Who do the Pats select with the 23rd overall pick?

[p8ryts]

I think you're placing way too much emphasis on level of competition with Trautman. The point of success for him at the SeniorBowl isnt necessarily pro readiness. It's the first step in showing you have the talent to compete with the big boys. He clearly does. The issue of less competition is irrelevant at this point. But, the week also showed that he is more refined than people thought. As a route runner and blocker, he impressed. Hes not just a talented kid with no idea of what to do. All tight ends take time to develop. Even 1st rounders from big schools. I wouldnt expect any tight end from any school to have a big impact this year. With Trautman, talent is talent. Going to a small school should not eliminate him from 2nd round consideration.

Also a comment regarding the OL. I've seen some talk about OL being a need, and seen some mocks with the Patriots taking 2 in the first 3 rounds. I'm not sure I get it. We return 4 of 5 starters from last year. The one starter that isnt returning was a replacement, and the original starter, Andrew's, is expected back. We also have 3rd and 4th round picks returning. Especially in Cajuste's case, this was a very talented kid who could've pushed for immediate PT if he was healthy. Hes healthy now and ready to go(and it wasnt a serious injury that could potentially impact you like an achilles tear or back injury). Cajuste is as talented as any of the tackles outside of the 1st round prospects, and shouldn't have any problem being the swing tackle this year. As for Froholdt, he certainly isnt as highly regarded as Cajuste. But he is talented, and can play guard and center. His biggest problem, while potentially made worse initially after a shoulder injury, could be resolved after a year getting stronger. I dont think anyone in the 3rd or 4th should be considered any safer than Froholdt entering the year.

Certainly, counting on all 3 to come back and make an immediate impact is hard to do. Tjere is always some doubt after guys miss a year. But, for all intents and purposes, with Andrew's back, we return 5 starters. Plus 2 talented 2nd year players, that cover tackle, guard, and center for depth purposes.

I'm not saying to ignore offensive line. I just dont see the need in the 1st round. I also think better players at different positions will be available.

We don't know about Andrews. Hope for the best expect the worst. I agree Cajuste may be a positive but we don't know at all about him. Froholdt didn't impress me at all, doesn't mean he won't be improved. I just think a competent Center/Guard backup is unidentified at this time and the center is so important to solidifying the OL.

 

[Rdforty2]

I've been wondering how much the state of the 2021 Patriots will be impacting this pick. We have a lot of cap,space, but obviously a lot of holes on paper with the uncertainty of who will be back.

I just talked a little bit about the kids from last year in Froholdt and Cajuste. I think both at.least provide depth, but also have the talent to be cheaper replacements for guys like Thuney or Cannon. I dont think OL should be the pick.

We have a lot of bodies hitting the market on the DL. We already could use a DL now. We have Hightower coming available, and already have a need now at LB. WR takes some time generally to develop, and we already need some help there.

I find it hard to see Bill going WR 2 years in a row, but if a stud talent falls, it could also be hard to pass on.

I tend to lean front 7. Hightower is slowing down, and a FA next year. It would be a good time to get another talent and leader in there. I know Queen has some size concerns, but in pairing with Hightower and Bentley, he can be hidden to an extent. Murray and Baun look like talented guys as well.

I would lean DL, in general. Basically the entire front is a FA next year. Someone like Butler could command too big of a deal for Bill's liking. We need a foundation there IMO.

I'd prefer to land a DL, LB, WR, and TE in our first 4 picks, in a perfect world. Covers some depth concerns, gets some guys into the program and a chance to develop to be counted on for bigger roles in 21(TE, WR).

 

[Rdforty2]

We don't know about Andrews. Hope for the best expect the worst. I agree Cajuste may be a positive but we don't know at all about him. Froholdt didn't impress me at all, doesn't mean he won't be improved. I just think a competent Center/Guard backup is unidentified at this time and the center is so important to solidifying the OL.

I understand some apprehension on the returning guys. Certainly, there is a leap of faith on my part in projecting them back. But all accounts on Andrews say hes in great shape and looks to be ready to go.

I dont think you take a 1st round pick on a center, considering Andrew's looks to be ready. If Andrew's is ready, then one of him or the 1st round pick sits the bench. I'm all for depth, but that's not the best use of the pick. I'm ok taking a OL in the 3rd, but I think you can make the argument Froholdt has as much talent as that guy.

As far as Cajuste, hes a year removed from his surgery, and is ready to go. It was a muscle thing that's had plenty of time to heal and gain strength back. I definitely think hes safe enough to count on depth wise from the get go. And he certainly has the talent to be a starter in the league, so he counts as the young tackle that could replace Cannon going forward.

Froholdt is certainly the guy to count on least. I'm not arguing he's starter ready or is going to be a great player. I'm only making the argument that hes the talented insurance policy. Hed serve the same purpose as taking a guy in the 3rd as Andrews insurance.

 

[Gator Mike]

I'm at the point now where I'm thinking more along the lines of what players would have to be available at #23 in order for the Patriots to not trade down.

 

[Rdforty2]

I'd be good with Chaisson, Queen, Murray, Baun, or Epenesa at 23. Obviously completely different types of players and maybe Chaisson is a bit too risky but I think theres a vision for all those guys to be worth the pick and play a role.

But I agree, trading down makes a lot of sense. Epenesa and the other defensive linemen probably fit a bit later on,and throughout the 2nd(Elliott, Davidson, Davis, etc) Jalen Reagor is the WR I want. I dont know if the Patriots would take him at 23 though. So trading down and picking up another asset would be ideal if he is a target.

 

[patsfaninpa]

I like Queen....The linebacker. But, I can't see BB drafting a 229lb linebacker. Not enough junk in the trunk for his liking. Maybe Murray, but he's more of a great athlete than lb.

