Welker reportedly has 'mild disdain for Pats right now' per Yahoo, 3/05

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I am saying they are different players that do different things well, thus they should be compensated at different levels.

I am fine with the Chefs overpaying Bowe but he is a good player,Welker is a great player, there is no comparison. Welker has a shOt at the HOF, Bowe has no shot.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

I am fine with the Chefs overpaying Bowe but he is a good player,Welker is a great player, there is no comparison. Welker has a shOt at the HOF, Bowe has no shot.

Welker has a shot at the HoF because he plays with Tom Brady. On a team like KC, he might be a JAG.

Dwayne Bowe has no shot because he plays with guys who have no business starting as a QB in the NFL. On the Patriots, he could be HOF bound. Though I doubt he has the mental aptitude to pick up the offense and be on the same page as Brady

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Welker has a shot at the HoF because he plays with Tom Brady. On a team like KC, he might be a JAG.

Silly notion that Belichick destroyed a long, long time ago when he talked about Welker being uncoverable when he was in Miami...

 

[patfanken]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

BTW ken, you are the one who claimed 30 million was way to much for Welker but then turned around and wanted them to give Vollmer 32 for 4 and pay Talib big money, so apparently big money is fine when it is the players you want.

Once again your monomania is causing you to make it up as you go along. And for gods sake be specific. $30MM would be fine for Welker....if it was for 5 years. I could even accept $32 for 4 years if they only guarantee $16MM. (but I wouldn't be thrilled) I am against paying Welker over $10MM/yr plain and simple. You have no problem with it.

As for Volmer, I'd love to get him back at a $7-8MM/yr average if proper injury protections are built in. So what? Wouldn't you? And as for Talib, I'd love to have him back....if the contract was right. Which in my mind is about $8MM for next year in a multiyear deal that the Pats can get out of if he doesn't perform both on and off the field. In other words a one year tryout deal. But I wouldn't pay ANY of those players over $10MM/yr and I dare you to find a post where I did

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Welker has a shot at the HoF because he plays with Tom Brady. On a team like KC, he might be a JAG.

Dwayne Bowe has no shot because he plays with guys who have no business starting as a QB in the NFL. On the Patriots, he could be HOF bound. Though I doubt he has the mental aptitude to pick up the offense and be on the same page as Brady

You mean the same QB who Welker caught 112 REC for 1,165 yards for in 2008?


Wes Welker is a great player, Brady didn't make him one he benefitted from it.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Once again your monomania is causing you to make it up as you go along. And for gods sake be specific. $30MM would be fine for Welker....if it was for 5 years. I could even accept $32 for 4 years if they only guarantee $16MM. (but I wouldn't be thrilled) I am against paying Welker over $10MM/yr plain and simple. You have no problem with it.

As for Volmer, I'd love to get him back at a $7-8MM/yr average if proper injury protections are built in. So what? Wouldn't you? And as for Talib, I'd love to have him back....if the contract was right. Which in my mind is about $8MM for next year in a multiyear deal that the Pats can get out of if he doesn't perform both on and off the field. In other words a one year tryout deal. But I wouldn't pay ANY of those players over $10MM/yr and I dare you to find a post where I did

I have been very specific and consistent ken, I have been saying 4/32/20 or 5/40/20 for a long long time, and I have said that they can't pay him what he has earned because it is prohibitive. You have been all over the place, saying you agreed with me on 5/40/20 one minute and calling for 2/16 or 4-5 million a year in other posts, and neither of those would get it done.

No, i would not give Vollmer 4/32, but i would give him 4/24/12, and I have doubts he would take that. His back problems are too much risk.

I wouldn't give Talib more than 2 years and that won't get it done, in other words I wouldn't give what it would take.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Silly notion that Belichick destroyed a long, long time ago when he talked about Welker being uncoverable when he was in Miami...

Yeah, those 67 catches in the last year at Miami sure showed that he was a HoF wr in the making.

No other team would use Wes the way the Patriots use him.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Silly notion that Belichick destroyed a long, long time ago when he talked about Welker being uncoverable when he was in Miami...

You guys are both right if you think about it. Welker has serious skills. Belichick recognized that when he was a Dolphin, as you pointed out. But what were his stats in his two years with Miami?

2005 - 16 g, 29 rec, 434 yds, 0 td
2006 - 16 g, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td

He was playing with Joey Harrington and Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon at QB. To have 67 rec for 687 yards with that crew is pretty impressive, which speaks to your point, Deus. But to Nunchuck's point, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td - those would never earn a guy entrance into the HOF. Those were his best numbers prior to being with New England.

