Idle thoughts - the rush job.

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betterthanthealternative

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The NE defense is making it look so easy... but let’s not discount the miserable offenses they have played. NE has played the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 12th worst offenses in the league after 5 games.

While not explaining all of it, there has to be some causality in there.
 

Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
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I didn't see the same "statue Brady" others saw yesterday. I saw a 42 year old pocket passer stepping away from multiple sacks but unable to do it every single time, which is reasonable. I also saw him holding the ball because of what I assume is zero separation by receivers. How is any of that his fault?

If anything, I think he's been a little less accurate this season, but imo his pocket presence has been amazing.
 

luuked

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Bingo.

He hasn't looked good against Brown and McLaurin, a journeyman and a rookie. Definitely a concern.

We need Gilmore to be as good as 2018 in the big games down the stretch and playoffs.

He is the best CB in the league.

The issue here is that you don't seem to understand his responsibilities sometimes like the times when he clearly plays to protect against the deep completion and letting them have underneath completions.

You win games by having more points at the end of the game than the other team not by dominating some irrelevant statistical boxes. Make the other team string together successful plays into drives instead of screwing up on bunch plays.
 

borg

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
While not explaining all of it, there has to be some causality in there.
Opposing offenses...
Awful against the NE D
90% as awful vs everyone else’s D.

NE has played against one legit NFL QB... Apple Watch Ben, two starting JAGs, and two backups best equipped to hold clipboards.

Results
NE D vs pathetic QB competition
#1 in points given up....4.1
#1 in INTs
#1 in sacks

Shooting ducks in a barrel would be more challenging

Now let’s pants the preppie from Duke
 

p8ryts

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I didn't see the same "statue Brady" others saw yesterday. I saw a 42 year old pocket passer stepping away from multiple sacks but unable to do it every single time, which is reasonable. I also saw him holding the ball because of what I assume is zero separation by receivers. How is any of that his fault?

If anything, I think he's been a little less accurate this season, but imo his pocket presence has been amazing.
I just think he is bailing more often than I would like. I know he lives to play another down. Has missed some opportunities. Not complaining. I wonder if BB chews him out once in awhile. If its ok with BB its ok with me. Please don't throw those sucky end zone interceptions.
 

Elijah

The Tom Brady Of Not Having A Gf
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I just think he is bailing more often than I would like. I know he lives to play another down. Has missed some opportunities. Not complaining. I wonder if BB chews him out once in awhile. If its ok with BB its ok with me. Please don't throw those sucky end zone interceptions.

Yeah I was gonna mention the redzone picks but since it's only been 2 so far I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. I really don't think there were many positive alternatives to taking the sacks he took, though. Not "living to see another down" is how you end up with more than just the 2 redzone picks on the year.
 

NYCPATS4LIFE

In the Starting Line-Up
Any chance chase will get some consideration for defensive rookie of the year if he continues to get a sack or two. I think he has to get stronger without losing the burst to be more of a consistent pass rusher but the kid has skills.
 

NFLmac

Rookie
I was originally going to just add a few thoughts to the post game thread and not bother tonight, but it just got longer, and longer and longer until I finally said, WTF and threw it together with a few MORE thoughts. Not going to bother organizing it, so this will truly be an IDLE thoughts post.

1. The QB threw for over 350 yds, 3 TD's and had a 66% completion rate. He also threw to 9 different receivers despite losing his #3 WR early to injury. He also created 4 of the 5 sacks because he either held on to the ball too long or failed to side step rushers who should have been easily side stepped. The good news is Brady was pretty good, but isn't in close to being the best we are going to see him this season. AND with Izzo's TD the number of receivers who have caught TD's from Tom Brady has grown to 72. (andbetween Lacosse, Harry, Meyers, and Michel, that number could go as high as 76 this season. Think about THAT one for a while

2. Edelman had 115 yds receiving today on 8 of 9 targets and will never be mentioned this week as a top receiver, just as one "important" to Tom. Gordon improved, and looks like a beast to bring down, and was wide open for a long TD, but...... And the rest of WR's did enough to put up ANOTHER 130 odd yds. There were a few big drops, so clearly room for improvement, which will be needed in a month.

3. In the first half the offense was the very definition of self destruction. Penalites, drops, missed receivers and some just plain bad calls stalled almost every drive. Hard to score when you have TWO 2nd and 20's in one drive get one and get another in the next. Hard to recover from those.

