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This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

patfanken

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I took a week off after the bears game basically because I didn't want to have to deal with all the Mac/Zappe bu!!sh!t I knew was going to run rampant. Stuff I had been through before, made my opinion known and didn't want to have to repeat them again, and again, and again. As I get into my 'middle age', I find myself growing more and more cranky and less willing to engage in the endless BS that comes with membership in the "fellowship of the miserable".

Listen guys (and gals) there is a reason we LOVE, watch, and support this game we seem to obsess with. Its F#CKING fascinating. As I learned more and more about the game after playing it (when I didn't have much of a clue about the game as a whole) to the couple of decades coaching when I actually grew to understand a bit about the why of what I was asked to do when playing. And after close to 20 years the ONE constant thing I came to realize was how there was always something MORE I could learn about the game. That's because the game is ALWAYS changing and evolving. I think the reason Bill has been so good for so long is that he understands that the coaches who decide that they "know it all" are the ones who eventually go down with "ship" as teams catch up.

For 20 years we heard about the "Patriot Way" and the culture Bill built. But here's the thing. The key element of that culture was building a system that was NOT static. it can adapt and grow as the game went through the INEVITABLE changes the game would make as the years went by. One of Bill's greatest gifts IS that he understood that the game will constantly change and unfold. So he has built a program around being able to change and adapt; be it week to week or year to year.

Just look at what happened this past week. After what was CLEARLY one of the worst performances of the last several of years, the Pats were going to got on the road, against a 5-2 team on a 4 game winning streak, a team that was relatively healthy, while the Pats would be missing key starters on defense and had 8 guys questionable, NOT exactly a recipe for success. Almost sounded like what WE fell for before the Bears game. So the end was near. Jet fans were FINALLY ready for the Pats to replace them as the doormats of the division. And yet.....

So what happened that turned Armageddon into a win against a 5-2 team It wasn't like the Pats looked like the next coming of the 85 Bears on Sunday. The pass D gave up over 350 yds in the air. The OL was positively porous. And yet with less than 2 minutes left the Pats had a 12 point lead. So I ask the class to wonder, just WHAT are the lessons that can be learned from this game? There are many. The first few are obvious, yet sometimes are the most often ignored.

* EVERY team is made up of great athletes taken from only the elite players from the college ranks and thus "on any given Sunday" can beat you.

* Win the TO battle and win the game. Sunday was no different (3-1)

* EVERY week is a completely different entity that has nothing to do with what happened in the past and what will happen in the future. A new and separate week. A new and separate challenge. A new and separate opportunity.

So the battles over what happened in the past. The battle of what the stats show us (or not), become little more than fun facts that we can manipulate to support OUR opinion or belittle someone else's We can decry the fact that Mac had only 194 passing yards. That must mean he sucks. But that mean Josh Allen sucks who had just 20 more passing yds, or Aaron Rodgers sucks because he had just 10 more?.

I mean I like and use stats just like everyone else. But we ALL have to learn that statistical analysis is NOT an absolute. IMHO taking a class in statistics in college should be a REQUIREMENT for graduation because the biggest lesson that can be learned from that class is that how easily stats can be manipulated into telling a narrative that suits a particular position. Now that doesn't mean the adage of "there are lies, big lies, and statistics" is absolute. No far from it. Statistics are very useful INDICATORS. But here we have too many people who want to badger us with stats and rankings like they are ABSOLUTES. If they were then the beauty for the game would lose its luster and the reason to actually PLAY the game, would become moot.

There are about 60-70 offensive plays in every game, so if you figure for every offensive play there is a defensive play, that makes somewhere between 120-40 chances to affect every game and then add about 10 special teams plays that create another 20. So let's say about 140 chances, on both sides of the ball, to effect a game/ And of those 140 opportunities, there are usually around 4 or 5 that would be considered "game changers". The problem is that you NEVER know where or when those plays are going to happen. So while it is very easy to break those plays down AFTER the fact, as players and coaches, EVERY one of those 140 odd opportunities comes with both the risk and potential to be ONE of those plays. As fans it is critical that we UNDERSTAND this and view the game with this lens. I believe if we do this more, our discussions will actually become more interesting AND engaging. JMHO

Moving on to the game itself.

