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Another strong performance by the defense leads to points and played a key role as the Patriots improved to 6-0 Thursday night.

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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I LOVE the 1pm starts. It means I'm done with this early....and that's important as you age. ;)

    1. I'll start with what I don't like about this game.

    a. It is very impressive that Brady threw multiple completions to SEVEN different receivers. That is called spreading the ball around. But what I DIDN'T like was that Brady had 5 targets to Gordon which produced only 2 catches and EIGHT targets to AB to produce 4 catches. On Brady's OTHER 14 receptions to 5 different receivers, were on 15 targets.

    I'm sorry, but the offense would have been a bit better and more consistent IF Brady hadn't FORCED balls to AB and Josh. Because on most of those those 7 misses, Tom was going to that guy REGARDLESS of what the the other guys were doing. Call it nitpicking if you want, but eventually the Pats are going to go against stiffer competition and those 7 opportunities might be needed.


    b. For the 2nd straight game I saw Shaq Mason get walked back into Brady on a couple of bull rushes. He's now one of only 2 starter left from that great OL last season, and we need him to play like he's being paid.. That was disturbing.

    c. Clearly any team having Cunningham and Newhouse as your OT's is likely to have OL problems. We ran the ball "ok", but that's all, and if you are looking for a reason, just look at the OL. I loved that Lacosse had 2 nice catches, but as a blocker, not so much. The fact that Cannon was in Miami trying to get on the field is good news. He'll be back within 2 weeks, and maybe even next week.

    Newhouse did OK, I guess for a guy who was signed on Wednesday. But I could say the best thing he did was not get Brady killed. but it wasn't pretty. Over the next 2 weeks the Pats will face 2 very good DL's. We need Cannon and Wynn back....and soon. (though Newhouse did get hosed one of those holds)

    d. I was FURIOUS with those 2 OPI's that were called. I was wrong. The key in cailling that play is did the receiver INITIATE contact. Upon further review they did. That doesn't make Fouts any less an IDIOT, as he tried to say, "if a receiver forces a defender to go around him, its OPI" :eek:

    e. Gotskowski manned up and said he sucked, though I thought the hold on the first FG was sketchy. There really isn't any excuse to miss 2 extra points. But when you are a career 85% FG kicker, you can expect improvement....and I certainly don't want to see anyone else coming in unless its the guy from the Ravens

    2. This is what I LIKED

    a. Brady is throwing the ball really well so far, and its scary to think that this offense is in its embryonic stage right now.

    b. while we wallow in the morass of the OL depth, the RB depth is what's keeping DHarris on the inactive list. This is the best Rex has looked since he's been here. Sony was better than last week (hard no to be), but the OL wasn't helping. 126 yds is a nice day for a run game that is alos in its embryonic stage. It's going to be hard to find JWhite catches with this arsenal. Clearly a first world problem.

    c. Yeah, AB is good. Didn't think he'd be that impactful after just 3 practices. In prior posts in other threads I questioned his intelligence. Well I still question his intelligence, but clearly his football IQ is right up there. He really did well.

    d. Nice to see Matt Lacosse get a few catches. His first one was a great catch of a bad throw, so the catching skill was finally shown. Looks like he twisted his bad ankle again early in game, but persevered. Nice to see some production there.

    e. Not only three catches by Dorsett, but 3 GREAT catches. Just adds to the depth at the position and makes me wonder why we took a WR in the first round. ;) BTW- nice day at the office for Jules as well. WHAT WR problem.

    f. Adam Butler had a career game with 2 sacks, but the DLman I came away most impressed with was Danny Shelton. He constantly pushed the pocket on pass rushes and he and Guy shut the middle down flat. There was nothing there for the Phins. Clearly winning the most improved award this season.

    g. I said early on in TC, that Jaime Collins would be the most impactful player on D this season. He's on track for the Mr September award. ;) What a great under the radar pick up for pennies on the dollar. The downside is it will be hard to watch him playing for another team next season.

    e. The rest of the LB's all played well. Simon had a couple more pass blocks and Winovich flashed as well. BTW- if get a chance check out Michael Bennett's sack. What a motor on a 34 year old player. He WORKED for that sack.

    f. And then there's the secondary. One would be hard pressed to find a DB who had a better preseason than JWilliams. He covered well, he tackled even better and not only against scrubs, but starters as well. Yet he has been relegated to the inactive list again simply because the Pats secondary is just THAT good.