4. HORRIBLE call on 4th down. Call made no sense. It was one of those calls that if another team had done it, we would have made fun of the coach and the call.

5. This his an historically good defense so far, though the competition hasn't been what you would call rigorous except for the Steelers, but this was BY FAR the worst tackling game of the season for the Pats, especially the Secondary. About the ONLY saving grace I can think of for allowing that 64 yd run is to take solace that we can always blame Jordan Richards for it. ;) Unfortunately Bill isn't going to be as forgiving to the real culprits when he puts up THAT play on Monday Morning Nightmares.

6. And if we need something else to complain about we can add the 3 catches and 51 yds that Gilmore gave up to a goddamned rookie. How soon can we get a thread up wondering what's happening to him. Was this the tip of the iceberge? Is he looking for a raise? I bet he hates Steve Bellichick. Good thing I know Volin will get behind all the secrecy and let me know the "facts". :rolleyes:

7. This is actually a REAL observation - This front is NOT going to get many sacks just rushing 4 guys up the field. They are clearly not built that way and haven't been for 20 years They had 6 sacks today and many more serious pressures, and I'd bet that the great majority of them came on twists, replacement stunts, and a few overloads.

BTW- I read last week where the Pats were among the defenses that blitzed the most in the league, over 32% over the first 4 weeks. Today, my guess was, not so much. Though Collins got thru almost untouched on 2 that I saw.

The point is that people should realize that for THIS team and pretty much every Pats for the last 20 years, the rush needs to be schemed for the rush to be effective. Every one who may get a sack knows, it was because of the efforts of the entire front to get them. For example Winovich got his on a twist stunt with the DT who made a beautiful hard inside out rush which created a great lane for Wino to come up inside almost untouched. Shelton had a great inside rush, but he doesn't make the sack without KVN's great outside rush that forced McCoy up inside, etc Think back to the best defensive teams of first decade and they all had one thing in common. They were in the top 5 in sacks, but never had a double digit sacker. (IIRC Vrabel had 10 in 2007 to prove the rule.)

The reason for this mini rant, I guess, is in reaction to Collins' mini sack dance after he got in untouched on a blitz. I'd rather him emulate KVN's celebration which is a LOT more inclusive and recognizes the efforts of ALL the other guys who had a hand in this great play, rather than implying he's happy "getting fed" Not saying Jaime isn't appreciative of his teammates and understands what it takes to create a sack, but all accounts he's a great teammate. It's just that on the surface it seems a bit selfish. Pardon my overreaction, but....... Sacks should be TEAM celebrations.

8. I'm hoping "danny dimes" (no caps yet) poses more of a threat to the Pats Defense, just so we can get a truer sense of what this defense actually is. Hard to think that it really is THIS good. I mean we'd all be thrilled if the defense ONLY allowed 17-20 points a game right? This group have allowed just 2 TD's in FIVE games. They allowed just 7 points today and their per game average went UP. :eek: Stew on that one for a while.

9. Special teams were pretty good overall. No KO returns, very little in the way of punt returns (9yds) and good ones from Gunner (3 for 49 yds, which included another 20 yder that got called back) and Nuggent who only missed one of 6 kicks which was of course an extra point. No less on his first kick as a Patriot. Did you really expect anything else? Got to complain about something? ;)

10 Forgot to mention the OL - I'm betting when Bedard grades the OL I'm thinking the 4 sacks and other pressures won't seem as bad as it did on the screen. A good number is usually under 30% total pressures. IIRC the Pats had been around 22% so far. Pretty sure it will be higher this week, but not horrid (in the 40-50% range).

That's not bad for an OL with a new starting C and a LT 3 days off the bus before he was thrust in a game. I think it will get better because they really need the continuity. Don't underestimate or think it cliche. It's an important aspect to all OL's and one only time will cure.

I'm thinking the numbers will be higher after this game, but not much. Cannon didn't have his finest hour, but Kerrigan and Ionidis are pretty good. Karras gave up the Payne sack but IIRC that was a bit on Brady as well. I really thought it was one that could have been avoided and instead he just "took it like a man". Maybe I'll think differently when I see it up close and over and over again.

But what initially depressed me, and then elated me was this. In the first half the few times we actually ran it, it looked like just more of the same. Then after their first bad drive of the 3rd, they started, not only to put together some strong runs, but to actually create DESIGNED holes that gave Sony a chance to make a move in a hole, and the results showed....and big time. Not as good as I liked when they needed a running first down to close out the game, but still better. Even saw a few good Izzo blocks.

