Why Steelers take Holmes over Jackson?

[Remix 6]

maybe he fits their system better. everyone says..why Maroney over Williams? Fits our system better..we liked him more. They had Holmes rated higher..they liked what they saw. and dont use the arrests against Holmes..hes a great player and if he was there in the 2nd instead of Jackson..we would have taken him

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

I guess I'm just stunned to see this on a Pats board. The Pats have won 3 Super Bowls with a lot of tiny WR's on their roster. The Pittsburgh Steelers just won a SB with Cedric Wilson and Randle EL and Hines - 5'11" - Ward.

Last year I wanted the Pats to sign Cedrick Wilson. After the Steelers signed him, KC Joyner said that "they were on to something". It wasn't until the playoffs that the Steelers started throwing to Wilson and it payed off. In terms of value, Wilson is better than Burress.

 

[VJCPatriot]

The Steelers were trying to replace Randel El. Holmes is more in that mold than Jackson I think. Certainly if character were the concern Holmes wouldn't have been the 1st WR off the board. Let's just be thankful the Pats got their man in Jackson.

 

[Ring 6]

I think its pretty simple.
Both were worthy of being picked in that slot. You can argue the strengths and weaknesses of one vs the other. If Holmes were already off the board, the Steelers would have taken Jackson (Assuming there wasnt somethign they really saw wrong with him for their system/team) and if Holmes were there and Jackson not when the Pats picked they would have taken Holmes.

I think both saw value in the pick they made. And I think both would have seen value in taking the other guy.
The Steelers chose between the 2, and chose Holmes, which no doubt was a close call.
The real interesting part of this is that Jackson was still available to the Pats in the second. That was a steal-----on paper, we will see if it is in reality.

Personally, when the Pats were on the board in round 1 I was expecting JAckson to be taken, so I am thrilled to get him in round 2. Whatever Holmes ends up doing, good or bad is irrelevant to that,

 

[sarge]

hes a great player and if he was there in the 2nd instead of Jackson..we would have taken him

And you know this how?

Had Williams been picked before we got Maroney, it would have been just as viable to say that had Williams been available, we would have picked him.
And we know that isn't true.

Not sure any of what Holmes has done will affect him as a player.

But I have no respect for him as a person!

 

[mavfan2390]

hes a great player and if he was there in the 2nd instead of Jackson..we would have taken him

Remix, I doubt that, remember there were reports of the Patriots taking Jackson in the first, and even trading up for him. Also, Holmes wasn't invited for an interview, Jackson was, and BB didn't go see Holmes work out, but he did go see Jackson. Not to mention BB has a relationship with Meyer. Anyways, be glad we didn't draft Holmes, he has some serious character concerns.

 

[bunzoburns]

Holmes

Ohio State receivers often have success in their first year coming out of college. They seem to be very polished and excellent route runners. First hand, we saw that Terry Glenn caught 90 balls in his first 14 games. However, they always seem to lack the commitment to sustain their careers or live up to their potential, i.e. Galloway, Sanders, Boston, and Glenn. With the exception of Chris Carter, they seem to level off to mediocrity.

However, Florida receivers do not have a strong history in the NFL either. But I am sure BB and Pioli would not have drafted the guy if football was not important to him and his physical skills are outstanding. No doubt, I am sure this kid is more of a raw talent; hopefully he can buck the previous trend.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Both receivers are nearly identical when talking about skill sets that both the Pats and the Steelers would look for in a WR.

However a couple of things to consider.

1.) Holmes has the experience edge. (Jackson really only had 1 productive year)
2.) Holmes played in a pro style offense in a northern state. (As opposed to JAckson in the Urban Myers funk offense in the southern swamps.)
3.) Holmes has a reputation as a more willing blocker than Jackson, an absolute must in the Steelers offense.
4.) OSU's record of producing productive NFL receivers vs. Florida's or more specifically, Myer's.

As for pro WRs, it's all about creating separation (from the LOS to the endzone and/or from sideline to sideline) and securing the rock. If you can do it successfully the NFL has a spot for you.

