Peter King :It's time to make room for Flacco in upper echelon of QBs

[The Gr8est]

Are there people out there that consider Stafford, Cutler, Rivers, Romo or Newton in the upper echelon? The question is would you take him over a Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, etc...?

Not trying to support the ravens fan's argument, but Peyton Manning audibled out of a pass into a run late in the 4th quarter of the Ravens-Broncos game, when a 1st down would have iced the win.

Maybe I am damning Manning more than praising Flacco, but there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm going by career accomplishments'

The three QBs named have done nothing but choke their whole careers. Everytime they get into a big game, they choke. Stafford vs the Pack, Rivers vs the Broncos, and Romo every freaking game. Flacco may not throw for 5000 yds but he also won't throw crucial picks to lose the game either. He is amongst the best in the league for his career in protecting the ball.

See, that is nonsense. What you're doing is crediting Flacco for having a good team around him. Stafford's been dealing with a young team and a bad coach, for example. Stick Flacco on the Cowboys, with that O-line and Flacco's a dead man. As for Rivers, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself now. He's been a top 5-6 QB for a fair portion of his career. Flacco's never sniffed that level.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yawn we hear this every time.

Flacco not elite. LOL.
NFL QBs On Facebook - The Divisional Roundup - Cosby Sweaters [Warning: Crude language]

 

[Deus Irae]

This is a nice parlor game while we watch the seconds tick by until game time. My current top ten definitely includes the 4 guys left standing as a starting point, so I'd go:

Brady
Rodgers
Peyton Manning
Brees
Roethlisberger (if healthy)
Eli Manning
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
Matt Stafford
Colin Kaepernick (only because he stepped up huge against the Packers).

I'm weighting this year heavily, but still pulling in past seasons, so give me

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. P. Manning
6. Ryan
7. RG3
8. Wilson
9. Stafford
10. Rivers

I don't put Smith/Kaepernick in the mix because Smith got pulled and C.K. has too small a sample size. Eli would probably come in at 11, FWIW. You could probably round out the top 15 with (in no particular order) Schaub, Flacco, Romo and Luck.

 

[patfanken]

Please, the mediots have an attention span of gnat. Its all about what's the flavor of the month...more like the flavor of the week. Flacco has done well for 2 games and in the AFC is the flavor of the month.

You want to bet that if Kapernick makes it to the superbowl, there will more than a few that will give the QB edge to the Niners vs Brady Colin Kaepernick, the ULTIMATE flavor to the month

 

[1%er]

Ok, it's just my take. But here are my thoughts on QB tiers, in no particular order within the tiers:

Tier One (Elite)
Brady
Rodgers
Manning
Brees

Tier Two (Very good/Sub-elite)
Roethlisberger
RG3
Kaepernick
Stafford
Wilson
Ryan
Newton

Tier Three (Good)
Luck
Romo
Schaub
Cutler
Rivers

Tier Four (Average)
Dalton
Flacco
Palmer
Tannehill
Fitzpatrick
Vick
E. Manning
Bradford
Cassell
Freeman

Tier Five (Not Good)
Sanchez
Weeden
Locker
Ponder
Skelton
Gabbert

So, maybe you COULD move Flacco into the next tier, but three weeks ago, most people would have agree that he wasn't a top 15 QB. But what 22 NFL QBs are below Flacco for him to be a Top 10? And Top 10 isn't elite. Top 5 is elite, so who among RG3, Kaepernick, Stafford, Big Ben, Wilson, Ryan, or Newton would you wanna replace with Joe Flacco?

Kaepernick is not the 7th best QB in the NFL. He has started 8 career games. Do you use drugs? Like your list is laughable.

 

[ivanvamp]

Kaepernick is not the 7th best QB in the NFL. He has started 8 career games. Do you use drugs? Like your list is laughable.

There's a difference between these three questions:

1. Who is the best QB in the NFL?

2. Who would you prefer to start one game if the fate of the world hung in the balance?

3. Who would you want at QB at the start of 2013, given contract, age, ability, everything?

The answer to #1 is almost certainly either Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers.

