Where the pats stand right now

[BobDigital]

You forgot about Adrian Phillips, who will be starting at safety and playing well.

Did our starting SS really get cut when I wasn't paying attention?

Opps. Adding him. MB.

 

[BobDigital]

View attachment 31616

but the shiny hood ornament looks cool!

You don't want to end up over paying for a WR. But in today's game their value has gone up.

Unless you're an elite defensive team or have Brady it's hard to make the final 4 without sensational pass catchers recently.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Maybe my special teams grade was a bit low. I'm willing to be talked into moving it up. My main issue with STs is we don't have a kicker I feel very confident in. Kicker to me is like the QB of the STs. When you don't have an elite one it's hard for me to give the unit an A. Maybe if they had a truly dynamic return game along with lots of blocked kicks I could see it. But without one of the best kickers in the NFL it's hard for me to put them in the A range. Maybe B+?

Yes, I am an admitedly tough grader, but for a reason. You can't give a grade higher than an A+. And I wouldn't want to give out an A+ and then need to give out an A++ when someone is clearly better.

A dynamic return game . . . like an all pro punt returner?

We had THREE all pros on ST last year, Folk was solid if not spectacular, our coverage units rarely gave up big plays, we scored a few ST touchdowns, and several respected publications listed our STs as #1 in the league. I'm honestly not sure how that doesn't deserve at least an A.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

QB: D-
RB: B+ - would love to give this group an A but I worry about injuries here
WR: C only if Edelman is healthy
TE: B Draft a guy like Pitts and this turns into an A.
OL: B+

Defense:
DL: C+
LB: B-
Secondary: A-

ST: A-
Coaching: A-

I see a 9 win roster. I think the floor is higher than it was a month ago but I'm not seeing the upside yet without a QB.

you would only give our TE group an A if we have Henry Smith Asiasi Keene (basically two rookies) and Pitts?
I think TE is an A+. I don't know if there is any other TE group in the NFL which has depth and quality like our group. Just bc we have smith and Henry now, doesn't mean Asiasi and Keene can't make jumps and develop into solid TE. Especially depth here but also two starting caliber top 10 TE maybe.
Woudl give LB a B at least and D-Line B- with the Guy Addition cause we have better depth and quality there now.

 

[BobDigital]

A dynamic return game . . . like an all pro punt returner?

We had THREE all pros on ST last year, Folk was solid if not spectacular, our coverage units rarely gave up big plays, we scored a few ST touchdowns, and several respected publications listed our STs as #1 in the league. I'm honestly not sure how that doesn't deserve at least an A.

Gunner is a good but not great returner. He had 18 KR for 23.3 yards. 9 KRs with at least 18 attempts did better. As far as his punt returns. He was the best, but it was all due to one game with one particularly bad coverage unit that had one particularly bad game. Take that out and he would still be good, but with so few attempts it's hard to know how repeatable it is. I'm not sold on Gunner. I think he is good. But is he great? Maybe not. If he was the real deal why aren't his KR returns elite as well? Punts are a bit more random than kick offs for obvious reasons. When the two don't line up it's makes me wonder.

I also question Folk being 'the guy'. Maybe he is. But I don't trust it yet. He's fine. But life time is only 81%. Since coming here he is closer to 87% Which is fine, but he also doesn't make a lot of difficult kicks. Only 4 attempts over 50 yards. He was great last year, but I'm talking about how I grade them right now going into next season. While the past season is important. I'm looking at his overall career, which is fine but not great. He's no Justin Tucker.

Yes they made splash plays last year and had a very good STs last year. If I were grading them for what they did last year I would give them an A. But I'm grading for what their projected to do this year. I don't think Folk hits 26/28 again (which was a career year. I don't think Gunner catches another STs unit on such a bad day. They will still have great coverage, some splash plays, a very good punter and solid kicker with a proven good returner. But I see a bit of a drop off just because things went so well last year. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I'd be happy to be wrong and have it be proven to be an A. Just like last year was.