I think Ochmed really hit it on the head. Legal matters aside (though they may play a major role in the years to come), I think their picking of Holmes over Jackson came because Holmes is also a very good return man, and by picking him, he not only helps in the receiving department, but also in the special teams department (possibly replacing ARE), I don't know if this fact was touched on yet.

Also as Ochmed said, Holmes was a little more consistent, back to back 50+ catch years, as opposed to 29 catches one year and 88 cathes the next by Jackson. Jackson's inconsistency, or what appears to be inconsistent, seems to be the coaching change between those two years. The 29 catch year he averaged 20+ YPC, while his 88 catch year, only about 10 YPC, showing a huge difference in coaching strategy.

I love the fact that Jackson is a Patriot, he has shown great hands in minicamps so far, and had great speed, and good but not massive size (very good leaping abilty. Unfortunately for Steeler fans, Holmes has shown a lot of poor judgement. Hopefully his judgement is a sign of immaturity, hell even Irving Fryar went through some bad times, but turned it around and had Hall of Fame numbers and now is a big contributer to society.

P.S- Most pre-draft guides had Holmes rated as the #1 rated receiver, and Jackson anywhere from #2 to #6. So I'm not shocked Holmes was Pittsburgh's choice, and thought at the time it was a good move to go up and get him. Now with recent developements, I'm not so sure.

 

[Bostonian1962]

They even traded up I think. After seeing Chads videos
and stats, I would have thought Steelers would have take the bigger,
heavier but just as fast Jackson.
Some reports seem to indicate Holes will have a hard time with jams at this
level.
It seems Jackson's hands are superb ... I doubt Holmes could be any better.

Not complaining but just wondering. Maybe BB has an angel up there helping
him. He sure seems blessed.

As best I can tell, they looked at films, did some interviews, studied graphs, charts, tarot cards, and then...........................................................

SCREWED UP!

 

[shakadave]

Somebody in NE had better wake up because big WR's, which the Pats have shown a recent bent toward having, have been watching Deion Branch play football from their big WR couches. They've been Watching Troy Brown play football. What happens when Randy Moss and Troy Brown compare rings?

I too thought this was an inciteful post, but the Moss-Brown comparison doesn't work. By that logic, Dan Klecko has as many rings as Lawrence Taylor, right?

 

[VJCPatriot]

I too thought this was an inciteful post, but the Moss-Brown comparison doesn't work. By that logic, Dan Klecko has as many rings as Lawrence Taylor, right?

Umm Troy Brown will have more rings?
Randy Moss is more talented though.
I'm not sure what the first poster's point is.

Then again Troy Brown has been pivotal to the Pats success in the playoffs. I can still remember the game that he almost single handledly beat the Steelers in the AFCC with not only his receiving but his punt returns.

Anybody look up Moss' playoff stats?

 

[Shoofyou10]

As a Steeler Fan, I wanted to put my 2 cents in. I think think that most people hit the nail on the head with the reasons the Steelers picked Holmes over Jackson. It was more about system and polish right now. They needed someone who could step in right now and fill in for Randle El. I think Jackson was a steal for you guys in the second round. I would have been happy as a Steelers fan to have either Holmes or Jackson. Who knows whos going to be better in the long run?

As far as Troll coming on here and braging about the Steelers taking "class acts" was off base. Jeremy Bloom seems like a class act but there was a reason he didnt go in the first round. The Steelers picked Holmes because he was higher on their board and they thought he would fit into their mold of receiver (Blocking is key for a receiver in the steelers system becasue of how much we run the ball). Now the Steelers wont draft people who have serious character issues (ala, Randy Moss and Warren Sapp are 2 players I remember the Steelers passing on) but as long as there is no major character issues then they will draft who they think fits best. I believe the Pats are the same type of an organization.

