What Kraft Should Have Done Last Year, re: Deflategate

[1960Pats]

Any suggestion that the entirety of any owner's impact on the success of her/his team involves signing any player's paycheck is absurd. You must have slept through the regimes of Billy "The Cheapest Prick in America" and James "Meet Me in St. Louis" Orthwein. If you've been rooting for the Patriots for 56 years and fail to recognize Robert Kraft's contributions to their success, you should have found another team to root for beginning around 1993. I believe most Patriot fans have been frustrated, embarrassed and angered by Kraft's handling of Deflategate. With that said, pretending that he didn't save this franchise and hasn't done an overall good job as an owner reeks of phoniness and ingratitude.

The success of this current team lies at the feet of Brady more than anyone else. Prior to Brady taking over as QB the Kraft owned Pats were a little over .500 in the regular season and a little under in the playoffs, with no SB wins and 1 AFC title.

Meanwhile, the Kraft owned Pats with Brady at the helm are 172-51 in the regular season, 22-9 in the playoffs with 4 SB wins and 6 AFC titles.

BTW, I never said he isn't a good owner, and have praised him in the past on this board. But he isn't nearly as responsible for the success of this team as Brady, and to a lesser degree Belichick.

 

[fgssand]

The success of this current team lies at the feet of Brady more than anyone else. Prior to Brady taking over as QB the Kraft owned Pats were a little over .500 in the regular season and a little under in the playoffs, with no SB wins and 1 AFC title.

Meanwhile, the Kraft owned Pats with Brady at the helm are 172-51 in the regular season, 22-9 in the playoffs with 4 SB wins and 6 AFC titles.

BTW, I never said he isn't a good owner, and have praised him in the past on this board. But he isn't nearly as responsible for the success of this team as Brady, and to a lesser degree Belichick.

No question mostly Brady with BB at the helm are the primary reasons they are 172-51 since BB put and left Brady at QB.

Without Mr Kraft -- That would have happened in Saint Louis.

Kraft is the guy that has put and kept all the pieces together since then.

It's easy to Monday morning QB, but Kraft put it all on the line when he bought the club.

For that, I thank and respect the guy, regardless of the BS over deflategate, which in and of itself is really easy to Monday morning QB and say what should have been done.

 

[AzPatsFan]

The success of this current team lies at the feet of Brady more than anyone else. Prior to Brady taking over as QB the Kraft owned Pats were a little over .500 in the regular season and a little under in the playoffs, with no SB wins and 1 AFC title.

Meanwhile, the Kraft owned Pats with Brady at the helm are 172-51 in the regular season, 22-9 in the playoffs with 4 SB wins and 6 AFC titles.

BTW, I never said he isn't a good owner, and have praised him in the past on this board. But he isn't nearly as responsible for the success of this team as Brady, and to a lesser degree Belichick.

Balogna !!!

More Balogna!!!! Who do you think hired Belichick and gave him the authority needed? Who stood by him as he stripped the roster and turned in a losing season. Imagine a fool owner like Jerry Jones firing his 3 time SB Head Coach. Or imagine the "new season, new coach mentality" of the Browns foolish owner. We could of, and DID have owners like that.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The success of this current team lies at the feet of Brady more than anyone else. Prior to Brady taking over as QB the Kraft owned Pats were a little over .500 in the regular season and a little under in the playoffs, with no SB wins and 1 AFC title.

Meanwhile, the Kraft owned Pats with Brady at the helm are 172-51 in the regular season, 22-9 in the playoffs with 4 SB wins and 6 AFC titles.

BTW, I never said he isn't a good owner, and have praised him in the past on this board. But he isn't nearly as responsible for the success of this team as Brady, and to a lesser degree Belichick.

True, but Bob blew a first-rounder to get Bill on board, baby, and Bill dispatched **** to scout the Orange Bowl, which led to Bobby contacting Lloyd and us drafting TB when nobody else (stupidly) would take him. So to me, they all deserve credit; and they've done it without bumbling (and babbling).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Balogna !!!