The answer to #2 might not be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, but they'd be on the very short list to be sure. It might be Eli Manning for crying out loud.

The answer to #3 might very well be Colin Kaepernick.

 

[1%er]

I'm weighting this year heavily, but still pulling in past seasons, so give me

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Roethlisberger
5. P. Manning
6. Ryan
7. RG3
8. Wilson
9. Stafford
10. Rivers

I don't put Smith/Kaepernick in the mix because Smith got pulled and C.K. has too small a sample size. Eli would probably come in at 11, FWIW. You could probably round out the top 15 with (in no particular order) Schaub, Flacco, Romo and Luck.

Roethlisberger why do you have him 4th? Are you just a fan because otherwise it makes no sense..

 

[1%er]

There's a difference between these three questions:

1. Who is the best QB in the NFL?

2. Who would you prefer to start one game if the fate of the world hung in the balance?

3. Who would you want at QB at the start of 2013, given contract, age, ability, everything?

The answer to #1 is almost certainly either Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers.

The answer to #2 might not be Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, but they'd be on the very short list to be sure. It might be Eli Manning for crying out loud.

The answer to #3 might very well be Colin Kaepernick.

Unless Kaepernick included SF's OL and defense I'd start the following,

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
P Manning
Ryan
E Manning
Luck
RGIII
Roethlisburger
Romo
Wilson

 

[TruthSeeker]

I doubt that anybody who has ever laced 'em up and stepped between the lines during an NFL game would speak lightly of the throw he made to win on Saturday, no matter how "poorly defended" it might have been. He still had to put the ball on the money way down field in the air over the arms of a rusher with no time outs if he took a sack and in sub zero conditions.

I haven't laced them up so I can't speak from that perspective.

The throw was not "on the money". It was simply a heave. The wide receiver had to slow down and practically stop to catch the ball. Baltimore's only hope was for either really bad mis-defense by the safety or for pass interference. They got the first.

There was some pressure, but nothing like what you're making it out to be. It's not like he was flattened after the pass; was he even hit? The pressure was not in his face, it was mostly off to the side. It was a good throw - in the sense that he put it out there a long way in order to give his receiver a shot at the catch - but nothing more. Pretty much any NFL QB with arm strength could have done the same thing. It didn't involve any special ability to be reading defenses or throwing it into a tight window. It was a heave after stepping up to avoid pressure. Nice job by Joe.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I can recall when the Pats were defense first and Ty Law was thought to be more responsible for their success than Brady. But hey, who am I kidding. Brady was the best from day one.

Brady was special back in 2001 and 2002 but make no mistake about it - his role was intentionally limited on the team. The great part about it was that when they needed him to step up, Brady stepped up big time. The Patriots were counting on their defense back in those years, not their offense.

By the time 2003 rolled around that had changed.

Flacco certainly steps up and has some really good games. He's above average. He's nowhere near Hall of Fame quality at this point.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Deus nailed it. Even if you were to lower Rivers, Stafford, and Romo for bad years, I still wouldn't name Flacco him a top 10 QB.

Throwing the past out the window, the best QBs IMO as of right now:

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Manning
4. Brees
5. Ryan
6. Wilson
7. RGIII
8. Kaepernick
9. E. Manning
10. Roethlisberger

Considering the progression Dalton made from rookie to 2nd year, I think you have an argument for him over Flacco when you consider that Flacco is in his 5th year.

 

[1%er]

Deus nailed it. Even if you were to lower Rivers, Stafford, and Romo for bad years, I still wouldn't name Flacco him a top 10 QB.

Throwing the past out the window, the best QBs IMO as of right now:

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Manning
4. Brees
5. Ryan
6. Wilson
7. RGIII
8. Kaepernick
9. E. Manning
10. Roethlisberger

Considering the progression Dalton made from rookie to 2nd year, I think you have an argument for him over Flacco when you consider that Flacco is in his 5th year.