But when he arrived here and teamed up with the GOAT, he's averaged:

112 rec, 1243 yds, 6 td

Those *are* hall of fame numbers. So you are right...Welker was already an outstanding player before he arrived in New England - it's why Belichick wanted him. But Nunchuck is also right - he has a shot at the HOF because he plays with Tom Brady. He would never sniff the HOF if he was playing with guys like he had in Miami.

Now I disagree with Nunchucks that Welker would be just another guy with a different team. But he wouldn't be what he is with Brady if he played with a JAG quarterback.

 

[Nunchucks]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

You mean the same QB who Welker caught 112 REC for 1,165 yards for in 2008?


Wes Welker is a great player, Brady didn't make him one he benefitted from it.

Yep, the same player who played decently well on the Patriots and then went to KC and became the most hated player of the KC franchise.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

You guys are both right if you think about it. Welker has serious skills. Belichick recognized that when he was a Dolphin, as you pointed out. But what were his stats in his two years with Miami?

2005 - 16 g, 29 rec, 434 yds, 0 td
2006 - 16 g, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td

He was playing with Joey Harrington and Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon at QB. To have 67 rec for 687 yards with that crew is pretty impressive, which speaks to your point, Deus. But to Nunchuck's point, 67 rec, 687 yds, 1 td - those would never earn a guy entrance into the HOF. Those were his best numbers prior to being with New England.

But when he arrived here and teamed up with the GOAT, he's averaged:

112 rec, 1243 yds, 6 td

Those *are* hall of fame numbers. So you are right...Welker was already an outstanding player before he arrived in New England - it's why Belichick wanted him. But Nunchuck is also right - he has a shot at the HOF because he plays with Tom Brady. He would never sniff the HOF if he was playing with guys like he had in Miami.

Now I disagree with Nunchucks that Welker would be just another guy with a different team. But he wouldn't be what he is with Brady if he played with a JAG quarterback.

Welker would have been a HOF producer with Manning, Rodgers etc.... and showed he could put up big numbers with an average QB when he was working with Cassel. Great players obviously make other great players even better but they are able to do it in multiple context, it isn't exclusive to one scenario, and every receiver is worse with a crappy QB, that's also obvious.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Silly notion that Belichick destroyed a long, long time ago when he talked about Welker being uncoverable when he was in Miami...

Not to mention the 111 catches Wes caught with Cassell throwing to him something Bowe never came close to with the same QB or any other QB.

Bowe doesn't even sniff Wes' jock strap.

But his contract can not be used as a jump off point for Wes as there are so many variables that are not the same.

 

[patsinthesnow]

NFL FOX says the pats have a plan to replace Welker?

 

[JackBauer]

NFL FOX says the pats have a plan to replace Welker?

Florio just trying to stir up ****, IMO, given it flies in the face of all the other reportage currently out there.

I think we can all agree that Welker is somewhere in between Jesus and Mother Theresa, and thus should be extended for all eternity, with a giant bronze statue erected outside Gilette in his honor.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Welker would have been a HOF producer with Manning, Rodgers etc....

Right, no doubt. I doesn't have to be Brady. I've contended that if the Pats let Welker go and he plays in Denver, for example, he's gonna be a monster, pretty much just like he is here.

But guys like Calvin Johnson put up HOF numbers with QBs not nearly at the same level as Rodgers, Manning, and Brady. No, I know we weren't talking about Calvin Johnson; I'm just saying that Welker, like most receivers would, has benefitted greatly from playing with a great QB. That makes perfect sense, of course.

and showed he could put up big numbers with an average QB when he was working with Cassel. Great players obviously make other great players even better but they are able to do it in multiple context, it isn't exclusive to one scenario, and every receiver is worse with a crappy QB, that's also obvious.

Yeah, Welker is superb, I agree. He's better with a great QB. He's a HOF WR because (a) he's a tremendous WR, and (b) he plays with a great QB. If he didn't have both of those, he would have a much smaller chance at the HOF.

 

[Bhelmet]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

No other team would use Wes the way the Patriots use him.

Now, that is just plain silly.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Welker mild disdain for Pats right now

Not to mention the 111 catches Wes caught with Cassell throwing to him something Bowe never came close to with the same QB or any other QB.

Welker is terrific, no doubt.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Florio just trying to stir up ****, IMO, given it flies in the face of all the other reportage currently out there.