More Balogna!!!! Who do you think hired Belichick and gave him the authority needed? Who stood by him as he stripped the roster and turned in a losing season. Imagine a fool owner like Jerry Jones firing his 3 time SB Head Coach. Or imagine the "new season, new coach mentality" of the Browns foolish owner. We could of, and DID have owners like that.

Could've been intentional, I know. But, I really like bologna, since my mom first made me a sandwich for lunch in the first grade. Makes me want to go make one right now. So more bologna, please.

Anyway, you're technically referring to baloney. Or poppycock. Or applesauce (but I like that too; my mom used to make homemade from apples & add cinnamon). How about, horse feathers. Balderdash?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I hope you aren't referring to Pat Patriot as a bad cartoon character, because if you are those are fighting words.



I'm with @Actual Pats Fan on this and I think many others are. We all prefer Pat over Elvis, but I don't think we're as determined to see it changed back. It never will be.

"Rob, this is going to be a very difficult team to run. I'm going to need help. Your help. Your advice."
...You want my advice?
"Yes, I do."
Get rid of the flying elvis. Give us Pat Patriot back.
"Unfortunately, the Commissioner is devoted to his empire...he's particularly fond of New England."
-New England is not fond of the Commissioner.
"Rob, I'm second in authority to my father. He's arriving back here in a few days, from a meeting with Goodell."
Then the rumors are true...
"The Commissioner does not approve of your friends. There is rebellion in the wind. It will be crushed. But the fans would listen if you were to speak out against rebellion. Rob, persuade your people that their resistance to the NFL is stupid. It is worse than stupid, futile. For it can end in only one way-extinction for your people."
I've talked to a number of people already. I've spoken against violence, against incidents. Most of the men I've talked to agree with me-
"-Oh? Not all."
No, not all...
"Well, who does not agree?"
Oh, the resentful, the impatient...
"Who are they? Yes, Rob, who are they."
Would I retain your friendship if I became an informant?
"To tell me the names of criminals is hardly informing."
They're not criminals, Jonathan, they're Patriots-
"Patriots?!"
Yes, like you...
"PATRIOTS!?!...Rob. Rob, let me explain something to you, something you may not know. The Commissioner is watching us. At this moment he watches the East. This is my great opportunity Rob, and yours, too. If I can bring order into New England I can have any post I want. And, you'll rise with me, I promise. And do you know where it can end? New York! Yes, perhaps at the side of Goodell himself! I mean it, I mean it, it can happen and this is the moment Rob, I swear, this is the time. The Commissioner is watching us, judging us. All I need do is serve him...and all you need do is help me...serve him..."
You speak as if he were God.
"He is God. The only God. He is power, real power on Earth! Not, not that. Help me, Rob."
I would do anything for you, Jonathan...except betray my own team...
"In the name of all the gods, Rob, what do the lives of a few fans mean to you?"
If I can not persuade them, that does not mean I would help you murder them...Besides, you must understand this, Jon. I believe in the past of my team, and in its future.
"Future? Pat Patriot is a defunct logo."
You may shut the fans out. You may plaster diamond-encrusted flying elvises on a thousand Super Bowl rings, but that is not the end...We will rise again.
"Ah, you live on dead dreams, you live on the myths of the past. The glory of Grogan's Heroes, Mosi's Mooses is gone, do you think it will return? Jim Nance will not rise again to save you nor Julius Adams. There is only one reality in the world today, look to the South, Rob. Don't be a fool, look to New York!!"
I would rather be a fool than a traitor, or a killer.
"I'm an executive."
Yes, an executive who looks at money and profits and is blind to over thirty years of football history and heroism out there on the field, where it counts, which we saw and rooted for from the stands wherever they were and whatever the seats were made of; and from our homes no matter what channel the game was on...
"I warn you-"
NO!! I warn you! The flying elvis is evil, it's an affront to anyone who ever rooted for the Patriots since 1960, and it is the ONLY blight on the success of Belichick and Brady. I tell you the day the flying elvis falls, there will be a shout of freedom such as we've not heard here in New England since 1776!! Within a year or two, a red Super Bowl championship banner will be raised with our real logo on it, after we finally see our team win one out there on the field.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Rather than bemoan what can't be changed with Bob Kraft, you should consider and contemplate what kind of owner his son Jonathan Kraft may become. Would he have the wisdom, restraint, and leadership to carry on in the shoes of his father?

