Who I want and don't want in the HoF

[RecoveringCowboy]

First of all, I hope Ty Law gets in. One thing going against him statistically is for every defensive player inducted, four on offense gets in. The bias I'm more concerned about is for all Patriots not named Brady or Belichick - later.

This might stir up some, I hope Kurt Warner gets in. Of course the middle part of his career is a problem, but he did get the Cardinals to a SB. Come on, don't you wish he kept the Steelers from their 6th SB?

Don Coryell never went to a SB, but he was the author of the West Coast offense, although Bill Walsh refined it.

Paul Tagliabue among other things helped keep the Saints in NO after Katrina, did not play football after 9/11, the league grew. The bad spot was LA was without a team for 21 years, starting on his watch. Still, I want him in as he is far better than his successor and decremented some of the BountyGate penalties.


Now for who I don't want in.

Terrible Owens will get in eventually, but the best way to punish a narcissist is to ignore him. Don't induct him this year. I can get around the NFL rules don't consider anything but what he did on the field, by bringing out he was maybe the biggest locker room cancer ever. The first three teams he was with he started to diss the QB when he was unhappy. Forced a three way trade because he didn't want to play for the Ratbirds. Destroyed an Eagles season.

If a QB can be evaluated on his ability to rally a team to win, can't Terrell Owens be judged on the damage he did in the locker room? I say it's fair game. Now for the next narcissist - one that enabled him.


Many have not forgiven Robert Kraft on DeflateGate, but he is a far, far more qualified candidate for a HoF contributor than the owner on the ballot. Pat Bowlen should be considered, esp. since his mind is fading fast. Instead the ballot has a mind that from a football standpoint was never as good as Bowlen's even now.

Jerry Jones of course. If you talk about the money he's brought into the league and promoting the salary cap, then you must consider this as well:

1. His first six months, which include his classless firing of Tom Landry. Earned an interview by Sam Donaldson for his genus as a clown owner. Accidently found Jimmy Johnson however.
2. His worst move ever: The only owner to fire a coach that just won a SB. OK, divorce is more accurate as Jimmy wanted out, but he directly won 2 SBs, and built the team that would win a 3rd. Had Jones been a HoF owner, the Cowboys definitely would not have tanked over a decade and might have won a 4th SB.
3. You MUST consider his record as GM. In the 21 years since 1996, Cowboys have never advanced past the Divisional Round, worst playoff record in the NFL after the Browns, Lions, and Redskins. The man that acquired Quincy Carter, lusted after Johnny Manziel, and had a wet dream that once Sean Payton left for NO, Jason Garrett was just like him? How can an owner be HoF yet be a GM that's on the level of Matt Millen for 20 years? The man that turned Dallas around in 2016 is the man that found Dak Prescott and the OL - his son, not Jerry.
4. Jerrah is a business genus, however. In the past twenty years, he has the biggest fan base in the world and ZERO championships - more than these great teams
   • Patriots (5 very soon)
   • Broncos (3)
   • Steelers (2)
   • Packers (2)
   • Ravens (2)
   • Giants (2)
   • Yankees (4)
   • Red Sox (3)
   • Lakers (5)
   • Spurs (4)
   • SF Giants (3)
   • STL Cardinals (2)
   • Marlins (2)

Jerry Jones induction would be evidence the NFL product is not what it was.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

My concern for Patriot HoF candidates aside from slam dunks BB and TB.

Look at the Landry era Cowboys.

In 2003, Bob Hayes, Rayfield Wright, Cliff Harris were finalist - none got in that year. Paul "Dr Z" Zimmerman quit the HoF committee, citing anti-Cowboy bias.

This is going to happen to the Pats.

Landry and Staubach were going into the HoF, just like Belichick and Brady will in their 1st year of eligibility. Then the writers are going to lamely say none of their supporting cast was HoF. System players. They only stood out because of BB and TB. Don't expect that standard to be applied as severely to Edgerrin James - of course he would have been HoF without Peyton. Fifteen or twenty years from now you might wonder why the Colts are overrepresented and the Pats underrepresented, just like 70's Steelers got in with less scrutiny.