By now most of the game has been dissected and discussed ad nauseam so I'll just add a few of my observations that I thought would be interesting and not redundant. Sorry if any actually ARE redundant.

* The QB- I belong to the BSJ which is worth the $5/mo for its membership, if only during the football season. I disagree with Bedard from time to time, but his weekly film breakdowns are vastly interesting and informative. I wish they were only longer. One thing I find interesting is that as he breaks down a play, so MUCH of it is subject to interpretation. How often he uses the phrase "I think" is telling.

But getting back to the breakdown itself. Bedard sat down to do his breakdown ready to bash Mac for a pretty meh performance, and came away believing that Mac played a much better game than it appeared that "the stats" told us. I recorded the game and went over it again last night, and even though I didn't have the all 22 view vantage point Bedard did; watching it again WAS revealing. (I also enjoyed the Mark Morse and Evan Lazar's rap ups)

So while Mac DID make his share of mistakes, like on his pick. If he had taken just a half step up into the pocket he could have avoided the pick and perhaps made a big play. He clearly was NOT on the same page as Meyers on the pick that wasn't. Whose fault was that? Only the team knows. On the 4th down play that failed, it looked like Meyers screwed up on what Bedard called a pick and roll, that SHOULD have been a TD. But all these things are fixable over time and we have to remember that Mac is only into his 20th odd game. IIRC we were all still laughing at the Bills and their pick of Josh Allen at this stage of his career.

As an observation, I'd like to see Mac under C a bit more. It will make play action passes more effective imo. Our run game IS established now and our current tendencies are in place. This next stretch of games should make that play effective, especially to the TE side.

* the OL- I don't know if the OL just sucks, or if David Andrews is just THAT good that be makes everyone around him so much better.

Cole Strange - Had his worst game of his very short career, with giving up a sack a few pressures and 2 penalties (both of which looked very iffy to me). The first one he looked like he pancaked his guy. His hands were both inside the chest. I have know idea why a flag was thrown, From the TV angle it looked clean. Maybe the all 22 will show a different result.

But the fact remains that Cole, for all his athletic abilities needs to get 20lbs bigger and stronger. I've seen him in great position on a number of blocks get overpowered. Maybe not to affect the play that much negatively, but not in a positive manner either. Now much of the game he was on QWilliams, who is having an all pro year, but STILL it only shows that he has big areas where he needs to grow and OG in this league

Ferrentz - Just not big enough. Overpowered and often out of position. I wouldn't be surprised if Russey gets a shot in the near future.

Wynn - surprisingly effective in his time at LG - but not strong or consistent at the point of attack. Take the deflected pick. He had run his man past the QB well, but didn't FINISH the block so the guy could manage to get his hand on the ball to deflect it into a pick. But it only shows the vagaries of the game. If Mac takes that half step up and the ball is thrown cleanly then a bad play for Wynn becomes a good one. That only proves the point about how interconnected results are in football, and how subjective determining plus and minuses are on individual plays and players

Cannon - wasn't much better. He seems less nimble on his feet than I remember. Is it FINALLY Cajuste time?

Owenu - Looks good to me.

* the receivers

Not a great day either - Meyers had a decent FF day, but was not on the same page with Mac on a couple of key plays as mentioned. Parker lasted one play, Bourne played a lot but never got involved, and then there was Thornton.