There are many children who are not at all like their father. Look at the current owner of the Cinncinatti Bengals. He is far from a chip off the old block of Paul Brown, who Bill Belichick considers the best Coach and GM there ever was. Thankfully after many generations, the Bidwells finally produced an offspring who is not a complete congenital idiot, and the Cardinals are prospering after decades of abject mediocrity. The jury is still out on the current Davis guiding the Raiders.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Rather than bemoan what can't be changed with Bob Kraft, you should consider and contemplate what kind of owner his son Jonathan Kraft may become. Would he have the wisdom, restraint, and leadership to carry on in the shoes of his father?

There are many children who are not at all like their father. Look at the current owner of the Cinncinatti Bengals. He is far from a chip off the old block of Paul Brown, who Bill Belichick considers the best Coach and GM there ever was. Thankfully after many generations, the Bidwells finally produced an offspring who is not a complete congenital idiot, and the Cardinals are prospering after decades of abject mediocrity. The jury is still out on the current Davis guiding the Raiders.

Why "can't"? Because Mr. Kraft is too stubborn? "This ... is ... the ... way ... we ...do ... things ... here ..."
CMGI Field was changed, just like that. Gillette was converted to FieldTurf in the middle of a season.
"We are all Patriots...except for those of you who wasted your time for 33 years rooting for a completely different team out there...you're just in limbo, you don't count, you can come buy a throwback breadcrumb but the team out there will continue to be dressed like a bad Arena league retread instead of the pro team we were before St. Louis Orthwein destroyed us." I don't see anybody going halfway across the country to screw up his beloved "Bud" label, now with "America" on it in Olympic ads.






All the Adams guys above dressed in red. Nice color. Nevermind if Redcoats and Romans also wore it.

 

[Boomer B]

Why "can't"? Because Mr. Kraft is too stubborn? "This ... is ... the ... way ... we ...do ... things ... here ..."
CMGI Field was changed, just like that. Gillette was converted to FieldTurf in the middle of a season.
"We are all Patriots...except for those of you who wasted your time for 33 years rooting for a completely different team out there...you're just in limbo, you don't count, you can come buy a throwback breadcrumb but the team out there will continue to be dressed like a bad Arena league retread instead of the pro team we were before St. Louis Orthwein destroyed us." I don't see anybody going halfway across the country to screw up his beloved "Bud" label, now with "America" on it in Olympic ads.






All the Adams guys above dressed in red. Nice color. Nevermind if Redcoats and Romans also wore it.

What the f***?

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Oh for the love of God, the logo argument again?

My personal story: I am "Patsfaninva" because when my family moved when I was 6, I was already hooked. The logical course was to just become a Redskins fan, I was like screw that, even though I barely knew who or what I was rooting for. In fact even though back in Mass we didn't live in the city of Boston, or even any of the other cities that are part of the city of Boston, down here in VA I almost had a child-stroke when we became the New England Patriots. But I grew the **** up people.

You know what Pat Patriot reminds me of? It reminds me of losing, going almost far enough, almost winning, you get the drift. It reminds me of my "Berry the Bears" T-shirt from 86. That super bowl, in which a man named after a large appliance scored a bloody touchdown on us, was the pinnacle of Pat Patriot.

Sorry, pure association. I know it wasn't the logo's fault. I know it's not the logo's fault that on the small sets of those days, I got confused sometimes when I saw an Oilers helmet, because from a distance, they sort of looked the same. Then the next thing I know we've got the Flying Elvis, and I believe the royal blue jerseys still, and we're in a SB but this time it's a real game.

