Who will be traded?

[maineman209]

Guy is not a consistent run stuffer.

Not at 1-tech/2-tech, anyway. It seems to me he may be more optimally used at 3-tech/4-tech, or even 5-tech.

 

[Ring 6]

A 2019 5th + Brown for a guaranteed 2019 3rd (possibly mid-round or higher), versus a very late 3rd-round Comp, or possibly even only a 4th-round Comp if he walks in FA.

That is giving him away for basically nothing when he is the best DT you have.

 

[Kontradiction]

If Richards gets let go to a team we play, we can all be on the other side of something like this and get a good, hearty laugh out of it...

 

[Kontradiction]

Not at 1-tech/2-tech, anyway. It seems to me he may be more optimally used at 3-tech/4-tech, or even 5-tech.

Maybe, but I don't think that'll make (what seems to me) his problem of not being the lowest man go away. Guy's issue has always looked like he lets his man get lower than him and loses leverage against the run. Could be a strength issue or something else.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Have you seen Guy play? We are screwed if he is the #1 off the nose DT. He plays like he is 280.
Valentine hasn’t played football in a year and at best is a Shelton backup.
You can’t trade brown and hope these 2 don’t suck. It would be nuts.

Guy is a 3-4 DE. He was forced to play the inside because Branch went into the tank. He isn't that bad.

Brown had his moments too but I attribute those to fatigue. He played way too much.

 

[jah]

A 2019 5th + Brown for a guaranteed 2019 3rd (possibly mid-round or higher), versus a very late 3rd-round Comp, or possibly even only a 4th-round Comp if he walks in FA.

I wouldn't be surprised if Brown didn't even get paid in free agency and we got only a 6th or 7th.

 

[maineman209]

Maybe, but I don't think that'll make (what seems to me) his problem of not being the lowest man go away. Guy's issue has always looked like he lets his man get lower than him and loses leverage against the run. Could be a strength issue or something else.

Maybe not. It just seems to me that being more of an edge guy (3-4 type) may make that less of an issue while giving him (possibly) more opportunities to get some pressure and help deform the pocket.

When the Pats first acquire Shelton, I was projecting a possible Shelton-Brown, 2-gapping tandem on the interior, at least on early downs, in a 4-man front. "Media" reports seem to suggest that the Pats have preferred Shelton-Guy, but that could still change, if the media reports include a clear understanding of the Pats intent in the first place.

 

[Kontradiction]

Maybe not. It just seems to me that being more of an edge guy (3-4 type) may make that less of an issue while giving him (possibly) more opportunities to get some pressure and help deform the pocket.

When the Pats first acquire Shelton, I was projecting a possible Shelton-Brown, 2-gapping tandem on the interior, at least on early downs, in a 4-man front. "Media" reports seem to suggest that the Pats have preferred Shelton-Guy, but that could still change, if the media reports include a clear understanding of the Pats intent in the first place.

I think Guy might be a serviceable DE in the 34 but not much more than that. He would be sort of like Gerard Warren in 2010-2011. I do agree that he needs to be a 3/4-tech guy, though. The 1-techs need to be Valentine and Shelton.

 

[Ring 6]

Guy is a 3-4 DE. He was forced to play the inside because Branch went into the tank. He isn't that bad.

Brown had his moments too but I attribute those to fatigue. He played way too much.

We don’t play a 34. Guy would be playing Dt in a nickel base 4 man front as the starter if you dump brown. He is terrible in that role. You would be putting him right back into it.
Brown is a much better run defender. It would be a disaster to the run d to trade him any way you slice it.

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe not. It just seems to me that being more of an edge guy (3-4 type) may make that less of an issue while giving him (possibly) more opportunities to get some pressure and help deform the pocket.

When the Pats first acquire Shelton, I was projecting a possible Shelton-Brown, 2-gapping tandem on the interior, at least on early downs, in a 4-man front. "Media" reports seem to suggest that the Pats have preferred Shelton-Guy, but that could still change, if the media reports include a clear understanding of the Pats intent in the first place.

I think those reports were early on when Brown was running with the 2s due to coming off an injury.
I will be shocked beyond belief and very worried if Guy is next to Shelton on early downs in nickel base except as a back up.