Forget about the drop, in my eyes he looked totally lost on his routes like he wasn't exactly sure of what he was supposed to do. He is a super fast guy who looked positively slow. Zero quickness, Zero explosiveness. But what was most disturbing is what I saw on the pick that wasn't. If you watch the replay you see Thornton react to the pick and give chase. You can notice at one point, at around the 40 yd line in Pats territory, Thornton is about 5 yds behind, but instead of seeing that 4.2 speed, be actually started to LOSE ground. What's up with THAT? I'm hoping he just gave up. But on THAT play I saw none of the speed that was the reason we traded UP to get him. He's likely going to get a lot more run while Parker is out. He needs to show me a LOT more. But its early. I know.

Still concerned the that Henry isn't more of a factor, especially in the red zone. I don't know the exact stat but we have to be in the bottom 3 in that category. FIVE field goals??? WTF! We don't have a TE or WR under 6', so why do we suck so much when we get into the opposing team's side of the field.

RB's The best part of our offense. Stevenson is one of the best 3 way backs in the league (running, receiving, and blocking) He will be a LOT of fun to watch over the next 3 or 4 years. And Harris is a lot more than just a 2nd option.

* DL - OUTSTANDING job by them. Both in the run game as well as by providing pressure. Now I know there were only 2 sacks in this game, but for all his faults there is ONE thing you can say about Wilson, is that he IS elusive and hard to get down. That being said, if the main job of the DL is to get the QB "off his spot" and out of rhythm, then the Pats did that in spades for most of the game.

Deatrick Wise CONTINUES to be an impact player and one of the best in the league. Hard to believe this guy was JAG for the first 5 years of his career and then out of the blue he suddenly becomes this monster in his SIXTH year with the team. Only goes to show you how sometimes it just takes time, and that SOME guys get better every year.

BTW- Does LGuy look like he put on 20lbs of fat around the middle this year?

*LB's A lot to like about the guys in the middle all of them had their share of good plays. They did their part in shutting down the run game. They covered fairly well underneath. They Tackled well. No one stood out either as great, or as bad. Solid job.

*DB's. While we missed Duggar on the TE, it was a revelation to see what potential Peppers brings to the equation. The man can be both explosive in the way he runs AND how he hits. He also made a great play on the last onside kick which was REALLY well executed by the Jets kicker. I wouldn't mind seeing more of him in the future.

As for the rest of the DB's it was kind of a mixed game. They often did a great job of coverage, especially around the GL, but it was hard to equate giving up 350+ yds in passing with a great job. 2 negative plays that bothered me. One was the missed tackle by Jack Jones on the REALLY long play that gave the Jets life at the end of the game. Jones SEEMS to be a willing tackler who at least will throw his body at a ball carrier and cut him down. BUT his technique can be horrible as shown by that play. Way too many NFL players never WRAP on a tackle and too many yds are gained because it.

The 2nd play was by a guy I often defend, but on this play he got too smart for his britches. On the Jets 2nd TD the Pats had a perfect call for the 3rd and long. This was another play Bedard broke down. When you looked at it a few times,Miles Bryant tried to jump the under receiver (at about the 4) who was already pretty well covered, and in doing so allowed another guy to come completely open in the back of the endzone, where he SHOULD have been. If he had just kept his ass in the endzone where he belonged the Jets would have had to go to 4th and goal from the 10.

*ST's - Just great, though I'm a bit worried watching Jake Bailey becoming noticeably slower in getting his punts off. I thought he was better at this aspect of his game earlier in the season. Was I the only guy totally impressed by the Jets reverse kick on that last onside kick. I'm only shocked by the fact the guy didn't blow out his knee on the play. Great play by them, great play by Peppers. Between that play and the helicopter ball earlier in the season, there have been lots of innovations coming from that area of Special Teams.

Now its on to the Colts and ANOTHER game against a team with a decent defense and a struggling offense.
 
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upstater1

Hall of Fame Poster
Cole Strange - Had his worst game of his very short career, with giving up a sack a few pressures and 2 penalties (both of which looked very iffy to me). The first one he looked like he pancaked his guy. His hands were both inside the chest. I have know idea why a flag was thrown, From the TV angle it looked clean. Maybe the all 22 will show a different result.
Both of Strange's holding calls came the play immediately after a roughing the passer call against the Jets.