Then OMG we're losing Tuna and Curtis to the JEST, omg the sky is falling, and what do we get back, a retread coach from Cleveland. Mini-Tuna. The guy not good enough to run a Tuna team, a defensive coordinator, ho-hum.

Then Flying Elvis goes from the symbol of "Same Old Pats, a SB a decade, we never win it" to "holy crap." First we win one, then a voice in my heart I tell to be quiet says "what if we start a dynasty?" Then that happens. Then more stuff - a couple of close calls ruined by fluke catches, then SB #4. Don't forget the perfect regular season, and although that's a bad memory, it was still freaking magic while going on.

All of that is tied to Flying Elvis. And you know what, it's got a forward sweep to it and it's better and more modern design than the pissed-off minuteman center.

I know you guys love Pat Patriot, but I've been watching these guys - granted, over the airwaves for the most part - for going on 50 years. Pat Patriot's a pleasant memory with its own place in my heart, but I associate Pat with wishing and hoping to win... and Flying Elvis with league dominance.

I made a goddam "Grogan's Heroes" bedsheet banner to take up to Memorial Stadium in Baltimore at age 16, and they weren't that happy about it in Baltimore I gotta tell you. But the Pat Patriot to Flying Elvis conversion didn't strike me as it struck you. It looked like we were serious and competent, not bumbling twits clinging to a clunky cartoon mascot. Flying Elvis is clean, kinetic, and by now, associated with the most feared franchise of its era.

Love ya Pat, as a throwback hat. Special place in my heart and all that. But I'd be a little sad if the Elvis of Destiny were replaced by the Retro Center of Memory.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What the f***?

ikr? My guess is some kind of Star Wars thing or Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones.

I got your allusion right here... with the understanding that the sentiments therein do not reflect my view of Kraft... just playing devil's advocate for you...

"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has a line of scrimmage. And that line has to be guarded by men with pads. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Patsfans.com? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Pat Patriot and you curse the front office. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Pat Patriot's death, while tragic, probably won games. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins games...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about on the internet, you want me in that owner's box. You need me in that owner's box. We use words like 'do your job' ...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the NFL-branded gear I promote, then questions the manner in which I promote it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a clipboard or break down some tape. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!"

 

[sieglo]

Brady should have inoculated himself from media scrutiny by declaring himself a Democrat.

 

[1960Pats]

Balogna !!!

More Balogna!!!! Who do you think hired Belichick and gave him the authority needed? Who stood by him as he stripped the roster and turned in a losing season. Imagine a fool owner like Jerry Jones firing his 3 time SB Head Coach. Or imagine the "new season, new coach mentality" of the Browns foolish owner. We could of, and DID have owners like that.

Are we talking about the same guy who called Belichick a schmuck in 2007 and chose his fellow owners over Brady in 2014?

 

[1960Pats]

Could've been intentional, I know. But, I really like bologna, since my mom first made me a sandwich for lunch in the first grade. Makes me want to go make one right now. So more bologna, please.

Anyway, you're technically referring to baloney. Or poppycock. Or applesauce (but I like that too; my mom used to make homemade from apples & add cinnamon). How about, horse feathers. Balderdash?

What do you put on your baloney sandwich? I alternate between mustard and mayo depending on my mood. I never cared much for the fried baloney that some folks like.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Oh for the love of God, the logo argument again?

My personal story: I am "Patsfaninva" because when my family moved when I was 6, I was already hooked. The logical course was to just become a Redskins fan, I was like screw that, even though I barely knew who or what I was rooting for. In fact even though back in Mass we didn't live in the city of Boston, or even any of the other cities that are part of the city of Boston, down here in VA I almost had a child-stroke when we became the New England Patriots. But I grew the **** up people.

