Who I want and don't want in the HoF

[Actual Pats Fan]

The 70's Raiders were the team I hated the most: image, the Holy Roller play, and the hit on Darryl Stingley.

Having said all that, I think there has been an anti-Raider bias in the HoF. It was only a year or two ago the greatest punter of all time, Ray Guy was inducted. I get the arguments special teams are not on the field as much as the other guys, etc, etc, but Ray Guy was overdue. I think being a Raider factored into that delay.

There were some damn good players on the 70's Raiders-but the same can be said of countless other talented teams who never even appeared in a Super Bowl.

One of the least surprising things to possibly be revealed at some point in history would be the discovery that the assignment of Dreith's crew to the 12/18/76 fiasco in Oakland was not a coincidence. Subsequent games over the next decade revealed the guy himself to be a train wreck; and all the little corporate pieces were in place for the Raiders' crowning glory: injury-riddled Steelers, NBC with Curt Gowdy and John Brodie, practically a home game in Pasadena, etc.

The Patriots were not supposed to screw all that up by being better, the best in the league.

 

[Schmo]

Personally not a huge fan of his, but TO should be a first ballot. 2nd all time receiving yards behind Rice, more than Moss in the same amount of years. Love him or hate him, he made a relatively huge impact on the game (on and off the field).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Are we talking about a different Joe Namath?

I'm talking about the one who had a losing career record, only made the playoffs twice, one being a one and done (yes he never won a playoff game outside of 1968) and had a 173/220 TD/Ratio.
But he is ranked 60th in passing yard, and 60th in TDs.
Oh yeah, he is also 18th in INTS.

Not sure how 'class on and off the field' is quantified for HOF membership, but I don't think the guy who almost retired because the NFL forced him to cut ties with gamblers gets extra points there.

Umm, are you implying the Patriots cheated?

The Broncos (with the referenced Elway) cheated. As someone has apparently failed to mention to Marshall Faulk, the Patriots were accused and punished excessively, but never "caught" because they didn't.

The statistics you mention should be examined in the context of how the game was played at the time.

And, that's the NFL. Namath was as popular with the NFL as Jim Valvano was with the NCAA...

 

[Ethanga62890]

I hate the Raiders, but Cliff Branch is a HOFer. And, a really nice man. Like his 80's teammates, a deserving champion. UNLIKE his 70's fraud team.

which is why I used him as an example. I love the raiders personally if they aren't playing the falcons. I like the raiders cause they were the one to give it back to Pitt in the 70s and Pitts whole team cried like a bunch of girls.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

That's great but who are the Chefs?

Great Oooglie-Mooglie

I'm hungry.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

Belated link: Does the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting process need fixing? | The MMQB with Peter King

Sometimes a sportswriter with a great presentation will be the difference maker.

“Belichick asks me what’s the criteria, and I said I don’t know,” Cole says. “We’re making it up as we go along.”​

 

[Ring 6]

The Broncos (with the referenced Elway) cheated. As someone has apparently failed to mention to Marshall Faulk, the Patriots were accused and punished excessively, but never "caught" because they didn't.

The statistics you mention should be examined in the context of how the game was played at the time.

And, that's the NFL. Namath was as popular with the NFL as Jim Valvano was with the NCAA...

Examine all you want, he was not a HOF caliber QB. Compare him to the real HOF Qbs of his era and he doesn't measure up.

Here is a guy who entered the league the same year, and is not even close to a HOFer
Craig Morton

Morton/Namath
W/L 81-62-1 / 62-63-4
Playoff starts 10 /3
Playoff wins (as starter) 5/2
Comp % 54.2 / 50.1
YDS 27908 / 27663
TD 183/ 173
Int 187/ 220
Pass attempts 3786 / 3762

Morton was a much better QB, and never was thought of as a HOFer.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Paul Tagliabue

Pat Bowlen

Paul Tagliabue authorized and concurred with a report that determined that the appearance of a head case in the Patriots' locker room magically revealed several African-American players to be lewd, mind-raping perverts, and declared that the Patriots "damaged the league."

