Who Might Be Sent To IR

[jah]

While I don't disagree with you at all, just last year the Pats lost what was at the beginning of camp their #1 CB (Bodden, IR), #2 (Butler, ineffectiveness), #3 (Wilhite, after week 8) and #5 (Wheatley, traded). The two starters were, at the beginning of training camp, their #4 CB (McCourty) and their #6 CB (Arrington), who was presumed by many to not make the 53-man roster.

I'm not trying to downplay the difficulty the Pats would have if they lost those two; just wanted to point out that the team has overcome a similar challenge as recently as just last season.

It wasn't nearly as bad as you say it was last preseason. McCourty was never projected behind Wilhite, and almost everyone had Arrington sticking on the roster as the 5th CB/ST ace. That being said, I am very impressed with how Arrington rose from a ST only player to a starter (although it was only because of injuries). He wasn't terrible, and that's all you could ask for.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The thing is if the Pats are that convinced that Yeatman is a better option than Smith, they may not be overly concerned about losing Smith. Sure, they could put Smith on IR to prevent losing him, but then next year unless there is an injury to one of the others they once again have a roster decision (cut) to make at TE.

... or the possibility of a trade if Smith shows something in camp. IR would make the most sense for Smith. We know Belichick has used IR and PUP strategically in the past and in a year with a shortened offseason when rookies had limited time in the first place I'd expect to see IR have a few rookies with potential take a red shirt season.

 

[patchick]

... or the possibility of a trade if Smith shows something in camp. IR would make the most sense for Smith. We know Belichick has used IR and PUP strategically in the past and in a year with a shortened offseason when rookies had limited time in the first place I'd expect to see IR have a few rookies with potential take a red shirt season.

We do? Can you name some players who would have missed the roster except for a strategic last-minute IR, then made the roster the next year?

IMO, PUP is by its nature strategic. IR is by its nature not.

 

[Ring 6]

It wasn't nearly as bad as you say it was last preseason. McCourty was never projected behind Wilhite, and almost everyone had Arrington sticking on the roster as the 5th CB/ST ace. That being said, I am very impressed with how Arrington rose from a ST only player to a starter (although it was only because of injuries). He wasn't terrible, and that's all you could ask for.

I have to disagree. There were heated arguments on this board that the best McCourty could hope for was to try to take over the nickel spot by mid season .

 

[spacecrime]

??

If we put them on IR, we still have rights to these players, don't we?

Not if we try to IR them, unless I totally misunderstand the rules.

If you IR a vested veteran during training camp (who has time enough to be a UFA), he goes right to IR.

Before unvested players go on IR from training camp, they must be waived-injured, and are subject to waivers before going on IR. They only way to avoid this is to keep Brace on the 53 man roster for a week, then IR him when he can go directly to IR.

The purpose of this rule is to prevent teams from stashing rookies without impacting theier 53 man roster, which of course is exactly what you are suggesting.

 

[spacecrime]

They shouldn't have to clear waivers for the final cutdown, I believe that they only need to clear waivers prior to (the final cutdown date), after that they may go directly to IR.

I'm not sure I understand your post, but they have to clear waivers at the time they are cut.

Last year Denver tried to IR their ace STer Josh Barrett on August 5. BB claimed Barrett off waivers, kept him until he made the 53, then IRed him.

Pissed off Denver.

 

[jah]

I'm not sure I understand your post, but they have to clear waivers at the time they are cut.

Last year Denver tried to IR their ace STer Josh Barrett on August 5. BB claimed Barrett off waivers, kept him until he made the 53, then IRed him.

Pissed off Denver.

That's just not true at all. Barrett never made the 2010 53. He was put on IR on August 31 and final cuts were on September 4.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I'm not sure I understand your post, but they have to clear waivers at the time they are cut.

Last year Denver tried to IR their ace STer Josh Barrett on August 5. BB claimed Barrett off waivers, kept him until he made the 53, then IRed him.

Pissed off Denver.

That's just not true at all. Barrett never made the 2010 53. He was put on IR on August 31 and final cuts were on September 4.

Waivers are only required to IR a player prior to the 75 cutdown day. Denver tried to IR him on August 5th, at that time waivers were required to put him on IR. On August 31st (the cutdown to 75) he was sent to IR without having to go through waivers by the Patriots. If Denver had waited until August 31, he would not have been subject to waivers.

 

[spacecrime]

That's just not true at all. Barrett never made the 2010 53. He was put on IR on August 31 and final cuts were on September 4.