11. Still waiting for a reason how that penalty on Izzo could have been called. Then again, the one on Edelman was equally as bad. One was key in keeping us out of the endzone and the other.....well we managed to do that on our own. ;) Still seemed like too many calls. I'd be interested in finding out just what the Washington OL was complaining about? I saw a couple of holds on both OL's that I thought were pretty tame and could have been let go.

BTW- Hightower, I think, had a great face mask to face mask hit with receiver on a screen that de-cleated the guy. It brought a great warmth to my heart that I thought had been long legislated out by the league. Still I couldn't help wonder where was the flag. It was, strictly speaking a "helmet to helmet" hit, wasn't it?

I'd like to think that it was just TOO beautiful to flag and to do so would be an abuse of the very nature of the game. THAT was the kind game I played or at least tried to play. To do that was the goal of every player EVERY play. What a feeling. What a game by him overall. So nice to see him so impactful this early in the season.

Last time I remember seeing one that good was back when High was a rookie and Vince put his face into a QB's chest and planted him on his back. It was in the endzone IIRC. Of course, Vince was summarily flagged on the play, and my head exploded and my mind hasn't been the same since.

12. Not to say anything good about a guy who is clearly going to be coaching with his brother as soon as this year, but....I appreciated the fact that with close to two minutes left to go and 2 TO's, he chose NOT to try and score a meaningless TD against a prevent D and use the full 8 or nine plays he could have rung out of it, and instead ran 3 running plays to kill the clock and get everyone off the field as healthy as possible.

It might not mean much to some, but I thought it was a class move and worthy of mention. I can't imaging working in that organization for a year, let alone 5. They have a moron "president of operations" making bad move after bad move with an idiot owner who is even a BIGGER moron than he is. Going into this season Washington had a chance to be a competitive team in the NFCE. A good defense that would be complimented by an offense that would run it and not turn it over. Injuries and incompetence now puts this team in the Dolphin' realm of "wait til next year" teams, only they don't have a boat load of draft picks or cap space. Fed Ex must be the safest place in the league for an away crowd. It's a team that needs a league intervention, seriously.

12. A few league thoughts

a. I picked the Cowboys in my pool, and here's what I learned. Never underestimate by how much a good coach can out coach Jason Garret. GB went in there after losing a bad game and WITHOUT their top WR and crushed them. 21 at HOME garbage points made it look respectable.. Now 3-1 so far this week and need JG to guide me to a good 4-1 week.

b. Just saw the score of the Colt game. Now I wish I watched at least some of it. I can't wait to see how the Colts defended the Chiefs and held them to 10 points. That will be a good lesson to learn. Think Bill might want that all-22. ;) If the Bills and Colts are any indications, it looks like good defenses, at least, CAN hold down good offenses this year.

c. Need to remember that last season we were still 3-2 at this point and no one knew which way the direction arrow was pointing. In fact it was after the Pittsburgh game in DECEMBER, which included the loss of the game AND the loss of Gordon, when the "fork" was officially stuck in the Pats as a super bowl contender by the "smart money". With 11 games to go, there is a LONG way to be the best team we can be. It will require relatively good health, the development of good depth for when its needed, and several good bounces along the way for another Championship to happen. You only need ONE bad game in the playoffs to ruin what was a great REGULAR season.

I don't think some people realize just how HARD it is to win a title in the NFL. You can't have a single slip in a one and done format and EVERY team is capable to beat you on a given day. We know that only too well from our own storied losses (2007, 2010, 2011, 2015, and 2017) Games that all COULD have be won with a good break or call that never happened. It's what makes the 6 wins so remarkable. Hell, just being good enough to have that many heartbreaking losses is a tremendous accomplishment if you honestly think about it. In the end, we have LONG long way to go, but you have to admit that doesn't suck to be a Pats fan. ;)

d. Sean McVay doesn't seem as smart as he used to. Now we get to see him do it in some adversity before we start carving his Canton bust. Zoe pointed out that teams have figured out how to defeat his little trick of guiding Goff through the presnap maze. Now teams are making all their moves with 15 seconds on the clock and the light hasn't turned on for the kid since he's never had to read the "book" before on his own, and now he can't.....yet.

