PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
Search

Content Post Idle thoughts -

2022 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: N/A
Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's incredible how dysfunctional the OL has been this season. You can blame our new OL coach, Patricia for some of this (switching the position of our 2 tackles, which didn't improve either one); but ultimately this is really on Bill for making zero moves during this offseason to shore up the OL from the lack of quality depth. We lost Karras & Mason, we bring in Cannon & try out pizza boy. All of this during the sophomore year of your 1st Rd QB. What a joke.
Blame is clearly your favorite emotion, V. It isn't healthy my friend.

Karras was nothing more than a solid back up interior OLman and Mason has been a sieve in TB (though he was pretty good here). Karras got starter money in Cinci. BELIEVE me, if we had paid him that much here, you would have a kaniption fit....and BLAMED somebody. I don't know what has happened to Mason, but Brady's OL isn't protecting him any better than ours has Mac. And Brady is playing in the worst division in the league and Mac might be playing in the best.

I DO agree with you that the experiment of swapping OT position has NOT worked out that well. But the entire operation is still a work in progress. But don't blame me if thingz eventually DO work out. ;)
 
Last edited:

PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
*DB's. While we missed Duggar on the TE, it was a revelation to see what potential Peppers brings to the equation. The man can be both explosive in the way he runs AND how he hits. He also made a great play on the last onside kick which was REALLY well executed by the Jets kicker. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him in the future.
I truly believe this is the future of the NFL in the short term (next 3-5 years). Most LBs replaced by S. While I realize there's a risk calculus there because of the give and take between strength and speed there are just too many skill players on the field these days with the speed aspect in their skill bag - from TEs, to WRs to RBs to even QBs now.

Sure, there will be the odd team that is built just to run with size everywhere that might overwhelm that alignment, but that doesn't seem to be the trend of the league right now so the odds are ever in the favor of those able to quickly get the speedsters down.

And to one of Ken's other points about L. Jackson in BMore - Peppers is the one guy that does what Ken always advocates - hits every time, usually hard, and with the intent that he's just going to keep on hitting (at least from what I've seen so far this year).
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I don't know how @captain stone still feels about Wise Jr., but he does seem to be playing a heck of a lot better than in the past.

Cole Strange had his "Welcome to the NFL" game.

He's finally beginning to attempt to live up to his contract; good for him and for us.

He's still not the one I'd prefer to see opposite Judon on passing downs however... If we had another legit Pass-Rusher we could then move Wise inside with Barmore, with Judon & The Other Pass-Rusher at DE... Now that's cooking with fire...
 

zydecochris

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
And as for the 32MM both are going to cost in 2023, that PALES in comparison to the 40MM/yr QB's are going to make and the close to $50MM the Dolphins are going to pay Hill. And forget about what they are going to have to pay Chubb next year and Tua the year after. Our cap issues are small compared to theirs. Plus IIRC both the TE contracts end after next season. They can also be extended to lower the 23 cap number if warranted.
Agreed on Fins and their upcoming cap issues. Owner Stephen Ross (excited about the prospect of winning the award for the "worst owner in the NFL" if Dan Snyder is forced to sell) changes his long term plan every week, and the "build through the draft" plan suddenly went out the window and they made bunches of short-term moves like trying to lure Brady (and losing important draft equity as punishment) and then giving giant contracts (as well as giving up more very significant draft equity) to Hill and Chubbs. With the Tua extension on the horizon surely they will be having giant cap issues soon. Certainly Hill as looked great in Miami, and Chubb will doubtlessly contribute also, but the way the Fins suddenly went from "build through the draft" to "LA Rams-style win today and don't think about tomorrow" is going to bite them in the butt hopefully in a couple of years or so.