Denver waived him much earlier than the 31st, maybe the first week of training camp.

not sure of the cutoff dates and too tired to look it up.

the orginal question was can we IR a player without his passing through waivers, and the short answer is that it depends on vested status and when he is waived during the season or during training camp (I think the deadline is the 53 man roster but could be the 75 (80 this year) man roster.

AFAIK, anyway. I could be totally wrong (though I don't think so)

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Denver waived him much earlier than the 31st, maybe the first week of training camp.

not sure of the cutoff dates and too tired to look it up.

the orginal question was can we IR a player without his passing through waivers, and the short answer is that it depends on vested status and when he is waived during the season or during training camp (I think the deadline is the 53 man roster but could be the 75 (80 this year) man roster.

AFAIK, anyway. I could be totally wrong (though I don't think so)

A closer look at Barrett claim - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

NFL rules require that injured players who are not vested veterans must first pass through waivers before being placed on the injured reserve list prior to the 75-man roster cut-down date; this year, that date is August 31. In NFL terms, a vested veteran is a player with four or more credited seasons. Barrett, drafted in 2008, has only two such seasons.

Teams also have the option of moving a player to injured reserve and still having him count against the 80-man roster until the 75-man cut-down date, or keeping the injured player on their active list until that date. In the case of the Broncos, they chose to expose Barrett to waivers.

 

[TheSolderKing]

are bodden and arrington really hurting badly?

 

[supafly]

are bodden and arrington really hurting badly?

Rumors are that they are not hurt too badly SK.

At least via twitter etc. I believe that there was some positive Bodden talk before the game last night, and Reiss reported that the Arrington injury did not appear to be of a "long term."

I believe that we will definitely see one or both of them in the opener next Monday in MIA.

 

[supafly]

if bodden is or goes on ir, i call that a epic fail..... bodden is a huge key to the d this season...

Do not think that Bodden going to IR (again) is even a remote possibility. In an absolute worst case scenario, he'd simply be PUP'ed (as Sciz pointed out, Bodden has practiced this yr, so that is not a possibility. I forgot that he had practiced earlier in TC) Even that doesn't seem likely, but I guess we'll find out soon enough!

I agree that our CB's are a vital part of this yr's defense, but the same could probably be said just about every yr. It would be a shame though this yr, due to the hype and potential of the 2 starters.

I'm thinking Bodden is okay, even if he doesn't play next Mon (which we have no idea at this point), I don't think he'd miss more than a couple-few games.

 

[Sciz]

Do not think that Bodden going to IR (again) is even a remote possibility. In an absolute worst case scenario, he'd simply be PUP'ed. Even that doesn't seem likely, but I guess we'll find out soon enough!

Once a player has practiced, he is no longer eligible for PUP.

 

[supafly]

Once a player has practiced, he is no longer eligible for PUP.

Ah, rookie mistake. How embarrassing. I absolutely forgot that Bodden had practiced earlier.

Apologies...I certainly know the rule, just forgot that he had indeed practiced.

Well, my theory remains the same, I believe that if he is going to miss any time, it will not be significant. Bodden has a roster spot on the 53, no doubt.

No way in hell he's getting IR'ed again two yrs in a row.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Wasn't the waiver claim for Barrett last season, a form of retaliation against Josh for claiming a player of a team that was coached by a Parcells disciple since I believe Josh claimed a player that was IR'd/waived by BB?

I know there are the unspoken/hidden rules within the former Parcells coaches including one in which a Parcells coach can not claim another player on the waiver wire unless they had permission from the team HC who IR'd/waived him?

 

[Haley]

At exactly what point in time do we find out who is on the IR list? Does this happen as a result of paring down to the 53, slowly over the course of this next week or just before the first regular season game?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

We should know today relative to week 1 as far as guys the really don't believe will be able to come back in a reasonable timeframe or don't represent enough value even if they could to tie up a roster spot. So occasionally the decision is postponed until something forces their hand or pending locating someone else viable to add to the roster. Kind of depends on what kind of situation you are facing, a player who likely won't be ready for x number or weeks may be carried depending on value until someone emerges who can take that place or a need pressing arises elsewhere. They do have the added benefit of the 46 man gameday active this season without being forced to waste that spot on a 3rd QB. I think Mallett will ride the pine as a gameday inactive all season as a result.

It is also worth noting, players and agents have some say in whether or not a player is IR'd. Guys who think they can get back on the field at some point often want the opportunity to as opposed to the free ride that takes them out of sight and mind... So the list is never quite the slam dunk hiding place fans often presume it to be...

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Ron Brace is such a bust.

 

[aluminum seats]

As others have said, the idea that losing Bodden and Arrington for the year would be OK is nuts. Would be a huge blow.

Having said that, I think they'll both be OK.