Makeup calls?
 

Hyped

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Thanks for this write up, @patfanken ......great wall of text as usual, LOL.

Yeah, I am in agreement that we are OK with Brown, Andrews, and Onwenu on the line. I think Strange is OK as it was Q. Will man...and I am hoping Cajuste is healthy enough to make Cannon/Wynn elevate their play at RT.

One possibility is to swap Wynn and Brown...Brown can play RT...and Wynn is obviously better at LT. Also, I think Brown/Onweu can open bigger holes on the right side and still pass protect better than Cannon.
 

cupofjoe1962

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Idle thoughts is a scary thought

Just looked at Patscap 2023 & I noticed two of our three highest paid players in 2023 are Johan Smith as our top paid player at $17,405,009 million & third highest paid is going to be Hunter Henry at $15,500,000

That almost 33 million & they are making over 5 million more than every player except Judon.

With Smith & Henry being two of the 3 highest paid players, I don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling for 2023
 

mgteich

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Thanks for this write up, @patfanken ......great wall of text as usual, LOL.

Yeah, I am in agreement that we are OK with Brown, Andrews, and Onwenu on the line. I think Strange is OK as it was Q. Will man...and I am hoping Cajuste is healthy enough to make Cannon/Wynn elevate their play at RT.

One possibility is to swap Wynn and Brown...Brown can play RT...and Wynn is obviously better at LT. Also, I think Brown/Onweu can open bigger holes on the right side and still pass protect better than Cannon.
Before the season, I was looking forward to seeing us run behind Onwenu-Brown.
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Cannon - wasn't much better. He seems less nimble on his feet than I remember.

Lazar: Marcus Cannon allowed a team-high seven QB pressures. His issues in pass protection stem from his declining foot speed. He can't change directions in his pass sets anymore, so he's oversetting outside and getting beat back inside, or vice versa. He's a sixth offensive lineman, downhill gap scheme blocker.
 

upstater1

Hall of Fame Poster
Lazar: Marcus Cannon allowed a team-high seven QB pressures. His issues in pass protection stem from his declining foot speed. He can't change directions in his pass sets anymore, so he's oversetting outside and getting beat back inside, or vice versa. He's a sixth offensive lineman, downhill gap scheme blocker.
Whatever is going on inside Wynn's head has badly weakened us. I've been watching Cannon closely and noticed all of this.
 

PP2

Hall of Fame Poster
So while Mac DID make his share of mistakes, like on his pick. If he had taken just a half step up into the pocket he could have avoided the pick and perhaps made a big play. He clearly was NOT on the same page as Meyers on the pick that wasn't. Whose fault was that? Only the team knows. On the 4th down play that failed, it looked like Meyers screwed up on what Bedard called a pick and roll, that SHOULD have been a TD. But all these things are fixable over time and we have to remember that Mac is only into his 20th odd game. IIRC we were all still laughing at the Bills and their pick of Josh Allen at this stage of his career.

Mac Jones said in the presser that he wanted Meyer to break outside, but Meyer thought he meant inside. A "miscommunication" was how he characterized it.
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Whatever is going on inside Wynn's head has badly weakened us. I've been watching Cannon closely and noticed all of this.

Some players can easily switch from LT to RT; others can't. Wynn apparently can't. So if neither Cannon nor Wynn can play RT effectively, then they need to move some pieces around. Onwenu has played RT in the past, so maybe that's a solution, moving Wynn to guard? Or flip Brown and Wynn?
 

venecol

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Good observations, but saying the Jets were "a team that was relatively healthy," is a stretch when they lost their top O weapon (RB1), their WR1, and best OL man. They've also lost two other starting tackles for the season. It showed, as our D pressured Wilson all game. Still don't understand how he was able to pass for 355 yards.
 

patfanken

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Idle thoughts is a scary thought

Just looked at Patscap 2023 & I noticed two of our three highest paid players in 2023 are Johan Smith as our top paid player at $17,405,009 million & third highest paid is going to be Hunter Henry at $15,500,000

That almost 33 million & they are making over 5 million more than every player except Judon.