Only 48 writers select privately - why? Hundreds select for MLB. Let's make it hundreds for the NFL HoF and make it public. The Supreme Court publishes their decisions after all? Don't let writers to conceal their biases or vendettas - it's cowardly.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Jerry Jones of course. If you talk about the money he's brought into the league and promoting the salary cap, then you must consider this as well:

1. His first six months, which include his classless firing of Tom Landry. Earned an interview by Sam Donaldson for his genus as a clown owner. Accidently found Jimmy Johnson however.
2. ...
3. ...
4. Jerrah is a business genus, however. In the past twenty years, he has the biggest fan base in the world and ZERO championships - more than these great teams

That's great but who are the Chefs?

Great Oooglie-Mooglie

 

[Ring 6]

First of all, I hope Ty Law gets in. One thing going against him statistically is for every defensive player inducted, four on offense gets in. The bias I'm more concerned about is for all Patriots not named Brady or Belichick - later.

This might stir up some, I hope Kurt Warner gets in. Of course the middle part of his career is a problem, but he did get the Cardinals to a SB. Come on, don't you wish he kept the Steelers from their 6th SB?

Don Coryell never went to a SB, but he was the author of the West Coast offense, although Bill Walsh refined it.

Paul Tagliabue among other things helped keep the Saints in NO after Katrina, did not play football after 9/11, the league grew. The bad spot was LA was without a team for 21 years, starting on his watch. Still, I want him in as he is far better than his successor and decremented some of the BountyGate penalties.


Now for who I don't want in.

Terrible Owens will get in eventually, but the best way to punish a narcissist is to ignore him. Don't induct him this year. I can get around the NFL rules don't consider anything but what he did on the field, by bringing out he was maybe the biggest locker room cancer ever. The first three teams he was with he started to diss the QB when he was unhappy. Forced a three way trade because he didn't want to play for the Ratbirds. Destroyed an Eagles season.

If a QB can be evaluated on his ability to rally a team to win, can't Terrell Owens be judged on the damage he did in the locker room? I say it's fair game. Now for the next narcissist - one that enabled him.


Many have not forgiven Robert Kraft on DeflateGate, but he is a far, far more qualified candidate for a HoF contributor than the owner on the ballot. Pat Bowlen should be considered, esp. since his mind is fading fast. Instead the ballot has a mind that from a football standpoint was never as good as Bowlen's even now.

Jerry Jones of course. If you talk about the money he's brought into the league and promoting the salary cap, then you must consider this as well:

1. His first six months, which include his classless firing of Tom Landry. Earned an interview by Sam Donaldson for his genus as a clown owner. Accidently found Jimmy Johnson however.
2. His worst move ever: The only owner to fire a coach that just won a SB. OK, divorce is more accurate as Jimmy wanted out, but he directly won 2 SBs, and built the team that would win a 3rd. Had Jones been a HoF owner, the Cowboys definitely would not have tanked over a decade and might have won a 4th SB.
3. You MUST consider his record as GM. In the 21 years since 1996, Cowboys have never advanced past the Divisional Round, worst playoff record in the NFL after the Browns, Lions, and Redskins. The man that acquired Quincy Carter, lusted after Johnny Manziel, and had a wet dream that once Sean Payton left for NO, Jason Garrett was just like him? How can an owner be HoF yet be a GM that's on the level of Matt Millen for 20 years? The man that turned Dallas around in 2016 is the man that found Dak Prescott and the OL - his son, not Jerry.
4. Jerrah is a business genus, however. In the past twenty years, he has the biggest fan base in the world and ZERO championships - more than these great teams
   • Patriots (5 very soon)
   • Broncos (3)
   • Steelers (2)
   • Packers (2)
   • Ravens (2)
   • Giants (2)
   • Yankees (4)
   • Red Sox (3)
   • Lakers (5)
   • Spurs (4)
   • SF Giants (3)
   • St Cardinals (2)
   • Marlins (2)

Jerry Jones induction would be evidence the NFL product is not what it was.