The Bills look like the best team in football with an excellent future (unfortunately). The Jets (after all of their high draft picks in recent years) are at least building a stronger future team also, although hopefully the special Jets reverse-organizational-magic that is so effective at ruining highly drafted Jets QBs will ruin Wilson also (as early signs point to). In contrast, although Miami is clearly becoming a stronger team, it is with the "win now, to heck with tomorrow" philosophy that hopefully means in a few years they will be in cap hell and changing their weekly "long term" plan yet again. ;).
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Agreed on Fins and their upcoming cap issues. Owner Stephen Ross (excited about the prospect of winning the award for the "worst owner in the NFL" if Dan Snyder is forced to sell) changes his long term plan every week, and the "build through the draft" plan suddenly went out the window and they made bunches of short-term moves like trying to lure Brady (and losing important draft equity as punishment) and then giving giant contracts (as well as giving up more very significant draft equity) to Hill and Chubb...

That award has been retired... by Jimmy Irsay.
 

ashley

Banned
PatsFans.com Supporter
Our very own @ashley1992 confronting Chatham on his take with an even better one. You go girl!


Lol, not sure what the right answer is here....do we want Wynn protecting Mac's blind side, although he has played his best there.

If we had another option at RG now, I'd even consider moving Onwenu to RT, where he's been very good, but then you weaken that guard spot.
 

venecol

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Lol, not sure what the right answer is here....do we want Wynn protecting Mac's blind side, although he has played his best there.

If we had another option at RG now, I'd even consider moving Onwenu to RT, where he's been very good, but then you weaken that guard spot.
Wynn wasn't bad last season at LT (#30 out of 83). He's been a disaster at RT (#73 out of 78).
Brown has also regressed from last season (#33 out of 83) to this one (#46 out of 78).

It was stupid to switch them to begin with and even dumber not to correct it after TC.

It's the simplest solution. I agree with you that Onwenu needs to stay at RG, because Mac's pocket presence sucks, and getting interior pressure will just kill him.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Lol, not sure what the right answer is here....do we want Wynn protecting Mac's blind side, although he has played his best there.

If we had another option at RG now, I'd even consider moving Onwenu to RT, where he's been very good, but then you weaken that guard spot.

Ass-uming Andrews returns to start vs the Jete:

Brown/Wynn - Strange/Wynn - Andrews - Onwenu - Cachoo

Wynn should also have value as the 6th OLman in Jumbo packages.

But as State mentioned elsewhere, the experiment with Wynn as a RT should be officially declared Ovah, especially if Cannon is ever re-activated, though I have my doubts about that one...
 

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
He's finally beginning to attempt to live up to his contract; good for him and for us.

He's still not the one I'd prefer to see opposite Judon on passing downs however... If we had another legit Pass-Rusher we could then move Wise inside with Barmore, with Judon & The Other Pass-Rusher at DE... Now that's cooking with fire...
I think Wise is vastly exceeding his contract. IIRC its a 4 year $22MM deal, so about $5.5MM/yr, but only $10MM is guaranteed. That's not much money at all for a guy who is putting up the stats he is. And we will have him under this team friendly contract for the 23 and 24 seasons when he'll reach the magic age of 30.

BTW- When he got the deal last season, I thought it was a slight overpay. A solid vet who doesn't move the needle, but isn't a liability either. But that was last year. This year he's been a revelation. I sometimes can't believe he's the same guy.

I'd like to see a Barmore/Wise paring on the inside on passing downs and we may have found whatever switch there was to turn on Uche to BE that opposite Judon edge rusher. BTW- Daniel Ekuale has done fairly well as an inside penetrator on pass downs,
 

PScottman

In the Starting Line-Up
Lol, not sure what the right answer is here....do we want Wynn protecting Mac's blind side, although he has played his best there.

If we had another option at RG now, I'd even consider moving Onwenu to RT, where he's been very good, but then you weaken that guard spot.
Isn't the choice stability and continuity more than "talent" right now? If one of the biggest contributors to the initial line instability is change (Wynn to the right, Strange without Andrews) - is then the solution...more changes??

Weren't the statistics showing improvement especially during the two games Mac was out when the line was four fifths stable (with the only low point Wynn's RT play)? Furthermore, without a training camp, and no practice (versus gameplan installation in season) the "results" of last year are in no way guaranteed in making said changes.