Also the last 2 teams I've of any Rams games that were slowing them down, they were using a 6-1 look that was unsurprisingly familiar to those of us who enjoyed the Superbowl defense so much. ;) BTW- was that a strict BB design or was it something they got from Patricia who had some success with the Rams that year. Just curious if anyone remembers

e. One last thought. Watching Jake Bailey the last month, it wasn't hard to see the significant difference between him and Ryan Allen, who was a good punter here for several years. BOOMERS upon boomers almost without exception. I'm thinking we got the probowl Punter right on our own team. But a funny thing happened as I watch the other teams' punters work as well as a few others across the league. There seems to be a number of punters now in the league who are regularly kickng the ball well over 50 yds with 5-6 second hang times.

So I'm wondering if its something more than just stronger legs. Is there a technique or some skill advantage they have over their older counterparts. All I know is that SOMETHING seems to be "in the water, that's cause this plethora of new punters that are just KILLING it to the point Ryan Allen is still unemployed.

And with this final quandary I will bid you all a good night. And suddenly I'm wondering just how rushed this actually was. ;)


Wow! 76 potential TD recipients this year? That’s the Spirit!
 

Kdo5

Pro Bowl Player
I just think he is bailing more often than I would like. I know he lives to play another down. Has missed some opportunities. Not complaining. I wonder if BB chews him out once in awhile. If its ok with BB its ok with me. Please don't throw those sucky end zone interceptions.
Would you rather he bail out or risk injury? We all know Brady has been incredibly durable throughout his career but the fact is that he is 42. We don’t want to see him taking too many hits back there. This is also the Redskins in Week 5. I expect in a bigger game he isn’t bailing out as often.
 

Kdo5

Pro Bowl Player
He is the best CB in the league.

The issue here is that you don't seem to understand his responsibilities sometimes like the times when he clearly plays to protect against the deep completion and letting them have underneath completions.

You win games by having more points at the end of the game than the other team not by dominating some irrelevant statistical boxes. Make the other team string together successful plays into drives instead of screwing up on bunch plays.
Gilmore is excellent, it feels like some people are digging to find something negative. Gilmore plays the best receiver on the other side and he has done a very good job. 3 rec for 50 yards isn’t exactly a receiver stat line that should be used to suggest Gilmore is slipping somehow.

Some idiot was telling me the other day that JC Jackson is better than Gilmore. The idiocy is mind boggling.
 

SBLIII

In the Starting Line-Up
He is the best CB in the league.

The issue here is that you don't seem to understand his responsibilities sometimes like the times when he clearly plays to protect against the deep completion and letting them have underneath completions.

You win games by having more points at the end of the game than the other team not by dominating some irrelevant statistical boxes. Make the other team string together successful plays into drives instead of screwing up on bunch plays.

I'm aware what he is trying to do. Still he got beat when he didn't give cushion. So I don't necessarily buy this 'he doesn't want to get beat over the top and gives them some underneath completions instead'. Besides that last year Gilmore was shutting both down.

So yes, in my opinion he hasn't been great. That said I think he will be before the season is over.
 

Scotty

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Thanks Ken for your words , they can put things into perspective when looking at red zone and Pat's.com it is quick to jump to the wrong conclusions !!
I do get frustrated when we seem to struggle to get a run game going and Brady throwing the ball away. I did think that Newhouse did struggle and one or two flew past him. However once things got going in the second half it looked a lot better. Hopefully we can get off to a better star against the Giants, even though we are at home I do think they will come prepared
 

Hyped

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Nice long write up, Ken!

My thoughts:

a.) Brady took too many hits yesterday. I don't like it.

b.) Loved that we used Izzo, LaCosse, and Jakobi Johnson yesterday in the passing game.

c.) That pick that Brady threw was terrible....throw it away, Tommy!

d.) The defense is really special...yeah...one MISSED tackle....and only 2 touchdowns in 5 games!
 

aluminum seats

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I know there’s an old man yells at clouds component to it, but I don’t like Collins’ celebrations either. I don’t like any celebrations where other guys are just standing there looking at a guy waiting to celebrate with him, just seems lame.
 

scout

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Really liked the stiff arm by Gordon. I want to see the Patriots defense against a top offense. I like what I see, but.....
 

fourhour

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I thought AB84 in Miami was 72 and Izzo was 73?
I saw this last night and I too was concerned so I googled it.

On Oct 4th last year, in a Pat's 38 to 24 victory over the Colts, Tom Brady hit Josh Gordon for his 500th TD pass. Gordon also became the 71st receiver to catch a TD pass from Brady.
 

ALP

Pro Bowl Player
after the patriots play an offense, that offense's rank drops 5 places in the list of 32...
 
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