Well it's official: Tom Brady, #1 Quarterback in NFL History

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Really? That is not what he said. Not even close. He rattled off a half dozen names and when he came to Bird he said "Bird could do anything." He never came close to definitively saying Bird was the GOAT.

I get that the Larry Bird homers dont want to hear it. But saying Bird is the GOAT BB player of all time is an insult to Tom Brady.

Get some perspective and objectivity homers. You scare me.

Yeah, Bird is a Boston legend and certainly deserves to the mentioned when talking about the greatest players ever, but it’s absurd to say he’s the GOAT.

The thing is, you look at someone like Bird (3x champion) and other local legends like that, and someone like that should be ranked above Manning for his sport and league. Bird is a winner and, even if he wasn’t the GOAT, is a legend. People don’t really care if he’s the GOAT against others because he’s a city legend and ultimate winner. Manning? Do people in Indy or Denver even look back fondly on him? Seems more like regret, blaming, and disappointment. But, yeah, he’s the third greatest ever...lol

 

[TN patriot fan]

Who's this Brady guy?

 

[patsfan13]

Really? That is not what he said. Not even close. He rattled off a half dozen names and when he came to Bird he said "Bird could do anything." He never came close to definitively saying Bird was the GOAT.

I get that the Larry Bird homers dont want to hear it. But saying Bird is the GOAT BB player of all time is an insult to Tom Brady.

Get some perspective and objectivity homers. You scare me.

Actually I don't think that Bird is the best Celtic, I reserve that for William Felton Russell the greatest player in the History of Team Sports in the USA.
Try out this other comment by Kareem about Bird.

 

[1960Pats]

Bird was never considered the best athlete either - but many (including a lot of his peers) rank him the NBA GoAT.

Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT and 2nd place isn't even close.

 

[Uptown]

Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT and 2nd place isn't even close.

Jordan

 

[SBLIII]

Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT and 2nd place isn't even close.

Delusional.

 

[Bruins29]

Delusional.

No. Someone claiming Bird is the GOAT is delusional. There are plenty of intelligent pieces on why Russell could be considered the GOAT. Try reading some.

Michael Jordan Confirms Bill Russell is the Real GOAT

Michael Jordan vs. BIll Russell: Why Russell Is Better

Phil Jackson would take Bill Russell, not Michael Jordan, as first player to start team

 

[SBLIII]

No. Someone claiming Bird is the GOAT is delusional. There are plenty of intelligent pieces on why Russell could be considered the GOAT. Try reading some.

Michael Jordan Confirms Bill Russell is the Real GOAT

Michael Jordan vs. BIll Russell: Why Russell Is Better

Phil Jackson would take Bill Russell, not Michael Jordan, as first player to start team

No need to.

Russell played against farmers in a 8-9 team league. I cannot take this claim seriously at all. Same goes for Wilt although his game would probably translate better to todays game.

Either way there are a clear top 2 in Jordan and LeBron and then several like Shaq, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell and Wilt can make a claim.

I personally feel most comfortable by a wide margin ranking Kareem #3.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Bill Russell is the NBA GOAT and 2nd place isn't even close.

All I know is that my father in-law in 75 and a huge sports fan. Ironically he likes the Lakers and Yankees, but I love the guy. He’s actually been alive for all this and followed it all. A few years ago, I said rather casually that Jordan was the GOAT, and he basically laughed. He said Russell was the best basketball player who ever lived, and this is coming from a bitter rival. He said it wasn’t even close, as you’ve stated.

I think it’s is certainly closer than that because Russell played my in the pre-expansion era. However, I think it’s a very reasonable argument that Russell is indeed the GOAT. He’s almost an inconvenient factor who needs to be discounted when the GOAT discussions take place because if you factor in championships (like Jordan having six) and take it to the logical next step, Russell obliterates the debate.

I think Russell, Kareem, and Jordan are top 3 in some order. Next tier is LeBron, Magic, and maybe Bird, Robertson and Chamberlain. Olajuwon and Shaq would round out top 10. I feel like I’m missing someone in here. Kobe would definitely be 11...not hating on that dude’s game.

 

[1960Pats]

No need to.

Russell played against farmers in a 8-9 team league. I cannot take this claim seriously at all. Same goes for Wilt although his game would probably translate better to todays game.

Either way there are a clear top 2 in Jordan and LeBron and then several like Shaq, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell and Wilt can make a claim.

I personally feel most comfortable by a wide margin ranking Kareem #3.

This less teams argument actually works against you. Less teams means more talent on each team. In Russell's last season he was a player/coach and his team defeated the Lakers with a starting five that included Wilt, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West, three HOF players.

