the limited value of of any one of about 300 "sign player X" FA threads.

Absolutely. Mods take under consideration please.

 

[Jimke]

If you were at that game you would know they won, owuldn't you?

Wrong game. Confused it with the Arizona game.

 

[grux]

I would be shocked if Welker wasn't signed before March 12. After everything Brady has done for the organization, the least they can do is give him his favorite receiver for the next 3-5 years.