    Hopefully Chung's injury was just the nut sack contusion that I thought it was, but the secondary was once again pretty much flawless. JJones is proving exactly why the Pats extended him. He's been THAT good.

    3. General thoughts

    a. . I thought Rosen came in and through several good passes before he started getting the sh!t knocked out of him. I thought he was done for the year when they showed the replay of that hit. His recovery was almost Bruschi-like in its Gumbyness.

    b. What a screwed up career. IIRC he had 4 different OC's in his time in college and he's been with 2 dumpster fires in his first 2 years in the NFL. My first reaction was he might be better off getting IRed instead of having to deal with what he's going to have to deal with in Miami. Who know what guys like David Carr might have been if he hadn't been killed his first couple of years. And what we might lose if Dashawn Watson isn't saved from a half dozen sacks each week.

    c.Speaking of QB's. Lamar Jackson is having one hell of start to the season. He will be a real test when we play them. A great story. There was a lot of talk that we might take him at 32 that year, remember.

    d.Dan Fouts needs to retire and fast. He was not only his usual anti-pats self, he was inaccurate in his remarks time after time, misnaming players, and not knowing the rules.

    e And for those who are interested, I'm 3-1 and have the Browns on Monday....and Damned you Mike Vrabel, I need just one more TD! ;)

    f. We all thought this draft class was going to be one of the better ones of the last few years. Here's where we are right now. Round 1 Harry - IR. Round 2 Williams 2 inactives. Round 3 Winovich, back up LB but contributing 3rd round Harris 2 inactives Third round Cajusty - NFI Fourth round Frodholt IR Fourth round Stidham. Back up QB 5th round Cowart - inactive/one tackle 5th round Bailey the punter. UDFA Meyers, inactive UDFA Gunner. PR

    So thus far the ONLY guy who is regularly contributing to the offense or defense is Winovich along with Bailey and Gunner on ST's But here's the thing. This might ACTUALLY be the best draft class we've had in a while. That's how good this team is.

    g. I think the REAL reason that Brady threw the ball 3 times in that last drive had more to do with the fact that the offense had had the ball for just one play in the 4th quarter, and Brady simply wanted the reps. Another thought it was Bill who tried to run it out and saw the team fumble it. So if they can't run it, they'll throw it. I don't think it was "running it up". That concept doesn't exist in professional sports

    So its on to Jets 1.0 where we will see a much better defense, and a slightly better offense. At least the run defense will get a real test. I hope to god the AB thread will only grow another 20 pages or so. I'm pretty nothing that we don't know already will pop up. But be prepared to keep seeing her side being highlighted with little in the way an opposing view being told. It is what it is.
     
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  2. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Of course Brady's completion % to Brown and Gordon will be lower, when he's throwing much deeper and tougher throws to them, than short slants or screens to the rest. And mark my words, Gordon and AB open up the underneath game for those other guys. AB is the best route runner in the NFL, so Brady and him are only going to develop that much more chemistry going forward. Gordon's routes are essential to opening up the easy underneath throws, not to mention he can catch balls in heavy traffic with his strength.
     
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  3. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He did force feed Brown but I thought it was a obvious case of trying to get on the same page while playing a terrible team. Essentially extended practice time. If there was a game for it, it was this one.

    I'm sure we'll get #'s but it looked lile we played exclusively from 21/11 personnel. If our OL situation gets straightened out this is one of the more scarier offenses ever. Again OL has to get worked out but once we get on the same page there will be no stopping that side of the ball.

    JJ made a few more really nice plays again this week. Made a point saying it last week but it deserves repeating. Our DBs are easily some of the more disciplined in the game. They play the eyes of their man as good as any good to a man. They were so on point today.

    Agreed on Shelton. He's an North/South player. In trouble going laterally but get him on certain d/d & he's a factor.

    I thought Thuney was our best OL but definitely have to go back for that.