You know what Pat Patriot reminds me of? It reminds me of losing, going almost far enough, almost winning, you get the drift. It reminds me of my "Berry the Bears" T-shirt from 86. That super bowl, in which a man named after a large appliance scored a bloody touchdown on us, was the pinnacle of Pat Patriot.

Sorry, pure association. I know it wasn't the logo's fault. I know it's not the logo's fault that on the small sets of those days, I got confused sometimes when I saw an Oilers helmet, because from a distance, they sort of looked the same. Then the next thing I know we've got the Flying Elvis, and I believe the royal blue jerseys still, and we're in a SB but this time it's a real game.

Then OMG we're losing Tuna and Curtis to the JEST, omg the sky is falling, and what do we get back, a retread coach from Cleveland. Mini-Tuna. The guy not good enough to run a Tuna team, a defensive coordinator, ho-hum.

Then Flying Elvis goes from the symbol of "Same Old Pats, a SB a decade, we never win it" to "holy crap." First we win one, then a voice in my heart I tell to be quiet says "what if we start a dynasty?" Then that happens. Then more stuff - a couple of close calls ruined by fluke catches, then SB #4. Don't forget the perfect regular season, and although that's a bad memory, it was still freaking magic while going on.

All of that is tied to Flying Elvis. And you know what, it's got a forward sweep to it and it's better and more modern design than the pissed-off minuteman center.

I know you guys love Pat Patriot, but I've been watching these guys - granted, over the airwaves for the most part - for going on 50 years. Pat Patriot's a pleasant memory with its own place in my heart, but I associate Pat with wishing and hoping to win... and Flying Elvis with league dominance.

I made a goddam "Grogan's Heroes" bedsheet banner to take up to Memorial Stadium in Baltimore at age 16, and they weren't that happy about it in Baltimore I gotta tell you. But the Pat Patriot to Flying Elvis conversion didn't strike me as it struck you. It looked like we were serious and competent, not bumbling twits clinging to a clunky cartoon mascot. Flying Elvis is clean, kinetic, and by now, associated with the most feared franchise of its era.

Love ya Pat, as a throwback hat. Special place in my heart and all that. But I'd be a little sad if the Elvis of Destiny were replaced by the Retro Center of Memory.

Thank you for sharing, and thanks for the banner, glad you survived. I believe you speak for a large contingent. In 1979, the Celtics were the picture of humiliation, and Red nearly left; but when they turned over pretty much the entire front office and roster they did not destroy their logo and uniforms. Many fans, like you, simply care about winning. If in fact you were watching for 33 years you were NOT thinking, "I've seen Jim Nance, Babe Parilli, Darryl Stingley, Steve Nelson et al. and look forward to our team winning, and beating all those other lousy teams (including the Redskins, despise them). You're thinking, "I want to be the Ravens. Or the Texans. I want to win. Screw the past. We never won the big one. I want a winner." Okay, no problem. Stop calling the team "Patriots." We real fans booed the flying elvis' virtually identical ancestor out of the stadium because it sucks and is not our logo. The Baltimore Colts are dead. The Houston Oilers are dead. Fortunately for those cities, they have new teams. In the "1995 Patriots" thread, I responded, "If we had our real logo and uniforms, I would have watched, and cared." But Mo Lewis knocked Bledsoe finally, mercifully out of there and he just happened to be replaced by a guy who is at the very least among the GOAT. There has been some refreshingly good football played here since, albeit with players dressed like spacemen. The really unprecedented attacks on the team by its own league, and the corresponding derision and condemnation of them by the national propaganda machine, underscores its appearance of a fly-by-night, expansion, "unworthy" group. It's clearly too late to do anything this season, I think, but restoring our real logo and uniforms for 2017, for example would make a clear statement to the world: We are not a bush league team, we have been here since 1960, we do in fact acknowledge and respect all the players and fans we've had since, we're not going anywhere, and the people and football fans of New England are in fact not a bunch of bandwagon, whining crybabies who do not deserve a champion.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

What do you put on your baloney sandwich? I alternate between mustard and mayo depending on my mood. I never cared much for the fried baloney that some folks like.