Then, he dispatched James Orthwein here to impose an insulting makeover after five minutes en route to moving the franchise to his hometown St. Louis.

And later, he dispatched a young minion named Roger Goodell here pick up the phone and grease the wheels between surprise owner Robert (Sure James, whatever you say!) Kraft and previously obstinate Massachusetts lawmakers to keep the league in the Boston market, and more importantly to cozy up to the docile Kraft.

The Broncos' website bio of Pat Bowlen reads like a carbon copy of Robert Kraft's on the Pats'. Apparently he was on the field playing for every one of his team's victories, his franchise was utter stinking sewage before he bought it, his replacement of its tired, obsolete and outdated logo and uniforms with something right out of Devil-worship was classy and astute, and his first, prized top-drafted quarterback was the G.O.A.T. and not, um, something less. The fact that the team (unlike the Patriots) really did cheat in their pinnacle seasons of '97-'98 isn't mentioned.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

That's great but who are the Chefs?

Great Oooglie-Mooglie

I knew there was a reason Andy Reid liked the "Chefs"

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Examine all you want, he was not a HOF caliber QB. Compare him to the real HOF Qbs of his era and he doesn't measure up.

Here is a guy who entered the league the same year, and is not even close to a HOFer
Craig Morton

Morton/Namath
W/L 81-62-1 / 62-63-4
Playoff starts 10 /3
Playoff wins (as starter) 5/2
Comp % 54.2 / 50.1
YDS 27908 / 27663
TD 183/ 173
Int 187/ 220
Pass attempts 3786 / 3762

Morton was a much better QB, and never was thought of as a HOFer.

I don't think Craig was as feared as Namath (sorry don't know # of 4th Qtr/comeback wins) and nobody passed for 4,000 yards again until Fouts; but do you acknowledge the historical importance of what happened leading up to, during and after SB III?

I know the Chiefs went all the way the very next season, and they were loaded with great players, but I think Namath's contribution involves more than stats. Like Favre, I don't think Joe had any control over the media's behavior. But of course it's okay for you to disagree, AJ.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think Craig was as feared as Namath (sorry don't know # of 4th Qtr/comeback wins) and nobody passed for 4,000 yards again until Fouts; but do you acknowledge the historical importance of what happened leading up to, during and after SB III?

WTF does 'feared' mean. If you want to put extra value on his best season then you have to explain why he was still worse over his career.

No, there is no historical significance category in the HOF. He had a big mouth and guaranteed a win, that isn't HOF qualification.

I know the Chiefs went all the way the very next season, and they were loaded with great players, but I think Namath's contribution involves more than stats. Like Favre, I don't think Joe had any control over the media's behavior. But of course it's okay for you to disagree, AJ.

Admittance to the HOF should be based on your play on the field, not your popularity, or bs stuff people can invent as reasons.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Here's the problem with Warner.

Outdoors:
W-L - 22-34
TD:INT - 73:67
QBR - 84.4

When he had HOF talent in STL and AZ he was great. When he didn't in NY he sucked. His outdoor numbers are pedestrian at best. If he had to play an outdoor cold weather stadium he wouldn't have been the same player never mind with less talent around him. His OL was also tremendous is STL and AZ.

Earl Morrall is another really good - champion - QB who's not in there.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

WTF does 'feared' mean. If you want to put extra value on his best season then you have to explain why he was still worse over his career.

No, there is no historical significance category in the HOF. He had a big mouth and guaranteed a win, that isn't HOF qualification.


Admittance to the HOF should be based on your play on the field, not your popularity, or bs stuff people can invent as reasons.

For emphasis, I'm requoting a sportswriter making HoF selections consulting with BB

"Belichick asks me what’s the criteria, and I said I don’t know,” Cole says. “We’re making it up as we go along.”