 

[WeezyFbaby]

Holy you guys are tough graders

How the TE can be anything less than an A is crazy, its the best overall group in the entire NFL

D+ for the WR group is ridiculous, its not all pro but its capable especially since they dont need to be all pro with the best TE group in the NFL

 

[Wax Frog]

Bob, I know giving grades is very subjective and I respect your opinion, but if you're giving our special teams unit which is the best in the league a B.....wow, you're a tough grader!!!! Also think if our Tight end position, O-line, RB's are less than an A....again tough grader.

OT / Dad-joke mode - would someone getting a scholarship to learn the art of evaluating a roster be a Rhodes Grader?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I'd say 10 wins. They got 7 last year; they improved immensely at TE and a fair bit at WR; their D is better and their schedule is easier. There's also an extra game which I think is winnable. I'd say:

Wins:
Home: Dolphins, Jets, Jaguars, Saints
Away: Jets, Texans, Colts, Panthers, Chargers
TBD: Cowboys

Losses:
Home: Bills, Titans, Buccaneers, Browns
Away: Bills, Dolphins, Falcons

I could certainly see an argument for a few either way. If they add someone like Garoppolo I'd probably bump this up to 11 or even 12 wins (assuming he's healthy most games). Probably adds wins against teams like the Falcons, Browns and maybe the Bills once.

They can beat Atlanta the Dolphins twice (although Miami won't be easy). And don't be surprised if NE beats Tampa, Titans, and Browns as well. I would think 11-6 is a reasonable prediction.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The 2 areas of disagreement for me are:
QB: C+. This is projecting an improved Cam due to better weapons, no Covid, and a year in the system
WR: C+. Agholor is good, and Bourne is good. Meyers is good, and JE is good. None are great but all are good, assuming JE returns to form. Only 1 burner, would like WR 5 to be very fast.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

You don't want to end up over paying for a WR. But in today's game their value has gone up.

Unless you're an elite defensive team or have Brady it's hard to make the final 4 without sensational pass catchers recently.

"Value" and "money" are two different things.

WR's are paid a lot of money.

Scheme and depth have true value.

 

[50-yard-line]

QB C
WR B (B+ with healthy JE - whatever you want to say about Agholor, corners need safety help with him, that's his job.
OL A- (Potential to be an A; depends on Brown and Wynn's health)
TE A (gimme a break! This position is stacked.)
RB B

DL B (Great depth but no game wrecker, except maybe Judon.)
LB B+ (Potential is there)
CB A
S B (McCourty's still got the goods, Phillips was solid last year, and Dugger will improve. Don't know about Mills.)

S/T A (Great punter, solid kickers, good punt return, great coverage.)

I think many here are underestimating both the amount of young talent the Pats showed last year in achieving middle of the road record, and the infusion of veteran talent this year. If this team doesn't get double-digit wins, the season is a disaster. I think they go 4-2 in the division, as I don't see Buffalo sweeping them again, and really, the only game on the schedule where I see them truly over-matched is Tampa Bay. Every AFC South team is beatable. Cleveland will be a tough game.

 

[Hyped]

My grades by unit:

QB: I believe Cam is the answer for the 2021 season. If we take a QB in the top of the draft, I'll bump this up to a B+. Right now, my grade is a C-.

RB: I would give these guys a B. It is a solid room, but we don't have a FULL TIME 3 down back to keep defenses guessing.

TE: A+, I don't think there's a better TE room in the NFL. There are better TE's...but the combo of Henry/Smith/Asiasi/Keene/LaCosse? No one is better....and we are cutting LaCosse.

OL: B+, we could use better depth in case of injuries at tackle...Trent Brown didn't play a full season last year and Wynn has a well documented injury history....I mean we are counting on Cunningham/Cajuste as back ups with Brown/Wynn essentially on one year deals. On the interior...I am confident...I think we have players in Andrews/Karras at center...then Onwenu/Mason at guard being backed up by Herron who did well last year given that he was a rookie. If we remain injury free...and start the best 5 all 17 games....this would be an A+ rating. Let's hope we pick up some depth in the draft.