Mayo. Jerod Mayo. Universal Exports.

I like lettuce too, maybe some onion and even tomato.

I'm hungry.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Oh for the love of God, the logo argument again?

My personal story: I am "Patsfaninva" because when my family moved when I was 6, I was already hooked. The logical course was to just become a Redskins fan, I was like screw that, even though I barely knew who or what I was rooting for. In fact even though back in Mass we didn't live in the city of Boston, or even any of the other cities that are part of the city of Boston, down here in VA I almost had a child-stroke when we became the New England Patriots. But I grew the **** up people.

You know what Pat Patriot reminds me of? It reminds me of losing, going almost far enough, almost winning, you get the drift. It reminds me of my "Berry the Bears" T-shirt from 86. That super bowl, in which a man named after a large appliance scored a bloody touchdown on us, was the pinnacle of Pat Patriot.

Sorry, pure association. I know it wasn't the logo's fault. I know it's not the logo's fault that on the small sets of those days, I got confused sometimes when I saw an Oilers helmet, because from a distance, they sort of looked the same. Then the next thing I know we've got the Flying Elvis, and I believe the royal blue jerseys still, and we're in a SB but this time it's a real game.

Then OMG we're losing Tuna and Curtis to the JEST, omg the sky is falling, and what do we get back, a retread coach from Cleveland. Mini-Tuna. The guy not good enough to run a Tuna team, a defensive coordinator, ho-hum.

Then Flying Elvis goes from the symbol of "Same Old Pats, a SB a decade, we never win it" to "holy crap." First we win one, then a voice in my heart I tell to be quiet says "what if we start a dynasty?" Then that happens. Then more stuff - a couple of close calls ruined by fluke catches, then SB #4. Don't forget the perfect regular season, and although that's a bad memory, it was still freaking magic while going on.

All of that is tied to Flying Elvis. And you know what, it's got a forward sweep to it and it's better and more modern design than the pissed-off minuteman center.

I know you guys love Pat Patriot, but I've been watching these guys - granted, over the airwaves for the most part - for going on 50 years. Pat Patriot's a pleasant memory with its own place in my heart, but I associate Pat with wishing and hoping to win... and Flying Elvis with league dominance.

I made a goddam "Grogan's Heroes" bedsheet banner to take up to Memorial Stadium in Baltimore at age 16, and they weren't that happy about it in Baltimore I gotta tell you. But the Pat Patriot to Flying Elvis conversion didn't strike me as it struck you. It looked like we were serious and competent, not bumbling twits clinging to a clunky cartoon mascot. Flying Elvis is clean, kinetic, and by now, associated with the most feared franchise of its era.

Love ya Pat, as a throwback hat. Special place in my heart and all that. But I'd be a little sad if the Elvis of Destiny were replaced by the Retro Center of Memory.

...So the Red Sox' logo is associated with the Babe Ruth curse, racism and four lost World Series seventh games...

The flying elvis is only associated with needlessly losing the best logo in sports, the "Tuck" rule, "Spygate", "Ray Lewis' retirement", ten titleless years, "Deflategate", "Peyton Manning's retirement" and every time seeing the "Patriots" thinking, "Well, SNL is over, American Gladiators is on, time to turn the TV off."

 

[PatsFanInVa]

...So the Red Sox' logo is associated with the Babe Ruth curse, racism and four lost World Series seventh games...

The flying elvis is only associated with needlessly losing the best logo in sports, the "Tuck" rule, "Spygate", "Ray Lewis' retirement", ten titleless years, "Deflategate", "Peyton Manning's retirement" and every time seeing the "Patriots" thinking, "Well, SNL is over, American Gladiators is on, time to turn the TV off."

If you say so.

All I said was my personal feelings - yes, you have accurately parroted the word "associated" a few times above - about Pat Patriot.

The above is just silly. 'Ten titleless years" is particularly entertaining (except for the bandwagon jumpers).

