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Julian Edelman doesn't tend to get the credit and respect he deserves around the league, but one former player took notice in a recent ESPN segment, putting him ahead of some notable names which created some controversy.

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Well it's official: Tom Brady, #1 Quarterback in NFL History

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by One-Be-Lo, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Most certainly Kareem Abdul-Jabar, who I think belongs with Russell and Jordan in the GOAT discussion.

    6X champion
    6x MVP
    19x (!) all-star

    Not that all-star appearances should decide the debate, but consider his greatness over such a long period. First championship was 1971; last one was 1988!
     
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  2. 1960Pats

    1960Pats PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't want to be too critical of the anti-Russell fans because most of them never saw him play. As we know he was 6'9" and @SammyBlueCat quick.
     
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  3. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Amazing that he was able to finally accomplish this in the offseason.
     
  4. UptownPatsFan

    UptownPatsFan Standin' Pat

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    .
     
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  5. UptownPatsFan

    UptownPatsFan Standin' Pat

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    You’re proving my point. Russell was dominant because he was great AND also was one of the biggest guys in the league. There were only a couple dozen teams back then! Jordan was a guard who dominated
     
  6. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I guess we disagree AJ, but I don't think it's fair to undervalue players and records just because they happened a long time ago in a different era.

    I think it's a stronger argument that statistics today are inflated by comparison due to expansion and exponentially better treatment of pro athletes.

    I know that Bobby Orr's statistics were very likely aided by the former, but salaries and medical treatment were definitely vastly better in Wayne Gretzky's time right afterward.
     
  7. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can quickly name ten guys better than MJ whom I would pick before him to start a team.
     
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  8. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which is absolutely not what I did.

    You cited “leading the league”. The size of the league is substantial to that point.
    You cited passing, punting and interceptions as if it made him a better player to do all
    3 when for the vast majority of nfl history no one does. Anachronism isn’t greatness.

    This has nothing at all to do with my point.
     
  9. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thirty years from now, they'll be saying the same things about Tom.

    Inconvenient. Just like Russ.
     
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  10. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Magic had gone to Boston, we might have won one title.

    Had Bird gone to the Lakers, you're looking at least seven titles, maybe ten.
     
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  11. BaconGrundleCandy

    BaconGrundleCandy Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Always bugs me when peeps don't put enough respect on MJ's D.

    Forget about what he did on the offensive end.

    23 was a top 10 all time defender. Defense is an afterthought in today's game, esp on the ball D. 23 along w maybe the best defender of all time Pippen was a beast on that end of the court.

    Those Bulls teams were absolute terrors in terms of defense. Pip, MJ, Rodman, Harper, Grant, Brown etc were all great defenders. Man Ron Harper was a such a beast.

    At times MJ would literally be the only offensive threat on the court for Chi.
     
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  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    I’m all fuggn triggered...let’s argue!:mad:
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually Russell played against a great number of very good big men, many of whom were bigger than Bill Russell. Chamberlin, Nate Thurmond, Zelmo Beatty, Walt Bellamy, Willis Reed, Wayne Embry. So Bussel was playing against a HOF Center 2/3 of the games he played in a year.
     
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  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    I’m glad your thread title didn’t say “Welp” rather than “Well”. :D

    I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve had to correct people that actually used that non-word in spoken conversation.

    Regarding Brady as the GOAT...everyone knows
     
  15. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don’t think so. Montana was regarded as the GOAT for 20+ years after his retirement and would have remained there if it weren’t for Brady. Unless there’s massive expansion, like the NFL having 64 teams across the globe, Brady is the GOAT unless someone wins a heck of a lot championships. Brady’s stats will one day look unimpressive, just as every generation is statistically outdone by the next one one, but 30 playoff wins, nine conference championships, and six Super Bowls....safe to say someone would need to have a nearly impossibly good career to surpass him.
     
  16. Flash

    Flash Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Is Russell Wilson actually one of the 20 greatest QB of all time? He's really good, consistently among the best, no denying that, but the guy has no MVPs, no All-Pros, not even SB MVP. If we are only comparing careers, he's not better than Ben Roethlisberger but he's ranked 1 spot ahead of him. I don't think Russell Wilson is the 18th greatest QB of all time, not yet.
     
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  17. wpdougie2180

    wpdougie2180 On the Game Day Roster

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    Jordan often gets credit for this (He also changed the game in that he became the first guard that DOMINATED the league in a time when it was damn near impossible to win a championship without a dominant big man WHILE HE HIMSELF did not have a dominant big man. EVER. ) but it simply isn't true. Isiah was a guard that led his team to championships before Jordan & beat Jordan while doing it, I'd actually say he could be said as the 1st guard to dominate the league without a great big man seeing as he made 3 straight Finals. Also the Finals immediately before Jordan's 1st Finals was played by 2 guard led teams in Portland & Detroit.

    Jordan has such mythology that everything starts to blend together & he is often credited with things that aren't true.
     
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  18. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It’s a laughable ranking. The guy is closer to average than elite. When your offense puts up closer to average ppg than the most ppg, over many seasons, it’s because the QB is closer to average than elite. The Seahawks never have an imposing offense despite having, just like every other team, their share of booms and busts over Wilson’s career. Wilson is truly the most overrated QB in the NFL...elite QB offenses score a lot of points. I don’t care what his passer rating is...he can’t see the field without scrambling and holds the ball way too long, which isn’t calculated into that equation. He is not a top-20 all-time QB, or even close to that ranking.

    He does have a low INT rate..I’ll give him credit for that.
     
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  19. nabwong

    nabwong Vice President of Boycott NFL Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are we talking football or basketball here? Doesn’t matter. Brady is the basketball goat too. He has missed zero shots in his career!
     
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  20. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS On the Game Day Roster

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    Best 3 QB's I have watched would be Brady, Montana and Staubach. Game always seemed to be in reach and they often came through when the game was biggest and the chips were down.

    I have a hard time evaluating modern QBs with the increased efficiency stats and particularly someone like Brees. His stats are spectacular but how much of that was due to playing against prevent defenses when his team was way down? Plus he has probably played more games in a dome or favorable weather conditions than any QB in history. Those favorable conditions also hurt his defense and while his defense has adversely impacted his W/L record it has also allowed/forced him to be in catch up/throw every down mode way more times than someone like Brady. Not surprising that a dome QB whose team has been average several seasons would have such large counting stats. QB rating - Overall 97.7 - Dome - 104.2, outdoors - 91.2. Slight more games played in dome than outdoors. Brady - Overall 97.6 - Dome - 109.0, outdoors 96.9. Only played 14 games in a dome.

    There are few independent stats in football unlike baseball. Without context metrics are incredibly deceiving that's why QB wins mean the most to me. How much credit should Brady get on the Super Bowl TD drive where he threw for 67 of the 69 yards gained yet they ran it in from the 2 or the 3 straight TD drives against the Chiefs in the 4th Qtr/OT when they passed for majority of yards yet ran in all 3 TD's? (I'd argue a ton of credit) Has the Pats defense truly been top 10 regularly during Brady's career (as rated by points against) or do they benefit immensely from him and their dominant offense rarely putting them in bad positions? DVOA would argue that they have been closer to average but again that rating lacks context as I'd imagine the Pats give up more garbage time yards and points than just about any team in history (see Chargers playoff game as most recent example)

    Manning, Brees, Rogers, Marino are all terrific players but their post season failures drop them down in ratings for me.
     
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