Where the pats stand right now

[yukon cornelius]

Here's a prediction. The WR will VERY soon become the future's version of the RB. That is, easy to find them and with so many out there you won't have to pay them the amounts of money that too many receive today. Sure there will be a few that will get big money, but not like they are getting in todays game. Why? Simply put, "Economics"

In today's pass happy offenses the College game is spewing out 20 odd NFL quality receivers every year. Sure some are better than others but most are good enough to win with......and in the end, THAT is what matters. In a day in the not too distant future, FA WR's will start to see the premium contract start to dry out when the market gets stuffed with quality guys. More guys than there are jobs to have. AND next year there will be another 20, and the next and the next and the next. Get the picture.

DISCLAIMER - When I say these guys won't get paid, I'm speaking in relative terms here. There will be a bunch of guys with 10MM deals, but even as the cap rises, there will be very few if any, 20MM/yr deals.

you can already see it happening - you're already seeing more and more guys that are "X" receivers vs "Y" or "Z" guys - there's still some flexibility and variability, but just like we started to see fewer and fewer 3 down backs, and saw the rise of the '3rd down back' and the 'short yardage' guy, i think there are some parallels to be drawn between the two positions

 

[Ring 6]

I thought he was pretty solid the first three games pre-COVID. But that view is sometimes...

...unpopular.

He had a very good quarter and a half in Seattle. (Until he choked on the mast play) Otherwise he was the same guy all year.

 

[Ring 6]

bucs just won a Super Bowl with 3 superstar pro bowl WRs

None of whom produced like one in the postseason

 

[patsfanincleveland]

you can already see it happening - you're already seeing more and more guys that are "X" receivers vs "Y" or "Z" guys - there's still some flexibility and variability, but just like we started to see fewer and fewer 3 down backs, and saw the rise of the '3rd down back' and the 'short yardage' guy, i think there are some parallels to be drawn between the two positions

It's going to get to where teams have 5 skill guys out there.

Scheme is everything.

It's like people who are dismissive because Edelman is only good with the Pats.

They miss the point that he's great with the Pats.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

QB C
WR B (B+ with healthy JE - whatever you want to say about Agholor, corners need safety help with him, that's his job.
OL A- (Potential to be an A; depends on Brown and Wynn's health)
TE A (gimme a break! This position is stacked.)
RB B

DL B (Great depth but no game wrecker, except maybe Judon.)
LB B+ (Potential is there)
CB A
S B (McCourty's still got the goods, Phillips was solid last year, and Dugger will improve. Don't know about Mills.)

S/T A (Great punter, solid kickers, good punt return, great coverage.)

I think many here are underestimating both the amount of young talent the Pats showed last year in achieving middle of the road record, and the infusion of veteran talent this year. If this team doesn't get double-digit wins, the season is a disaster. I think they go 4-2 in the division, as I don't see Buffalo sweeping them again, and really, the only game on the schedule where I see them truly over-matched is Tampa Bay. Every AFC South team is beatable. Cleveland will be a tough game.

If this secondary is shaping up the way it looks, Tampa will not score 20 points absent multiple turnovers.

 

[Ivan]

QB-D Newton simply showed no passing ability last season. Stidham and Hoyer couldn’t beat out a really bad QB

RB-B+Harris is a full time back, and Michel looked better upon his return. White is an exceptional receiving back, and Taylor played well when given the opportunity.

Fullback-C Hopefully Johnson stays healthy.

WR-C Edelman is still their best receivers bet when healthy, but they are a little deeper than year ago with the additions of Agholor and Bourne. The wild card here though could be Gunner, he is a missed tackle from going the distance any time he touches the ball.

TE-A+ I gave them the + because bringing in both Smith and Henry immediately changes the way they can approach the 2021 season. I love the idea of them going big and pushing teams around. They may not have the most potent offense in football but they can have the most physical offense in football, and that gives them a fighting chance in any game, as they can chew up time and dictate field position,

OL- A+ This is an excellent OL. Losing Thuney hurts but Trent Brown replaces a guy who didn’t play last year, and Onwenu goes back to his original position. Bringing back Andrews gives them the cohesion they need. Big nasty OL to go with big nasty two TE power offense.

DL-B- This isn’t Seymour/ Wilfork /Warren, but it’s a good DL for the most part. They aren’t going to put up sack numbers but it’s essentially a 3 man DL, so the rush will come from the safeties and LB’s. I wouldn’t mind another addition,

LB-A+ I decided to look at Wynovich and Uche as edge rushers and not true DL because I think their scheme is going to be primarily big nickel and big dime, with fewer DL or LB depending on the situations. With Wynovich/Judon/Hightower/Uche you have a formidable LB/Edge unit.

Secondary-A+ Talent and experience, and the ability to match up with a variety of offenses. Excellent unit, as good as anyone in football.