I respect your right to your opinion - you like the cartoon center - and totally respect that this stuff is subjective. However, there's an objective reality to design trends.

Pat Patriot is a 60s era cartoon. It is our version of that goody, doesn't-scare-anybody, cartoon horse the donks used to have. Frankly I think Elway got rid of it because it looked too much like him, but I digress. The cyberhorse look is better for the donks, and you know as well as I do that "Pat Patriot" would just be considered goofy in a vacuum. The only reason to bring it back is that people are nostalgic.

It's a 60s-era icon that has its own place in history. Nobody would design that logo today. For anything.

I have memories from the Pat Patriot era, and lots of them are good ones, don't get me wrong. If the Red Sox logo - which for baseball actually still works for me - got retired in 2000, I'd be okay. But in baseball old-timey is good. It's actually got a certain dignity compared with Pat Patriot.

Pat's just what we got. I don't know how. But we invested a lot of love in Pat, and I get that you're sad about him being gone.

But removing all loyalty, he's a pissed-off colonial era center. I mean - if we leave aside loyalty and emotion - Pat's just okay (and that's for its day). Now, it's just plain weird. That said, he was much better than the shall we say flamboyant pirate they had in Tampa. All loyalty aside again, though, the less flamboyant eyepatch pirate from Oakland was a better design. You know, inherently menacing.

Flying Elvis is good - it is what it is.

I guess to pick it apart there are like 10 mixed metaphors going on in Pat Patriot. He's from the colonial era but playing football. Okay I guess, that's the idea, but why does he have to play football? The raider doesn't play football. Nobody else w/human mascots have them playing football. The insensitive Indian head team down here never had the caricature playing football. He just was.

Okay then he has to be the center, which I guess is as good a position as any. Looks like he might hit you real hard after he snaps the ball to John Freakin Hancock or whoever. But this is weird too, looking that pissed off. You notice all the other human mascots are just being what they are, our designer said "Yeah but he's not a pansy Patriot, he's... he's gonna be real mad!"

I think that's because our guy represents the good guys, through everything we've learned in grade school. Whatever has happened in the field of history to correct that image, we're the good guy. A pirate is going to take your gold and make you walk the plank from the get-go. So we had to make him all pissed off, because the good guy by definition never did anything "wrong," so he's not menacing until you make him menacing. A lot of work there. And you have to count on really good eyesight to see that Pat is pissed off.

Like I said, I love Pat Patriot from years of exposure, but I was fine with retiring him.

Look at today's logos. There's nothing like Pat left. He wasn't bad at the time, certainly better than the whole name of the team written out in an oval, but what do you expect.

By the way, here are the original AFL logos, just for fun.


More cartoon guys, same era


Doesn't Pat feel to you like a product of that time?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

If you say so.

All I said was my personal feelings - yes, you have accurately parroted the word "associated" a few times above - about Pat Patriot.

The above is just silly. 'Ten titleless years" is particularly entertaining (except for the bandwagon jumpers).

I respect your right to your opinion - you like the cartoon center - and totally respect that this stuff is subjective. However, there's an objective reality to design trends.

Pat Patriot is a 60s era cartoon. It is our version of that goody, doesn't-scare-anybody, cartoon horse the donks used to have. Frankly I think Elway got rid of it because it looked too much like him, but I digress. The cyberhorse look is better for the donks, and you know as well as I do that "Pat Patriot" would just be considered goofy in a vacuum. The only reason to bring it back is that people are nostalgic.

It's a 60s-era icon that has its own place in history. Nobody would design that logo today. For anything.

I have memories from the Pat Patriot era, and lots of them are good ones, don't get me wrong. If the Red Sox logo - which for baseball actually still works for me - got retired in 2000, I'd be okay. But in baseball old-timey is good. It's actually got a certain dignity compared with Pat Patriot.

Pat's just what we got. I don't know how. But we invested a lot of love in Pat, and I get that you're sad about him being gone.