 

[1960Pats]

Jordan

Michael Jordan didn't have much success until Bird was gone and he would have had even less against Russell.

 

[patsfan13]

This less teams argument actually works against you. Less teams means more talent on each team. In Russell's last season he was a player/coach and his team defeated the Lakers with a starting five that included Wilt, Oscar Robertson and Jerry West, three HOF players.

The 3rd HOF player was Elgin Baylor not Oscar.

 

[1960Pats]

All I know is that my father in-law in 75 and a huge sports fan. Ironically he likes the Lakers and Yankees, but I love the guy. He’s actually been alive for all this and followed it all. A few years ago, I said rather casually that Jordan was the GOAT, and he basically laughed. He said Russell was the best basketball player who ever lived, and this is coming from a bitter rival. He said it wasn’t even close, as you’ve stated.

I think it’s is certainly closer than that because Russell played my in the pre-expansion era. However, I think it’s a very reasonable argument that Russell is indeed the GOAT. He’s almost an inconvenient factor who needs to be discounted when the GOAT discussions take place because if you factor in championships (like Jordan having six) and take it to the logical next step, Russell obliterates the debate.

I think Russell, Kareem, and Jordan are top 3 in some order. Next tier is LeBron, Magic, and maybe Bird, Robertson and Chamberlain. Olajuwon and Shaq would round out top 10. I feel like I’m missing someone in here. Kobe would definitely be 11...not hating on that dude’s game.

IMHO the pre-expansion era was tougher. The talent was concentrated on less teams and there weren't any cakewalk playoff rounds like there are now.

The funny thing about the title debate is that there are many players with more than Jordan. One of them even played in the same era as Jordan but you never hear him being mentioned.

I sometimes wonder if it isn't the Nike marketing campaign that makes some of their clients over-rated.

 

[patsfan13]

All I know is that my father in-law in 75 and a huge sports fan. Ironically he likes the Lakers and Yankees, but I love the guy. He’s actually been alive for all this and followed it all. A few years ago, I said rather casually that Jordan was the GOAT, and he basically laughed. He said Russell was the best basketball player who ever lived, and this is coming from a bitter rival. He said it wasn’t even close, as you’ve stated.

I think it’s is certainly closer than that because Russell played my in the pre-expansion era. However, I think it’s a very reasonable argument that Russell is indeed the GOAT. He’s almost an inconvenient factor who needs to be discounted when the GOAT discussions take place because if you factor in championships (like Jordan having six) and take it to the logical next step, Russell obliterates the debate.

I think Russell, Kareem, and Jordan are top 3 in some order. Next tier is LeBron, Magic, and maybe Bird, Robertson and Chamberlain. Olajuwon and Shaq would round out top 10. I feel like I’m missing someone in here. Kobe would definitely be 11...not hating on that dude’s game.

I am 66 and saw Russell play, he is the GOAT. As my father said he makes his teammates better.

 

[1960Pats]

I am 66 and saw Russell play, he is the GOAT. As my father said he makes his teammates better.

The thing that I found fascinating about Russell was that he didn't fall for the up-fakes, like most shot-blockers would. When asked about that he simply said that he waited for the ball to leave the shooters hand before he jumped. He was quick enough to do that.

 

[jimnance]

There are only 2 guys in the NBA goat conversation and that's the overwhelming consensus of former players,coaches media and experts:
MJ and Russell. Period. Lot of legit arguments over the next 4or 5 guys since Kobe and LeBron have joined the discussion along with Magic, Bird, Kareem,Big O,Wilt and Olajuwan.(not in order). All those guys have strong cases.
But 1 and 2 are in a class by themselves.

 

[Uptown]

Michael Jordan didn't have much success until Bird was gone and he would have had even less against Russell.

Fair point...BUT he was a SG going against dynastic teams/players. He also changed the game in that he became the first guard that DOMINATED the league in a time when it was damn near impossible to win a championship without a dominant big man WHILE HE HIMSELF did not have a dominant big man. EVER. He also played in the era with the most dominant big men in NBA history (minus Wilt/Russell). Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Kareem, Parrish, McHale, Duncan, Robinson, Mourning, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Walton, Garnett, Rodman, (end of career), Terry Cummings, Horace Grant, Otis Thorpe, Nance, C-Webb, Mutumbo, Sabonis, McAdoo, Gilmore, Ralph Sampson, Bill Laimbeer, Jack Sikma, Daughterty, Mark Eaton, Daryl Dawkins, Rick Smits, Dan Issel, Sam Perkins, Jermaine O’Neal etc etc etc..... he also made the game international.