 

[State]

Queen at 23. work ethic + character + toughness=all pro. His lack of size isn't a deal breaker.

better yet, trade out with the Chargers if they see a QB and get a tingle going up their leg for Hebert chocolate bunny and at #37 take an interior OL like Wisconsin's Badazz (the next non-illness Travis Frederick?) or TE Kmet, cause we're desperate to fill serviceable nfl talent at that position.

i like the latter move, though i love We Are the Champions, because BB pissed away our second on Mo Sitthisoutsanu.

Pick up another third.

 

[captain stone]

I'm at the point now where I'm thinking more along the lines of what players would have to be available at #23 in order for the Patriots to not trade down.

I'd be good with Chaisson, Queen, Murray, Baun, or Epenesa at 23. Obviously completely different types of players and maybe Chaisson is a bit too risky but I think theres a vision for all those guys to be worth the pick and play a role.

But I agree, trading down makes a lot of sense. Epenesa and the other defensive linemen probably fit a bit later on,and throughout the 2nd(Elliott, Davidson, Davis, etc) Jalen Reagor is the WR I want. I dont know if the Patriots would take him at 23 though. So trading down and picking up another asset would be ideal if he is a target.

Yeah the only players for whom I would even consider not trading #23 are (in no particular order): Herbert, Jeudy, Wills, Wirfs, Andrew Thomas, Kinlaw, Derrick Brown & Ken Murray (though Chaisson is also very tempting)...

 

[scott99]

DO NOT TRADE DOWN. The 23rd slot, there will be some impact players available. Why trade down to the 2nd tier of players. 23 is a sweet spot, make the pick.

 

[captain stone]

DO NOT TRADE DOWN. The 23rd slot, there will be some impact players available. Why trade down to the 2nd tier of players. 23 is a sweet spot, make the pick.

Because we need more than just one impact player out of the first 86 picks.

 

[jah]

I don't know much about specific prospects in this draft, but I think eventually the "BB requires 240+ lb linebackers" narrative has to change because the game is changing. We already line up safeties as linebackers at times, so really it's a matter of semantics. There would be a use for a player with Queen's frame in this defense regardless of what position you call it.

 

[borisman]

Some people thought Jerod Mayo was too small/short to play for a BB defense.

 

[captain stone]

Some people thought Jerod Mayo was too small/short to play for a BB defense.

Mayo was already 240-245 when he was drafted; Queen is 230 soaking wet.

 

[captain stone]

I don't know much about specific prospects in this draft, but I think eventually the "BB requires 240+ lb linebackers" narrative has to change because the game is changing. We already line up safeties as linebackers at times, so really it's a matter of semantics. There would be a use for a player with Queen's frame in this defense regardless of what position you call it.

I gotta admit that it would be nice to have a LB here who can actually defend a wheel route worth a damn...

 

[borisman]

Mayo was already 240-245 when he was drafted; Queen is 230 soaking wet.

He was around 230 but I didn't care. He was good.
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Jerod Mayo

 

[captain stone]

He was around 230 but I didn't care. He was good.
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Jerod Mayo

Hmmm...there seems to be conflicting information:

Jerod Mayo - Wikipedia

*Jerod Mayo, Tennessee, ILB, 2008 Draft Scout, DraftScout.com/NFL Draft Scout

Perhaps the 230 was his playing weight during his junior season at Tennessee, 237 during the combine, and 242 during his pro day...regardless, his testing #s were outstanding for a LB...I can see why Bill fell in love with him and chose him over the higher-ranked (while also filling a need) OT Ryan Clady...

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Queen has a lot of Bobby Wagner to him, albeit not quite as long and a little thinner too. He would be a great get with a small trade down.

if it’s at all possible to do the Tampa pick swap with Edelman attached, I’d do it in a heartbeat if Kinlaw was available. He is the most Patriot style player in this draft and automatically changes the look of our defense going forward. He may not start day 1, but no one in this draft (minus Ruiz if Andrews is still out) probably steps in to the lineup right away.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I'm at the point now where I'm thinking more along the lines of what players would have to be available at #23 in order for the Patriots to not trade down.

I have been saying for a long time that we should trade down unless kinlaw or Espinoza falls to 23. They are perfect fits for our defense.

kinlaw is the best 3-4 defensive end in this draft and can kick inside to rush on third downs with a 4 man line.

Espinoza is the best pass rusher in this draft not named young. Not a twitchy guy, but a power guy that can also play the run.

Kinlaw should be fine by pick 15, but Espinoza should be available at 23.

if love is on the board at 23, bb could get a Nice haul for the pick!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Certainly, counting on all 3 to come back and make an immediate impact is hard to do. Tjere is always some doubt after guys miss a year. But, for all intents and purposes, with Andrew's back, we return 5 starters. Plus 2 talented 2nd year players, that cover tackle, guard, and center for depth purposes.

I'm not saying to ignore offensive line. I just dont see the need in the 1st round. I also think better players at different positions will be available.

The problem is that you don't know what you have with the likes of Froholdt, Cajuste, and there's no guarantee that Andrews returns 100% healthy. I do feel the Pats will take a couple of OL in this draft but they will likely be interior OL so you can always find a decent OG or C in the 4th-6th rounds if your scouting is good.

Definitely need competition for those positions as the talent level and health was downright terrible last year and you don't know what you are getting with the IRd rookies from the last draft class.

That being said, offense needs a huge infusion of talent. I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted QB/WR/TE early. Heck I wouldn't be surprised at another 3rd or 4th round pick spent at RB as NONE of our RBs impressed last season.

 

[captain stone]

...Heck I wouldn't be surprised at another 3rd or 4th round pick spent at RB...

I'll personally drive up to Foxborough and blow-torch the place if that happens...