 

[patriot1136]

ok not to sound too stupid, but can someone explain a 1-tech, 2 tech, etc. ?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

ok not to sound too stupid, but can someone explain a 1-tech, 2 tech, etc. ?

It’s about where the DLinemen are lined up in relation to the center. Zero tech- across from the center. The 1 tech will be lined up on the outside shoulder of the center, 2 tech is straight across from the guard, 3 is the outside shoulder of the guard, 4 is straight across from the tackle, 5 is outside shoulder of the tackle.

 

[Kontradiction]

ok not to sound too stupid, but can someone explain a 1-tech, 2 tech, etc. ?

0-tech is the nose. 1-tech is between the center and the guard. 2-tech is straight up on the guard. Take it from there.

 

[p8ryts]

All the contract ending guys with value have a shot. I'm guessing none but if I had to pick one I'd say Brown. I expect Bill to keep three vet CB (so Rowe stays) and Wynn hasn't played enough Guard in preseason to move Mason.

I'm not excited about trading Brown unless BB likes Valentine better. I look for Marcus Cannon to go if Wynn can play RT. He has had value one year and is hurt to often. Allen is a possibility if Izzo can replace his blocking ability. Trey Flowers, one of my favorite players but again can't stay on the field.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We don’t play a 34. Guy would be playing Dt in a nickel base 4 man front as the starter if you dump brown. He is terrible in that role. You would be putting him right back into it.

They certainly aren't a pure 3-4 D like they were but I think it's debatable to say they don't play it. Check this out. In this set you have 3 DTs (Guy DE, Malcom NT and Francois DE. Here Guy is playing 3 tech across the RG/RT. To his left is Flowers who is a DE but you could argue he is playing OLB barely shaded to the outside across the TE. To Francois's right is Harrison who is a LB. Behind the DTs are 2 players with a "5" so I assume they are LBs.

Brown is a much better run defender. It would be a disaster to the run d to trade him any way you slice it.

Of course Brown is a better run defender. I didn't say he wasn't but to say Guy sucks vs the run is not accurate.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I'm not excited about trading Brown unless BB likes Valentine better. I look for Marcus Cannon to go if Wynn can play RT. He has had value one year and is hurt to often. Allen is a possibility if Izzo can replace his blocking ability. Trey Flowers, one of my favorite players but again can't stay on the field.

Last 2 seasons flowers has played 30 of 32 games, and all 6 playoff games.

 

[Ring 6]

They certainly aren't a pure 3-4 D like they were but I think it's debatable to say they don't play it. Check this out. In this set you have 3 DTs (Guy DE, Malcom NT and Francois DE. Here Guy is playing 3 tech across the RG/RT. To his left is Flowers who is a DE but you could argue he is playing OLB barely shaded to the outside across the TE. To Francois's right is Harrison who is a LB. Behind the DTs are 2 players with a "5" so I assume they are LBs.





Of course Brown is a better run defender. I didn't say he wasn't but to say Guy sucks vs the run is not accurate.

That’s a 4 man front shifted to strength.
Can’t tell because everyone isn’t in the picture but Harrison is the only LB. There is a Sb in the box. Looks like 4 DL nickel. Nothing like a 34.

And yes guy is awful against the run, especially lined up inside the T.

 

[luuked]

I dont see any reason to trade any of the DTs to be honest. Sometimes you just let the contract end and move on at that point instead of trying to optimize a return. Hell I'd rather have depth for a year than a fifth or fourth round pick.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That’s a 4 man front shifted to strength.
Can’t tell because everyone isn’t in the picture but Harrison is the only LB. There is a Sb in the box. Looks like 4 DL nickel. Nothing like a 34.

And yes guy is awful against the run, especially lined up inside the T.

There are two #50s behind the line. Looked like Roberts and M Flowers. 2 CBs and I assume Harmon is way back there.

 

[Ring 6]

There are two #50s behind the line. Looked like Roberts and M Flowers. 2 CBs and I assume Harmon is way back there.

The picture you posted had 4 DL, Harrison and 3 DBs. I see no 50s.