Romo - 4903 YDS, 65.6% CMP, 28 TD is a bad season?

 

[1%er]

See, that is nonsense. What you're doing is crediting Flacco for having a good team around him. Stafford's been dealing with a young team and a bad coach, for example. Stick Flacco on the Cowboys, with that O-line and Flacco's a dead man. As for Rivers, just stop. You're embarrassing yourself now. He's been a top 5-6 QB for a fair portion of his career. Flacco's never sniffed that level.

You're such a hypercritical poster, your going at him for Flacco having a good team around him yet you place Big Ben in the top 4 of your rankings when he has only succeeded because of a team with great coaching, running game and the top 5 defense over the last decade.

The only one embarrassing themselves in this forum is you. Your 4th ranked QB could't take a team with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL to the playoffs but Flacco benefited from his 17th ranked defense more..

 

[Deus Irae]

You're such a hypercritical poster, your going at him for Flacco having a good team around him yet you place Big Ben in the top 4 of your rankings when he has only succeeded because of a team with great coaching, running game and the top 5 defense over the last decade.

The only one embarrassing themselves in this forum is you. Your 4th ranked QB could't take a team with the #1 ranked defense in the NFL to the playoffs but Flacco benefited from his 17th ranked defense more..

Again your bias makes discussing this with you a waste of time, which is why I'm not going to do it. Your arguments are ridiculously incomplete.

 

[1%er]

Again your bias makes discussing this with you a waste of time, which is why I'm not going to do it. Your arguments are ridiculously incomplete.

I'm not bias at all. I don't have anything against Big Ben I just think that he does not justify being considered elite. He has won SB and made the playoffs because of the same reason your claiming Flacco does. He doesn't carry the Steelers and has never been the reason they've won.

If you can justify to me why you have him 4th maybe I'd understand but you haven't. If you're just a fan I get it but I see no reason to rank him that high. The Steelers are 10-7 without Ben in his career. Charlie Batch was 5-2.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Well, based on an extensive reading of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that everyone can agree that, if we define the "Upper Echelon" as above the halfway line (i.e., Number 16 or above) and the "Lower Echelon" as below the halfway line (i.e., Number 17 or below), then Joe Flacco is in the "Upper Echelon" of NFL QB's. :singing:

Now, all folks have to do is agree where in that "Upper Echelon" he falls, which is a uniquely tedious waste of time, IMO.

Can't we all just get along?

 

[PATRlOT]

Deus nailed it. Even if you were to lower Rivers, Stafford, and Romo for bad years, I still wouldn't name Flacco him a top 10 QB.

Throwing the past out the window, the best QBs IMO as of right now:

1. Brady
2. Rodgers
3. Manning
4. Brees
5. Ryan
6. Wilson
7. RGIII
8. Kaepernick
9. E. Manning
10. Roethlisberger

Considering the progression Dalton made from rookie to 2nd year, I think you have an argument for him over Flacco when you consider that Flacco is in his 5th year.

LOL take Kaepernick and Eli the f*** out of there!

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm not bias at all. I don't have anything against Big Ben I just think that he does not justify being considered elite. He has won SB and made the playoffs because of the same reason your claiming Flacco does. He doesn't carry the Steelers and has never been the reason they've won.

If you can justify to me why you have him 4th maybe I'd understand but you haven't. If you're just a fan I get it but I see no reason to rank him that high. The Steelers are 10-7 without Ben in his career. Charlie Batch was 5-2.

I don't care to jump in on this debate at all. I just have a bone to pick with the bolded. In the biggest game of his career to date, Roethlisberger spearheaded a last minute drive with a TD pass to seal the Super Bowl. Just saying...

 

[1%er]

I don't care to jump in on this debate at all. I just have a bone to pick with the bolded. In the biggest game of his career to date, Roethlisberger spearheaded a last minute drive with a TD pass to seal the Super Bowl. Just saying...

Eli Manning has done that twice and both times against a tough opponent but yet he is maybe 11th on DI's list.

It was an 8-8 cardinals team.