Coryell does not belong in the HOF.
He coached 14 years and won 3 playoff games. the hof is for greatness not mediocrity.

By the way coryell did not invent the WCO. His offense and Walsh's were totally different. What he did was get a whole lot of offensive talent together on one team, make it look flashy and never win anything.

 

[patsfan13]

Coryell does not belong in the HOF.
He coached 14 years and won 3 playoff games. the hof is for greatness not mediocrity.

By the way coryell did not invent the WCO. His offense and Walsh's were totally different. What he did was get a whole lot of offensive talent together on one team, make it look flashy and never win anything.

Paul Brown originally asked Walsh to develop an offense that Virgil Carter the Bengals QB with a weak arm could run, LaVell Edwards developed the 'West Coast' offense at BYU since they couldn't recruit the players to run the wishbone. hey made extensive use of RB catching the ball to move the chains in leiu of running plays.

 

[Ring 6]

Paul Brown originally asked Walsh to develop an offense that Virgil Carter the Bengals QB with a weak arm could run, LaVell Edwards developed the 'West Coast' offense at BYU since they couldn't recruit the players to run the wishbone. hey made extensive use of RB catching the ball to move the chains in leiu of running plays.

Correct. Coryell gets associated with west coast offense because he was an offensive minded coach who was in the west coast. That's as close as it gets.

 

[Ethanga62890]

Ty law should absolutely be in. Dude was the best corner in the NFL for a few years.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The NFL Hall of Fame Selection process is seriously flawed and corrupt.

Seriously flawed because there are only 48 selectors, one from each city (two from NYC) and 16 at large.
There are two selectors from the Dallas-Fort Worth area (one from Dallas, one at Large from FW). A third TX selector is from Houston, for three from Texas.
Two from New York City for the NYG and NYJ. Plus the many who live there.
Two from Cleveland. One from the city plus the head of the PFWA who happens to write for the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Two from the Bay Area, SF and OAK.
Four in total (for now) from CA: LA, OAK, SD, SF
Four from FL: MIA, JAX, TB plus one "At Large" from the Florida Times Union in JAX, for two from Jacksonville, a city of 840,000 people and one of the smallest markets in the NFL. All of New England has one selector (Borges!!!!) and a population of 14.7 million.

MLB has over 400 selectors. Its process has its own issues, but a handful of people, with their own personal and regional biases, don't control the entire process.

And, I saved the worst for last. ESPN has five votes: Jeff Legwold from Denver, Tony Grossi from ESPN Cleveland, Mike Sando from ESPN Seattle, Clayton and Palantonio, both at large. Over 10% of the votes for selecting the HOF class!

It's corrupt because this small cadre of 48 people make their living by having access to NFL teams, their players and management. They also control entrance to the most coveted honor that the Sport can bestow.

Who will say "No" to a Peter King or a John Clayton or Pal Salantonio or any one of these people if they want to do a piece on their team?

Who will be the recipient of "leaks" or "off the record" stories?

Their ability to select a member of the HOF translates into income for this group. Seriously, would Peter King's MMQB be what it is without access to the best inside information the League has to offer?

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

I hear in MLB about standards against players for their era. If football did the same, the criteria for inducting a player at said position for today would be known....have these kind of stats, # of Pro Bowl selections, etc.

 

[everlong]

Here's the problem with Warner.

Outdoors:
W-L - 22-34
TD:INT - 73:67
QBR - 84.4

When he had HOF talent in STL and AZ he was great. When he didn't in NY he sucked. His outdoor numbers are pedestrian at best. If he had to play an outdoor cold weather stadium he wouldn't have been the same player never mind with less talent around him. His OL was also tremendous is STL and AZ.