Lastly, as far as those pictures of Ben being drunk and hitting on girls, I dont find anything wrong with that. He is a 23 year old kid who has fame and fortune. I know if i was in his situation I would do the same thing. As long as he is not geting arrested and he is just having fun and drinking (which is not against the law) then good for him. He is a class act when he needs to be, IE, in front of the cameras, out in public, and on the field. But a 23 year old kid is going to want to go out and have fun and get drunk every once in a while. On the field he is very mature for his age but off of it he is still just 23 and has lessons to learn (I think the motorcycle thing was a big showing of him immaturity and a lesson learned). But to critisize a single, 23 year old guy for going out and trying to get drunk and laid is not right in my opinion.

But to get back to the receiver thing, I hope that they both turn out to be great players.

 

[JoeSixPat]

As a Steeler Fan, I wanted to put my 2 cents in. I think think that most people hit the nail on the head with the reasons the Steelers picked Holmes over Jackson. It was more about system and polish right now. They needed someone who could step in right now and fill in for Randle El. I think Jackson was a steal for you guys in the second round. I would have been happy as a Steelers fan to have either Holmes or Jackson. Who knows whos going to be better in the long run?

As far as Troll coming on here and braging about the Steelers taking "class acts" was off base. Jeremy Bloom seems like a class act but there was a reason he didnt go in the first round. The Steelers picked Holmes because he was higher on their board and they thought he would fit into their mold of receiver (Blocking is key for a receiver in the steelers system becasue of how much we run the ball). Now the Steelers wont draft people who have serious character issues (ala, Randy Moss and Warren Sapp are 2 players I remember the Steelers passing on) but as long as there is no major character issues then they will draft who they think fits best. I believe the Pats are the same type of an organization.

Lastly, as far as those pictures of Ben being drunk and hitting on girls, I dont find anything wrong with that. He is a 23 year old kid who has fame and fortune. I know if i was in his situation I would do the same thing. As long as he is not geting arrested and he is just having fun and drinking (which is not against the law) then good for him. He is a class act when he needs to be, IE, in front of the cameras, out in public, and on the field. But a 23 year old kid is going to want to go out and have fun and get drunk every once in a while. On the field he is very mature for his age but off of it he is still just 23 and has lessons to learn (I think the motorcycle thing was a big showing of him immaturity and a lesson learned). But to critisize a single, 23 year old guy for going out and trying to get drunk and laid is not right in my opinion.

But to get back to the receiver thing, I hope that they both turn out to be great players.

Yeah - Troll07 makes a lot of good and football-smart Steelers fans look bad that's for sure... we've had our share of idiot Steelers trolls here too - but beyond that I think there's a high degree of respect for Steelers fans - most of whom are really "Football Fans" first and foremost.

Although its interesting to hear that there was disagreement in the Steelers front office, there's nearly always a diversity of opinion on a 1st round player - and I think most Patsfans recognize that in the short term - in a football-only sense - Holmes looked to be the better match for Pittsburgh's short term needs in the 1st round (though I feel long term Jackson will be the better player).

I don't doubt that we might have chosen Holmes in the 2nd round ourselves if Jackson were gone too

But its just too funny that Troll07's rationale was to play the character card given both Holmes and Big Ben!

Famous last words - I think he jinxed you!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Looks like the rest of the NFL is beginning to ask themselves this same question... Why DID the Steelers take Holmes?

POSTED 5:15 p.m. EDT, June 28, 2006

WHAT ABOUT CHAD?

As more and more folks are expressing concern regarding the decision of the Pittsburgh Steelers to draft, via a trade up from No. 32 to No. 25, receiver Santurdio in round one of the 2006 draft, more and more folks are asking why the Steelers didn't sit tight and take Florida receiver Chad Jackson.

Instead, Jackson went to the Patriots (who traded up with the Packers) at No. 36.

If the Steelers had stayed at No. 32 (and assuming that the Pats wouldn't have traded into the bottom of round one to get Jackson), the Steelers could have had Jackon instead of Santurdio -- and kept the third-round and fourth-round picks that were sent to the Giants for the ability to move up by seven spots.

At first blush, the reason for picking Holmes over Jackson is simple: Holmes has superior punt-return and kick-return credentials, and the Steelers needed a replacement for Antwaan Randle El. But the fact that the Steelers took return specialist Willie Reid in round three suggests that Holmes was selected primarily for his potential contributions to the passing game.