WR: I would give this group a C+. We are vastly better, but no true game breaking #1 that will take coverage....but we have a ton of guys to attack the intermediate areas of the field with Algholor he deep guy....can't complain. I'd like to take some flyers on WR in rounds 4-7.If Edelman is 100%...then bump this group to a B.

Overall offense: B-, I think even with Cam....this is one of the top offenses in the AFC. Really, only Buffalo and Kansa City have more firepower than we do, IMO....for the rest of the AFC...we're in the mix, IMO.

Interior DL: Godchaux and Guy...nice! I'd like more depth though. B+.

Edge/OLB: I don't think we have ever had so many pass rush options....and we even have some good edge setters too. A-.

Interior LB: H-Tower/KVN/Bentley....love it....A+.

DB: A+...best in the NFL. Does anyone have a better combo than Gilmore, Jackson, and Jones?

S: A-....DMac is still one of the top safeties...and I think Dugger will kick ass in year 2....and we still have Phillips...as well as Mills and JJ Williams who can cover big guys.

Overall D grade: A-. This is a top 5 defense, IMO. We basically fixed the run D....teams will have to throw on us or punt. I think this D is even better than the 2019 D.

ST units: Slater and Bethel...two of the best gunners, baby! Folk is serviceable at kicker....Bailey is a top 3 punter, IMO. Olszewski is getting the hang of it...and should make more plays this year. I think we need a good KOR though....and BB is still signing ST aces.....we have too many guys...including guys like Bolden and KIng who kick ass...hope we can keep most of them.

ST units grade: A+

 

[Bill Lee]

Interesting line of reasoning from a recent podcast that I'll apply to Cam:

Was Cam good enough last year to lift the team around him? No.

Was the team around Cam good enough to lift him? No.

At least we made huge strides on one of those two problems.

We have a legit WRs. We do not have an elite one. The question is is having an elite one mandatory when we already have 2 Pro-Bowl -potential TEs.

And the question is who do we cut so we can afford to pay WR1 money.

 

[FCB02062]

they're a 7 or 8 win team if Newton plays like last year, I don't care how much $ krafty Bob splashed around

 

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting line of reasoning from a recent podcast that I'll apply to Cam:

Was Cam good enough last year to lift the team around him? No.

Was the team around Cam good enough to lift him? No.

At least we made huge strides on one of those two problems.


And the question is who do we cut so we can afford to pay WR1 money.

No one

 

[dustcover]

There are still a few moves they can do, but they look mostly ready right now hrading onto the draft. Here are my grades.

Offense.

QB: Cam/tbd - I think Cam wasn't as bad as some say he was last year. The offense simply didn't have the skill players. That being said, he isn't good enough to take us where we want to go. Grade: D
OL: Brown Mason Andrews Onwenu Wynn back up IOL Karras, back up OT tbd. Overall a very good group with no weak spot. The only question is what happens if Brown or Wynn miss time? But back up OT bring your concern is a good spot. Grade: A-
RB: Harris, White, Michel, Vitals(FB). A very good and diverse group. About the next best thing you can have besides a true super star at the spot. High hopes for Harris. Grafe: B+
TE: Henry, Smith. I'm curious to see who'll be the 3rd TE, but not too curious. This is all about the top 2 guys. Id still rather have Little or Kelce over both next year. Outside of that it's questionable if there will be a team better off in that spot than us. Grade: A-
WR: Agholor, Bourne, Edelman, Meyers. Still not a strong point, but not horrible. If Edelman retires it will look a little worse. While they want have that clear cut number 1 option, they will be able to flood the field with decent targets and try to pick on the weak links. Grade: D+

Overall offensive grade: C (but with a better QB it improves a lot). The lack of a true #1 option hurt, but they can run, protect the QB, and give any D at least some match up issues with their 2 TE set.