 

[Ethanga62890]

I hear in MLB about standards against players for their era. If football did the same, the criteria for inducting a player at said position for today would be known....have these kind of stats, # of Pro Bowl selections, etc.

play for the steelers

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

play for the steelers

For instance, some question Lynn Swan's inclusion. Yes, he made some fantastic catches, but doesn't yardage and years also count?

 

[Ethanga62890]

For instance, some question Lynn Swan's inclusion. Yes, he made some fantastic catches, but doesn't yardage and years also count?

yeah buf Clifford branch who won 3 SBS and puts that sissy ballerinas numbers to shame. No induction

Edit. No Swann should not be in. Not even the best wr on his own team

 

[Ring 6]

For instance, some question Lynn Swan's inclusion. Yes, he made some fantastic catches, but doesn't yardage and years also count?

Swann, like Gale Sayers, was a HOF talent without HOF production, but for different reasons.

He also was loved by the media. Same as Namath who really has no business being a HOFer.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

it's cowardly.

That is their ultimate mantra, like, NBA Action...It's Fantastic!

The NFL...It's Cowardly!

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

yeah buf Clifford branch who won 3 SBS and puts that sissy ballerinas numbers to shame. No induction

Edit. No Swann should not be in. Not even the best wr on his own team

I hate the Raiders, but Cliff Branch is a HOFer. And, a really nice man. Like his 80's teammates, a deserving champion. UNLIKE his 70's fraud team.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Law is the only player who matters to me this time around. Let that man take his rightful place in the Hall. He's probably the only player in NFL history who could make it in on playoff performances alone. Oh, and Peyton Manning should be the one who introduces Ty.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

I hate the Raiders, but Cliff Branch is a HOFer. And, a really nice man. Like his 80's teammates, a deserving champion. UNLIKE his 70's fraud team.

The 70's Raiders were the team I hated the most: image, the Holy Roller play, and the hit on Darryl Stingley.

Having said all that, I think there has been an anti-Raider bias in the HoF. It was only a year or two ago the greatest punter of all time, Ray Guy was inducted. I get the arguments special teams are not on the field as much as the other guys, etc, etc, but Ray Guy was overdue. I think being a Raider factored into that delay.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Swann, like Gale Sayers, was a HOF talent without HOF production, but for different reasons.

He also was loved by the media. Same as Namath who really has no business being a HOFer.

Namath was pretty damn good, wasn't he? Besides setting records, he was the polar opposite of Elway, performing in the clutch, under pressure, overcoming setbacks and adversity, and amidst modern-Patriot-like denigration succeeded in leading his team to victory (without cheating) and displaying class on and off the field.

It's impossible to overstate the hostile and disgraceful behavior of the NFL in the sixties, which thrives to this day in the form of anti-Patriots bias, corruption and abuse.

 

[Ring 6]

Namath was pretty damn good, wasn't he? Besides setting records, he was the polar opposite of Elway, performing in the clutch, under pressure, overcoming setbacks and adversity, and amidst modern-Patriot-like denigration succeeded in leading his team to victory (without cheating) and displaying class on and off the field.

It's impossible to overstate the hostile and disgraceful behavior of the NFL in the sixties, which thrives to this day in the form of anti-Patriots bias, corruption and abuse.

Are we talking about a different Joe Namath?

I'm talking about the one who had a losing career record, only made the playoffs twice, one being a one and done (yes he never won a playoff game outside of 1968) and had a 173/220 TD/Ratio.
But he is ranked 60th in passing yard, and 60th in TDs.
Oh yeah, he is also 18th in INTS.

Not sure how 'class on and off the field' is quantified for HOF membership, but I don't think the guy who almost retired because the NFL forced him to cut ties with gamblers gets extra points there.

Umm, are you implying the Patriots cheated?