Though Jackson wasn't regarded as a choir boy, the Pats obviously concluded that he'll respond well to strong on-field and off-field leadership from guys like quarterback Tom Brady and coach Bill Belichick. Jackson has proven himself worthy of the team's trust so far, in light of his strong performances during the helmets-and-underwear practices of May and June.

And perhaps the real difference between Jackson and Santurdio is that, because Jackson didn't attend a school that finishes its classes in June, he was able to join his NFL team early enough for said strong leadership to slap him upside the head, if necessary. For Santurdio, isolation from the team through early June due to the stoopid rule aimed at placating college coaches might have contributed to his Memorial Day weekend arrest, which in turn might have contributed to the overall stress that resulted in him allegedly roughing up one of his baby mamas.

But shouldn't the Steelers, who apparently were aware of potential concerns regarding Santurdio, have considered the fact that he'd be off limits (but for one weekend minicamp) well into June? Our guess is that some members of the organization took that into account, and that others either chose to ignore it -- or to disregard it.

In the end, the best play for the Steelers might have been to address another position at No. 32, or to trade out of the spot. It's not as if the Steelers in the Cowher era have found high-quality, high-character receivers in round one (see Troy Edwards, Plaxico Burress).

At this point, any strategy other than the one on which the team embarked would have been a better one, especially in a town that has low tolerance for turds.

 

[WhiZa]

I'm usually not a fan of bumping old threads, but I was pondering what it would be like if we got Holmes instead of Jackson. The Steelers probably would not of won today if they even made it to the SB.

 

[gomezcat]

I'm usually not a fan of bumping old threads, but I was pondering what it would be like if we got Holmes instead of Jackson. The Steelers probably would not of won today if they even made it to the SB.

Interesting question. It's possible that a) they might have turned Jackson into a good NFL player (unlikely, though) or b) that they might have dumped him as we did and drafted a replacement.

It is interesting to hypothesise, though. Imagine if James Harrison had not faked the rush, or if Warner had spotted him doing it. Or if they had gone for three....

 

[Mangold74]

Interesting question. It's possible that a) they might have turned Jackson into a good NFL player (unlikely, though) or b) that they might have dumped him as we did and drafted a replacement.

It is interesting to hypothesise, though. Imagine if James Harrison had not faked the rush, or if Warner had spotted him doing it. Or if they had gone for three....

Holmes has developed into a heck of a wr. He's great in space. Good route runner. Can go deep.

 

[cstjohn17]

I'm usually not a fan of bumping old threads, but I was pondering what it would be like if we got Holmes instead of Jackson. The Steelers probably would not of won today if they even made it to the SB.

Why not bump it up? It is the offseason what else are we going to do... ps, I like to new icon Mr. Pioli, it looks like your photoshop skills are right up there with mine

I think the original question was "Why Steelers take Holmes over Jackson?"

It is because the Steelers know what they are doing, they know their system and can draft.

I know paper doesn't play paper, but on paper they are the class of the league but I wouldn't consider them dominant. Lets see what the Patriots do to improve, getting #12 healthy is a good start.

 

[gomezcat]

Why not bump it up? It is the offseason what else are we going to do... ps, I like to new icon Mr. Pioli, it looks like your photoshop skills are right up there with mine

I think the original question was "Why Steelers take Holmes over Jackson?"

It is because the Steelers know what they are doing, they know their system and can draft.

I know paper doesn't play paper, but on paper they are the class of the league but I wouldn't consider them dominant. Lets see what the Patriots do to improve, getting #12 healthy is a good start.

True. However much I dislike the Steelers, I have a heck of a lot of respect for their organisation. They, like the Pats, do things the right way. They build for the long-term and don't waste money on FAs in the hope of a one and done SB. I think it's no accident that the Cards' very impressive turnaround was led by an ex-Steelers coach.

 

[gomezcat]

Holmes has developed into a heck of a wr. He's great in space. Good route runner. Can go deep.

Very true. He was very impressive last night.