But removing all loyalty, he's a pissed-off colonial era center. I mean - if we leave aside loyalty and emotion - Pat's just okay (and that's for its day). Now, it's just plain weird. That said, he was much better than the shall we say flamboyant pirate they had in Tampa. All loyalty aside again, though, the less flamboyant eyepatch pirate from Oakland was a better design. You know, inherently menacing.

Flying Elvis is good - it is what it is.

I guess to pick it apart there are like 10 mixed metaphors going on in Pat Patriot. He's from the colonial era but playing football. Okay I guess, that's the idea, but why does he have to play football? The raider doesn't play football. Nobody else w/human mascots have them playing football. The insensitive Indian head team down here never had the caricature playing football. He just was.

Okay then he has to be the center, which I guess is as good a position as any. Looks like he might hit you real hard after he snaps the ball to John Freakin Hancock or whoever. But this is weird too, looking that pissed off. You notice all the other human mascots are just being what they are, our designer said "Yeah but he's not a pansy Patriot, he's... he's gonna be real mad!"

I think that's because our guy represents the good guys, through everything we've learned in grade school. Whatever has happened in the field of history to correct that image, we're the good guy. A pirate is going to take your gold and make you walk the plank from the get-go. So we had to make him all pissed off, because the good guy by definition never did anything "wrong," so he's not menacing until you make him menacing. A lot of work there. And you have to count on really good eyesight to see that Pat is pissed off.

Like I said, I love Pat Patriot from years of exposure, but I was fine with retiring him.

Look at today's logos. There's nothing like Pat left. He wasn't bad at the time, certainly better than the whole name of the team written out in an oval, but what do you expect.

By the way, here are the original AFL logos, just for fun.


More cartoon guys, same era


Doesn't Pat feel to you like a product of that time?

Chiefs, Jets, Raiders-unchanged today, classy.
Packers, Steelers, Cowboys fans would have conniption if their logos/unis were replaced.
So baseball is different. At least Celtics haven't lost their minds. Bruins (Jacobs) hopeless, silliest looking now of the Original Six.

Pats now? Stupid and ugly. Silver helmets. Like the Raiders, Cowboys, Lions. Ugh. Those uniforms are unfit for semi-pro, never mind Pop Warner.

Lots of people like you, don't care. Given the choice today, lots of people would choose flying elvis simply because, again, they neither knew nor cared ANYTHING about the team before 1993, and they think (due to Tom and Bill) the replacement represents winning.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Chiefs, Jets, Raiders-unchanged today, classy.
Packers, Steelers, Cowboys fans would have conniption if their logos/unis were replaced.
So baseball is different. At least Celtics haven't lost their minds. Bruins (Jacobs) hopeless, silliest looking now of the Original Six.

Pats now? Stupid and ugly. Silver helmets. Like the Raiders, Cowboys, Lions. Ugh. Those uniforms are unfit for semi-pro, never mind Pop Warner.

Lots of people like you, don't care. Given the choice today, lots of people would choose flying elvis simply because, again, they neither knew nor cared ANYTHING about the team before 1993, and they think (due to Tom and Bill) the replacement represents winning.

It's all subjective. I remember when Flying Elvis came out, for about 10 minutes I thought... wait... Pat's gone? Really? This isn't some kind of experiment or something??? You've got to be... hey, those are pretty cool!

I lived with Pat Patriot for a while and he was OUR decal, so there was a little pain. But aesthetically the new unis are an improvement, to me. Truth? I've been all in since late 60s and I could lose Pat Patriot in about 10 minutes. So "people like me" aren't bandwagon fans, or fans of winning that might as well go to the next team, or whatever, we're long-time Pats fans that just dealt better with the change.

Also Darryl Stingley didn't have a flying elvis, and look what happened. Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

The switch from royal blue to Navy was perfect to complete the feel... blue is soothing, navy is dark enough to make you go "oh oh." (Despite Chris Berman's insistence that SD's powder blue unis are the best evah.)

But to each his own