DL Guy Godeaux Anderson Judon Wonovich Wise. There is still a lot to work out here, and another piece could be added on the outside imo. While Judon is called an OLB I think he'll mostly play DE for us. A good cast but one more star player would put them over the top. Grade: B
LB: Hightower Van Noy Bentley - A big strength of the team. Grade A-
CB: Gilmore Jackson Jones Williams. I'll assume for now Jackson is staying. I do still hope McCourty comes back. Even without him this group is arguably the best in the NFL. Grade: A
S: McCourty Mills Phillips Dugger. A group that should have a very good top 2. And I like Dugger. Grade B+ (Edit, forgot about Phillips the first time... D'oh!)

Overall Defensive grade: B+ This defense is really more than the sum of it's parts. The only issue it has is that without a 5 man rush I don't see how they reliably get pressure. They have the coverage to pull it off against most teams. Bit against a team with the skill position depth to beat man, they can be had a bit. Not to mention they aren't reallt built to stop TEs or RBs. But you rarely have everything. Overall this D is clearly Championship caliber.

STs Grade: B I'm not getting into this much. Kicker is still a position I wish we were better in. But I like everything else well enough.

Overall Grade: B- right now we look like a typical mid tier WC playoff team. Our coaching advantage is nice. It would be nice to say we're a QB away, but I think we are are kust a tad more than a QB away. Very close though.

I think your grade of D+ for WR's is a bit harsh. I'd lean more toward a B- or C+

 

[patfanken]

You don't want to end up over paying for a WR. But in today's game their value has gone up.

Unless you're an elite defensive team or have Brady it's hard to make the final 4 without sensational pass catchers recently.

Here's a prediction. The WR will VERY soon become the future's version of the RB. That is, easy to find them and with so many out there you won't have to pay them the amounts of money that too many receive today. Sure there will be a few that will get big money, but not like they are getting in todays game. Why? Simply put, "Economics"

In today's pass happy offenses the College game is spewing out 20 odd NFL quality receivers every year. Sure some are better than others but most are good enough to win with......and in the end, THAT is what matters. In a day in the not too distant future, FA WR's will start to see the premium contract start to dry out when the market gets stuffed with quality guys. More guys than there are jobs to have. AND next year there will be another 20, and the next and the next and the next. Get the picture.

DISCLAIMER - When I say these guys won't get paid, I'm speaking in relative terms here. There will be a bunch of guys with 10MM deals, but even as the cap rises, there will be very few if any, 20MM/yr deals.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

QB: B- cam is underrated here, still need to draft a rookie stud
RB: B+ - would love to give this group an A - but Sony is a huge bust
WR: D+ nelson no number 1, Edelman past his prime, Bourne a jag, and harriet all time bust in history, meyers is ok but underused
TE: A Bought two studs
OL: A- Loaded here

Defense:

DL: C+ Where’s a pass rushing specialist?
LB: B
Secondary: B

ST: A. We should be, all those wasted high picks on special teamers

Coaching: A. BB is an amazing in game coach

Drafting : F. BB is the worst gm in the past 5 years at drafting. And hopeless At drafting wide receivers and corners

 

[Zuma]

QB: B- cam is underrated

Okie Dok

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Here's a prediction. The WR will VERY soon become the future's version of the RB. That is, easy to find them and with so many out there you won't have to pay them the amounts of money that too many receive today. Sure there will be a few that will get big money, but not like they are getting in todays game. Why? Simply put, "Economics"

In today's pass happy offenses the College game is spewing out 20 odd NFL quality receivers every year. Sure some are better than others but most are good enough to win with......and in the end, THAT is what matters. In a day in the not too distant future, FA WR's will start to see the premium contract start to dry out when the market gets stuffed with quality guys. More guys than there are jobs to have. AND next year there will be another 20, and the next and the next and the next. Get the picture.

DISCLAIMER - When I say these guys won't get paid, I'm speaking in relative terms here. There will be a bunch of guys with 10MM deals, but even as the cap rises, there will be very few if any, 20MM/yr deals.

bucs just won a Super Bowl with 3 superstar pro bowl WRs