In other words, they are writing history and don't know what they are doing.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

WTF does 'feared' mean

Again...referring to last-minute and come from behind wins.

Morton was better over time, playing on some very good Cowboy teams.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The NFL Hall of Fame Selection process is seriously flawed and corrupt.

Seriously flawed because there are only 48 selectors, one from each city (two from NYC) and 16 at large.
There are two selectors from the Dallas-Fort Worth area (one from Dallas, one at Large from FW). A third TX selector is from Houston, for three from Texas.
Two from New York City for the NYG and NYJ. Plus the many who live there.
Two from Cleveland. One from the city plus the head of the PFWA who happens to write for the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Two from the Bay Area, SF and OAK.
Four in total (for now) from CA: LA, OAK, SD, SF
Four from FL: MIA, JAX, TB plus one "At Large" from the Florida Times Union in JAX, for two from Jacksonville, a city of 840,000 people and one of the smallest markets in the NFL. All of New England has one selector (Borges!!!!) and a population of 14.7 million.

MLB has over 400 selectors. Its process has its own issues, but a handful of people, with their own personal and regional biases, don't control the entire process.

And, I saved the worst for last. ESPN has five votes: Jeff Legwold from Denver, Tony Grossi from ESPN Cleveland, Mike Sando from ESPN Seattle, Clayton and Palantonio, both at large. Over 10% of the votes for selecting the HOF class!

It's corrupt because this small cadre of 48 people make their living by having access to NFL teams, their players and management. They also control entrance to the most coveted honor that the Sport can bestow.

Who will say "No" to a Peter King or a John Clayton or Pal Salantonio or any one of these people if they want to do a piece on their team?

Who will be the recipient of "leaks" or "off the record" stories?

Their ability to select a member of the HOF translates into income for this group. Seriously, would Peter King's MMQB be what it is without access to the best inside information the League has to offer?

Know what would be a short, practically empty thread?

What's good, and right about the NFL

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

Know what would be a short, practically empty thread?

What's good, and right about the NFL

Sounds like the pub thread: "A thread about nothing"

Back when Rozelle was in charge, that thread would have content.

 

[Ring 6]

Again...referring to last-minute and come from behind wins.

Morton was better over time, playing on some very good Cowboy teams.

Game winning drives, Morton 22 Namath 16.

Morton is not close to a HOFer, and was better than Namath.
Kind of the end of the story.

 

[captain stone]

Namath is in the HoF for one - and only one - reason:

"I guarantee it."

And FWIW, neither Terrell Owens, Pat Bowlen nor Jerruh Jones deserve to be elected to the HoF.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

Belated link: Does the Pro Football Hall of Fame voting process need fixing? | The MMQB with Peter King

Sometimes a sportswriter with a great presentation will be the difference maker.

“Belichick asks me what’s the criteria, and I said I don’t know,” Cole says. “We’re making it up as we go along.”​

While someone thought this post was funny, it's also sad and outrageous. The link basically says many of these sportswriters don't know players from even the recent past that well. The quote suggests BB not would be a better evaluator of HoF candidates than some of these sportswriters, but is asking WTH anyone is setting up an objective criteria like in MLB? Mentions that Randy Moss thinks players are better qualified than writers to select - they should have more input.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Paul Brown originally asked Walsh to develop an offense that Virgil Carter the Bengals QB with a weak arm could run.

Correct (I grew up near Cincy).

Greg Cook was a cannon-armed Bengals QB who was seemingly headed for greatness before a career-ending shoulder injury. Carter was the backup who then took over. Weak arm- needed a new offense.

Then Ken Anderson came along and had the precise pinpoint accuracy (the first 70% passer) that Walsh's WCO really called for, with enough arm strength to still threaten the edges. It was Montana's similarity in skill set to Kenny Anderson's that led Walsh to use it and to evolve the system in SF.