I think we can all agree that Welker is somewhere in between Jesus and Mother Theresa, and thus should be extended for all eternity, with a giant bronze statue erected outside Gilette in his honor.

Yup, this social media age has really led to even more random **** reporting. Type "Welker" on twitter, I see CSNNE and NESN reports that say "Welker, Patriots closing in on a multi-year contract." Then I see NFL Fox that they are replacing him, realizing they just stole Florio's garbage.

 

[PatsDeb]

Belichick was out to prove he could win games without Wes Welker. I
believe, with the exception of Tom Brady, he feels that way about all his players.

I think it was more Josh McDaniels who was out to prove that, but he quickly found out that his assumption was wrong, at least last season. If BB was in on it, I would think it was more of a, "let's see if we can win without Welker" scenario, with Josh responding, "Of course we can! I'll show you in the home opener." Look how that worked out.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Pats made a big mistake by not resigning Welker last season, even if they had to overpay him somewhat (and I've never seen it said that Welker is/was looking for outrageous numbers), and they will be making a big mistake if they don't resign him now. He makes the offense go and he's the most reliable guy out there next to Brady. They were dumb because they paid him top dollar under the franchise tag last year, he went out and had another great year and proved how valuable he is, and now they are right back where they started from. If they had given him a 3 year deal last year they would have gotten their money's worth (and more) in year one, and wouldn't be on eggshells now. You can't buy the kind of chemistry he has with Brady, I don't care what anyone says.

When I saw Brady restructured I hoped (and am still hoping) that part of that was they had reached a deal with Welker as well. A little part of me believes that Brady, after going through the Branch and Givens debacle seven years ago, went to the Pats and said I am willing to re-up, but only if Welker stays. I can't go through that !@#@ again.

But of course, I have no idea what really goes on, so most of this is my own wishful thinking. Today I will think a little less of the Pats, not to mention their chances next year, if they let Welker walk. I am sure a few wins to start the season, if that happens will cure me, but this is why I hate the business side of the NFL and the off-season. During the season it is an escape from the drudgery and uncertainty of life. During the off-season, it's part of it.

 

[ivanvamp]

I think it was more Josh McDaniels who was out to prove that, but he quickly found out that his assumption was wrong, at least last season. If BB was in on it, I would think it was more of a, "let's see if we can win without Welker" scenario, with Josh responding, "Of course we can! I'll show you in the home opener." Look how that worked out.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Pats made a big mistake by not resigning Welker last season, even if they had to overpay him somewhat (and I've never seen it said that Welker is/was looking for outrageous numbers), and they will be making a big mistake if they don't resign him now. He makes the offense go and he's the most reliable guy out there next to Brady. They were dumb because they paid him top dollar under the franchise tag last year, he went out and had another great year and proved how valuable he is, and now they are right back where they started from. If they had given him a 3 year deal last year they would have gotten their money's worth (and more) in year one, and wouldn't be on eggshells now. You can't buy the kind of chemistry he has with Brady, I don't care what anyone says.

When I saw Brady restructured I hoped (and am still hoping) that part of that was they had reached a deal with Welker as well. A little part of me believes that Brady, after going through the Branch and Givens debacle five years ago, went to the Pats and said I am willing to re-up, but only if Welker stays. I can't go through that !@#@ again.

But of course, I have no idea what really goes on, so most of this is my own wishful thinking. Today I will think a little less of the Pats, not to mention their chances next year, if they let Welker walk. I am sure a few wins to start the season, if that happens will cure me, but this is why I hate the business side of the NFL and the off-season. During the season it is an escape from the drudgery and uncertainty of life. During the off-season, it's part of it.

It's the reality of the salary cap. Pre-cap, the Patriots could have kept our favorite players. Now? You just can't keep everyone. I know that they have the $$ to keep Welker if they want, obviously, but the cap means they have a limited amount of money to spend and so tough decisions need to be made.

Stinks, but there's no way around it.

 

[PatsDeb]

It's the reality of the salary cap. Pre-cap, the Patriots could have kept our favorite players. Now? You just can't keep everyone. I know that they have the $$ to keep Welker if they want, obviously, but the cap means they have a limited amount of money to spend and so tough decisions need to be made.

Stinks, but there's no way around it.

No doubt, but it's not like Welker is on the decline. Everyone expects him to be, but so far, he isn't. What if he wasn't there last season? With extensive absences of Hernandez, Gronk and Edelman, and no real production out of anyone else other than Lloyd, we would have been toast. And so far, neither Hernandez, Edelman nor Gronk has proven that he can stay on the field for the whole season.