Halfway into a season changing the entire line is a recipe for more "on the job training" mistakes. Get Andrews back, likely replace Wynn with Cajuste and build some continuity. I don't see anything resulting from more massive changes other than more poor communication and ultimately protection.
 

NormZauchin

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That award has been retired... by Jimmy Irsay.
If Irsay has retired it, they need to invent a new award, even name it for him - the "Jim Irsay Award for Incompetent and Corrupt Ownership." There are just so many bad owners in this league, most maybe not corrupt, but a large number completely clueless about building and maintaining a winning franchise. I sometimes think that a random guy picked off the street could do better.
 

Toofy

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
We have JUDOn for 2 more years , wise 2 more and barmore 2 years . this means 2024 we will be ready to make a killing as we would also be done with Henry and Jonnu contract. Hopefully Thornton develops . this would mean we need to just get above average QB play from mac/zappe. We could be like eagles in 2024.
 

ashley

Banned
PatsFans.com Supporter
Isn't the choice stability and continuity more than "talent" right now? If one of the biggest contributors to the initial line instability is change (Wynn to the right, Strange without Andrews) - is then the solution...more changes??

Weren't the statistics showing improvement especially during the two games Mac was out when the line was four fifths stable (with the only low point Wynn's RT play)? Furthermore, without a training camp, and no practice (versus gameplan installation in season) the "results" of last year are in no way guaranteed in making said changes.

Halfway into a season changing the entire line is a recipe for more "on the job training" mistakes. Get Andrews back, likely replace Wynn with Cajuste and build some continuity. I don't see anything resulting from more massive changes other than more poor communication and ultimately protection.
Good post PScott- Communication and stability along the O-line are really important. We've been focusing on the O-line all year looking for ways to improve it, but perhaps we need to just have that stability there with the unit. Don't know the answer, but hopefully, we'll see a big improvement during the second half of the year.
 

p8ryts

In the Starting Line-Up
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I think Wise is vastly exceeding his contract. IIRC its a 4 year $22MM deal, so about $5.5MM/yr, but only $10MM is guaranteed. That's not much money at all for a guy who is putting up the stats he is. And we will have him under this team friendly contract for the 23 and 24 seasons when he'll reach the magic age of 30.

BTW- When he got the deal last season, I thought it was a slight overpay. A solid vet who doesn't move the needle, but isn't a liability either. But that was last year. This year he's been a revelation. I sometimes can't believe he's the same guy.

I'd like to see a Barmore/Wise paring on the inside on passing downs and we may have found whatever switch there was to turn on Uche to BE that opposite Judon edge rusher. BTW- Daniel Ekuale has done fairly well as an inside penetrator on pass downs,
Yes, I've been advocating dumping Wise and Bentley. However, both have been doing good this year. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
 

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yes, I've been advocating dumping Wise and Bentley. However, both have been doing good this year. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
You are right on the money on Bentley. I've been questioning him for the last 3 seasons. This year I was hoping adding Wilson and McMillan would make him redundant. But Bentley fights on. He is much better on his fits at the LOS this season and the results have been visible. He has made Wilson a situational player and McMillan invisible.. So much for my brilliance.

He was less effective against Jackson and Fields, but I'm thinking PART of that is how they are scheming against the RPO attack. It's tough now,, but the more you see it, the better defenses will be able to defend it. Like I have said in the past, there is a reason that you don't see the triple option any more. Teams caught up with it. Think about it. Jackson has had GREAT results running Greg Roman's unique offense that was built around his particular skill set, during the REGULAR season. While his 4 years has resulted in just ONE playoff win. Now it looks like the Bears are going to try and duplicate it in Chicago.

Anyways I'm getting way off track here. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a thread on how to deal with the RPO when they have a great running QB. It would be a great discussion start.
 
Last edited:

borg

Pro Bowl Player
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
2022 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Isn't the choice stability and continuity more than "talent" right now?
When there are no viable alternatives on the roster, then sure, why not slap some lipstick on it and call it "stability and continuity"

1668016875441.png
 

Top