With Smith & Henry being two of the 3 highest paid players, I don’t get that warm fuzzy feeling for 2023
Of COURSE you don't. "rolleyes"

What,nothing else to worry about after a win, you need to speculate about POTENTIAL cap issues in a year where we should have a lOT of cap space DESPITE those 2 contracts. Talk about the "fellowship of the miserable" :rolleyes:

As for Henry, most here would believe he's fairly paid, even though he's being underutilized so far this season. Smith looks like a swing and miss thus far, but there is still time left this season.

And as for the 32MM both are going to cost in 2023, that PALES in comparison to the 40MM/yr QB's are going to make and the close to $50MM the Dolphins are going to pay Hill. And forget about what they are going to have to pay Chubb next year and Tua the year after. Our cap issues are small compared to theirs. Plus IIRC both the TE contracts end after next season. They can also be extended to lower the 23 cap number if warranted.
 

patfanken

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Good observations, but saying the Jets were "a team that was relatively healthy," is a stretch when they lost their top O weapon (RB1), their WR1, and best OL man. They've also lost two other starting tackles for the season. It showed, as our D pressured Wilson all game. Still don't understand how he was able to pass for 355 yards.
You ARE correct. I was just going by a report I read before the game that the Jet injury report had one guy out I never heard of and no one was questionable. I forgot about all the guys they have on IR that wouldn't be on that report.
 

DarrylS

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BB is permanently taking up rent in their collective brains and brain trust of the NYJ.. on paper they look better than they played, but as their QB, Zach WIlson, does not look like an NFL QB... with a career QB rating of 71 and 12/16 TD to interception ratio there has been no progress.

The same may be said about Mac Jones, but Zach Wilson failed put the NYJ in a position to win.. both int's were rookie mistakes.

Anyways great post, again, PFK...
 

Thelonious

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
The best testament to the fact that concerns re Mac are valid is the fact that we waste so much time handwringing over his hurt feelings. If we were all confident that he is made of stuff stern enough to make it in the pressure cooker that is a job as an NFL qb, we would not waste time on such silliness, and we would not have to endure the sort of giddy pro-Mac boosterism which abounds here and the panicked dismissal of even the most benign mention of his statistics this year, which indicate - no question - that his play has declined compared to last year.
 

One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
The best testament to the fact that concerns re Mac are valid is the fact that we waste so much time handwringing over his hurt feelings. If we were all confident that he is made of stuff stern enough to make it in the pressure cooker that is a job as an NFL qb, we would not waste time on such silliness, and we would not have to endure the sort of giddy pro-Mac boosterism which abounds here and the panicked dismissal of even the most benign mention of his statistics this year, which indicate - no question - that his play has declined compared to last year.

This is a Content thread about the JETS game. There is a Zappe\Mac thread if you want talk about Mac.
 

venecol

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Lazar: Marcus Cannon allowed a team-high seven QB pressures. His issues in pass protection stem from his declining foot speed. He can't change directions in his pass sets anymore, so he's oversetting outside and getting beat back inside, or vice versa. He's a sixth offensive lineman, downhill gap scheme blocker.
It's incredible how dysfunctional the OL has been this season. You can blame our new OL coach, Patricia for some of this (switching the position of our 2 tackles, which didn't improve either one); but ultimately this is really on Bill for making zero moves during this offseason to shore up the OL from the lack of quality depth. We lost Karras & Mason, we bring in Cannon & try out pizza boy. All of this during the sophomore year of your 1st Rd QB. What a joke.
 

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