Most importantly..
Michael Jordan played in a more competitive league. People forget that when Bill Russell, whom I greatly respect, was playing in the NBA, there were between 8–14 teams. The Boston Celtics got the lion's share of the talent and Russell played with more fellow hall of famers than any other player of his caliber at the time. Bill was a hell of a player though!!!
Arguably the best defender of all time along with Dennis Rodman.
But yeah, Jordan is the GOAT & it ain’t close.

 

[jimnance]

Fair point...BUT he was a SG going against dynastic teams/players. He also changed the game in that he became the first guard that DOMINATED the league in a time when it was damn near impossible to win a championship without a dominant big man WHILE HE HIMSELF did not have a dominant big man. EVER. He also played in the era with the most dominant big men in NBA history (minus Wilt/Russell). He also made the game international.

Most importantly..
Michael Jordan played in a more competitive league. People forget that when Bill Russell, whom I greatly respect, was playing in the NBA, there were between 8–14 teams. The Boston Celtics got the lion's share of the talent and Russell played with more fellow hall of famers than any other player of his caliber at the time. Bill was a hell of a player though!!!
Arguably the best defender of all time along with Dennis Rodman.
But yeah, Jordan is the GOAT & it ain’t close.

No Russell faced tougher competition than MJ.
As someone else pointed out, fewer teams mean more quality players per team.
The more teams there are,the more watered-down the talent becomes. That's true for every team sport.
The Russell-era Celtics never or rarely were the most talented team. They played against the original superteams in Philly and LA.
The C's were mostly a collection of very good role-players, not unlike a lot of BB/TB era Pats' teams.
That Lakers squad with Wilt, West,Baylor,Goodrich etc is still the greatest collection of NBA talent on one team.More than any GS squad. Russell destroyed them.
I lean towards MJ as the goat but Russell is clearly#2 and hes WAY ahead of whoever is #3.

 

[Uptown]

No Russell faced tougher competition than MJ.
As someone else pointed out, fewer teams mean more quality players per team.
The more teams there are,the more watered-down the talent becomes. That's true for every team sport.
The Russell-era Celtics never or rarely were the most talented team. They played against the original superteams in Philly and LA.
The C's were mostly a collection of very good role-players, not unlike a lot of BB/TB era Pats' teams.
That Lakers squad with Wilt, West,Baylor,Goodrich etc is still the greatest collection of NBA talent on one team.More than any GS squad. Russell destroyed them.
I lean towards MJ as the goat but Russell is clearly#2 and hes WAY ahead of whoever is #3.

You’re wrong. Plus, those are only TWO teams. Also, Wilt was OVERRATED in the playoffs. Check the facts. Jordan played in an era with 20+ very good & quite a few great teams. I’m no longer going back & forth with anybody. Bill was great & MJ was great, but I’m taking the fierce 6’6 guard who DOMINATED in an era when BIG MEN DOMINATED & PLAYERS WERE ALLOWED TO F#*K you up if you dared to drive to the basket! These are facts that are indisputable. I understand some of you are bias because he’s a Boston legend, but be pragmatic.

 

[patsfan13]

Fair point...BUT he was a SG going against dynastic teams/players. He also changed the game in that he became the first guard that DOMINATED the league in a time when it was damn near impossible to win a championship without a dominant big man WHILE HE HIMSELF did not have a dominant big man. EVER. He also played in the era with the most dominant big men in NBA history (minus Wilt/Russell). Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Kareem, Parrish, McHale, Duncan, Robinson, Mourning, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Walton, Garnett, Rodman, (end of career), Terry Cummings, Horace Grant, Otis Thorpe, Nance, C-Webb, Mutumbo, Sabonis, McAdoo, Gilmore, Ralph Sampson, Bill Laimbeer, Jack Sikma, Daughterty, Mark Eaton, Daryl Dawkins, Rick Smits, Dan Issel, Sam Perkins, Jermaine O’Neal etc etc etc..... he also made the game international.

Most importantly..
Michael Jordan played in a more competitive league. People forget that when Bill Russell, whom I greatly respect, was playing in the NBA, there were between 8–14 teams. The Boston Celtics got the lion's share of the talent and Russell played with more fellow hall of famers than any other player of his caliber at the time. Bill was a hell of a player though!!!
Arguably the best defender of all time along with Dennis Rodman.
But yeah, Jordan is the GOAT & it ain’t close.

Many of the HOF players got there BECAUSE of Russell. The talent was far more concentrated not diluted. Russell dominated from day 1, Jordan had to wait for the Celtic, Laker and Piston teams to age.