    Last week & this week we've seen HT, Winovich, Bennett, Simon all on the field at the same time during obvious passing downs. We're definitely looking & building along the DL. Every year as we get further along we see the real defense come out. It looks like we're a bit ahead of schedule bc we basically returned the same group. Very excited going foward.

    Again the OL is everything. Can't be understated. This looks like as good a defense as Bill has had. Brady is still playing at a very high level & has an all star group around him in WRs/RBs.
     
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  4. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog In the Starting Line-Up

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    OT - Nut Sack Contusion would make a great name for a rock band :D
     
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  5. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Not sure if it was tongue-in-cheek, but are you really wondering why they took a wide receiver in the first round? This is a group that has a really high ceiling, but it’s also a group that could be essentially gone within a year. Absolutely the right idea to feed the wide receiver pipeline.
     
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  6. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But that's not what happened. Only one pass thrown to him would be considered "deep".
     
  7. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    not just deep. Brady makes much tougher longer throws to those guys than the easy dump offs to White and Burkhead. Unless you think Phillip Dorsett wasn't targeted enough over hall of famer Antonio Brown
     
  8. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Pro Bowl Player

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Antonio Brown is the best WR in the nfl, throw to him all you want.
     
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  10. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Love 3F. Good insight.

     
  11. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ken does not like elite Wide Receivers. He's made it abundantly clear it's the most overrated position and we should never spend first round capital on the position. Every week now, he takes digs at "Elite" Wrs and how they are nothing but team distracting "primadonnas" while he praises the "Hard working blue collar" lineman.
     
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  12. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

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    I’m only worried about the health of the O-line. Injuries are the only way this team doesn’t win a Super Bowl.
     
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  13. Lavictoire

    Lavictoire Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Patfanken wrote:
    “d. I was FURIOUS with those 2 OPI's that were called. I was wrong. The key in cailling that play is did the receiver INITIATE contact. Upon further review they did. That doesn't make Fouts any less an IDIOT, as he tried to say, "if a receiver forces a defender to go around him, its OPI" :eek:

    I think you are thinking of Fouts discussing the pick play. Gordon ran into a defender on a pick play prompting the flag. Fouts was saying he should know better and just get in the way of the defender forcing him to hesitate or go around him. Oh, and told you so about Ghost.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First thread I look for after every game, excellent synopsis of what we saw yesterday..

    IMO football should be played on Sunday and the late game should start no later than 7:00 PM....

    They were playing a crappy team with a crappy defense, imagine this line against a powerhouse.. Wynn went down with a foot injury, lets see how that develops.. but this area of the team is very concerning right now.. yesterday the pats played without Andrews, Cannon and for the most part Wynn.. that his a huge loss..

    This all has to do with the excellent draft class, remember the brouhaha when they traded Duke Dawson to Denver?? That second round draft pick was squeezed out by the Pats talent. Then the predictable whining and gnashing of teeth about how BB does not know how to draft and the rest of the BS.. this team is that good where they have to creatively find ways to hide players on their roster. With the O line woes, what will that mean now?? Cunningham and Newsome were hardly impressive against Miami, so what do they do?? Bring in a couple of more O lineman?? I suppose it is better to work this stuff out early rather than late..

    One thing for sure they cannot allow #12 to take a beating like he did yesterday ..
     
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  15. PF_SU

    PF_SU Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Didn't mind that Brady targeted Brown 8 times. Important to get the chemistry up to speed. And one of the 4 incompletions should have been a surefire TD but Brady just threw a bad ball. If that one had been completed AB's line would've read 5-8 catches, 66 yards and 2 TDs. Don't think anybody should mind that.
     
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  16. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    I think Tom takes what the defense gives him and if you get AB in iso on a corner like Wiltz or Rowe you will hammer that mismatch. I get what you are saying but you have to see it through the prism of what the matchups were.

    It is early in the season and conditioning is not fully there yet. If this happens in November or December it would be maybe something to worry about. But him getting walked back on 2 (!!) snaps in 2 games in September barely registers for me.

    He is still hobbled and not healthy yet. But either way think of him more of what the ceiling of Hollister could have been and not as someone who will give you blocking and catching like Gronk.