ST’s-A Only Folk keeps this from being A+. He’s a decent kicker, nothing more. The coverage units and Jake Bailey are exceptional,

The Patriots are a QB away from being a Championship caliber team. They have some weaknesses but the work they did in free agency addressed so many needs with quality players that they are significantly better now than they were a year ago. I would trade for Mariota, then either trade up for Field or Lance, or take Jones at #15. end of story, and one of the best off seasons we have seen.

 

[Ivan]

Gunner is a good but not great returner. He had 18 KR for 23.3 yards. 9 KRs with at least 18 attempts did better. As far as his punt returns. He was the best, but it was all due to one game with one particularly bad coverage unit that had one particularly bad game. Take that out and he would still be good, but with so few attempts it's hard to know how repeatable it is. I'm not sold on Gunner. I think he is good. But is he great? Maybe not. If he was the real deal why aren't his KR returns elite as well? Punts are a bit more random than kick offs for obvious reasons. When the two don't line up it's makes me wonder.

I also question Folk being 'the guy'. Maybe he is. But I don't trust it yet. He's fine. But life time is only 81%. Since coming here he is closer to 87% Which is fine, but he also doesn't make a lot of difficult kicks. Only 4 attempts over 50 yards. He was great last year, but I'm talking about how I grade them right now going into next season. While the past season is important. I'm looking at his overall career, which is fine but not great. He's no Justin Tucker.

Yes they made splash plays last year and had a very good STs last year. If I were grading them for what they did last year I would give them an A. But I'm grading for what their projected to do this year. I don't think Folk hits 26/28 again (which was a career year. I don't think Gunner catches another STs unit on such a bad day. They will still have great coverage, some splash plays, a very good punter and solid kicker with a proven good returner. But I see a bit of a drop off just because things went so well last year. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I'd be happy to be wrong and have it be proven to be an A. Just like last year was.

You are right on Folk but dead wrong on Gunner, he’s explosive in the return game. Stats don’t tell the whole story, especially when you see what got called back,

 

[patfanken]

bucs just won a Super Bowl with 3 superstar pro bowl WRs

And you can count the number of superstar WR's with rings on one hand and most of those that do have very few. How many does Julio have or Green, or even AB before last season when he was the 4th option if you don't include TE's (plus it doesn't hurt to have a guy who gets players to sublimate their vast egos) \

Where are all the Packer superbowls and the Colt and Bengal superbowls and the Detroit superbowls with their HOF WR and #1 pick QB. Only Gerry Rice has 4 and he was on a pre-cap team with a HOF QB and a unique (at the time) offense that took a while for teams to even get a grasp on, let alone stop it.

The need for hype (not Hyped, ) on this board is getting ridiculous. If I need UFO sightings I can go to supermarket and read all about them.

OMG the team is lost, they'll go 2-14 and we'll be the laughing stock of the league. After all we did have a losinig season didn't we?

 

[DarrylS]

While I have little confidence in Cam, will have to wait after OTA's & TC, to see if there is any improvement.

Without regard the Pats are setting themselves up to trade down and pick up a QB, Mac Jones??

Not sure Edelman will be back, but the WR's may be ok as probably can count on the TE's way more than last year.. from my perch the lack of TE production was a death blow to this team..

Jones coming from a pro style O in the SEC is poised to be the guy that can revert to the short passing game that sustained us early no in this dynasty..

 

[BobDigital]

The 2 areas of disagreement for me are:
QB: C+. This is projecting an improved Cam due to better weapons, no Covid, and a year in the system
WR: C+. Agholor is good, and Bourne is good. Meyers is good, and JE is good. None are great but all are good, assuming JE returns to form. Only 1 burner, would like WR 5 to be very fast.

If Edelman returns to his 1000 yard form then a C+ is fair. I just don't see it happening, or even close to happening. Which is why my Grade was so low.

 

[Rusty Coupe]

In 2003 the WRs' were Deion Branch, David Patten, Bethel Johnson, and Troy Brown. None of them made the Pro Bowl but all of them were good and used well within the offense to fit who they were. I see this current group as similar without needing a 1.

 

[BobDigital]

And you can count the number of superstar WR's with rings on one hand and most of those that do have very few. How many does Julio have or Green, or even AB before last season when he was the 4th option if you don't include TE's (plus it doesn't hurt to have a guy who gets players to sublimate their vast egos) \

Where are all the Packer superbowls and the Colt and Bengal superbowls and the Detroit superbowls with their HOF WR and #1 pick QB. Only Gerry Rice has 4 and he was on a pre-cap team with a HOF QB and a unique (at the time) offense that took a while for teams to even get a grasp on, let alone stop it.

The need for hype (not Hyped, ) on this board is getting ridiculous. If I need UFO sightings I can go to supermarket and read all about them.

OMG the team is lost, they'll go 2-14 and we'll be the laughing stock of the league. After all we did have a losinig season didn't we?

Speaking of UFO sightings, have you heard that congressed passed something along with the covid relief package at the end of last year? Within 6 months the US has to release all the info they have on UFOs. Frankly there may be some real fire to all the smoke we've heard over the years.