    What is the great story here ? A first round QB finally learning how to throw the ball at least competently ? What would be impressive is if he can keep this up over the season. Right now it still looks like a lot of smokes and mirrors to me.

    Teams have now 2 weeks of game tape they will start to test him according to that soon and we shall see if he can respond.

    I agree. I think this was one of the best draft classes in a long time and the team is stacked enough to the point where they don't even have to contribute yet.

    I thought BB more or less clearly said what happened. 60 minutes of football. The Miami Miracle will be brought up again and again this year to keep the team focused. In retrospect it was a very good thing to happen as BB can just keep milking it in meetings and whatnot.
     
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  17. luuked

    luuked Pro Bowl Player

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    The thing is that he is not wrong with the bigger point about elite WR being overrated relative to their cap hits.

    We have AB on a 5M cap charge for this year (with another 4M dead cap next year). Imagine if this was actually a market deal (i.e. 15-17M) and then take the difference and start subtracting starters and depth pieces from the defense, offense and ST to make up for it.

    Then ask yourself is what AB gives the offense really worth what we would lose in other places to afford the contract ? There are valid views to both sides of this and it is a conversation worth having.

    Don't let others bait you with this "prima donna", "diva" ******** because that is just a biased, pointless waste of time for everyone involved.
     
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  18. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Lots of great material here, but I'll just chime in on a couple topics
    Did anyone feel, coming into this game and probably the next, that we'd be facing serious NFL competition? I'm ok with Brady working some live reps with AB and never hurts to add Gordon to the mix.

    And it never bothers me to keep hearing how Brady thought the Offense was in trouble because they couldn't get separation while practicing against our D.

    Dorsett, this year, has been absolutely amazing. I know they kept him on when it seemed like he was WR 4/5, but his understanding and/or Brady's comfort with him has "grown 3 sizes" this year. If this is what we will see from Dorsett this year, how do you stop the WRs?

    And, is this first time, perhaps in the Brady era, where we had a 4 WR set and you felt ALL the WRs were pretty high quality (within or without the system)?


    Final thought, Why does Dan Fouts have a job? How can anyone with such a prime time gig be so offal (not a misspelling, but you get the idea) at his job? There has to be people with better insight, knowledge of the game - and rules, who could offer insightful commentary. If you dubbed over his voice with the wha-wha sound of a charlie brown teacher, the commentary would be improved. His only saving grace is, he's matched up with a guy who can't even pronounce his first name right and it's a 3 letter name :).
     
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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  19. borg

    borg PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    3 questions

    1) Is it time to dial up the Redskins and talk Trent Williams?
    2) What will it take to get a trade done?
    3) With AB on board, can NE find enough cap space to fit Williams?

    ——————-

    17 potential games ahead and the OL is a ticking time bomb
    ——————————
    Dorsett has become the WR version of James White...... Mr Dependable..... What hands!
    ——————————-
    In my eyes, Sony’s lack of production has everything to do with a discombobulated OL.
    That being said, Sony has 0 catches in 2 weeks and his presence in the backfield gives defenses a decent clue of the play call.
    Burkhead keeps defenses more honest
    ———————
    Mentioned yesterday, the Pats D is loaded with smart/ quality vets..... perhaps their most seasoned group since 2001.... and their output has been spectacular.
    ———————-
    If NE can ever get their running game in order, Brady’s play action will be in unstoppable. It almost already is.
    ———————
    With Dorsett and now AB, Edelman is a giant
    ————————-
    Quite a stat offered by the crappy announcers....20 no TE sets in game 1 for NE vs 25 no TE sets in 16 games last year.
    There’s a reason BB has been scouring rehab clinics, infirmaries, and civil courts to dislodge premium WR talent in the past 12 months and it has all been about preparing for a Gronk-less future.
    ——————
    Yesterday’s game was a joyless experience except for the D TDs. Playing Miami is like playing a practice squad that only had one night to look at the playbook.
    Tanking/blowing up the roster sounded great to management/ownership over the summer but displaying 16 weeks of disfunction will ruin Flores’ credibility long term. At some point this season, Miami will have to show a tiny amount of competence or Flores will be a one year placeholder
     
  20. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly NFL Picks Winner

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    [​IMG]
     
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