DRAFT Welcome Mac Jones

[zydecochris]

Nobody is brady. I still love the pocket passer. This guy has the same mobility as drew brees. They both ran the same time.

I think Jones is like a taller, perhaps a little less nimbly Brees. Both super smart, book smart and football smart. In college both played best on the biggest stages. Both were absolutely outstanding tennis players which I think led to their excellent footwork in the pocket. Not only was Jones an excellent tennis player, his Dad is a professional tennis player so their family is really a professional sports family.

 

[Deus Irae]

A lot of the knock on Jones is that he's some sort of stiff whose "only" skill is passing the ball to a teammate Apparently, unless you can run around in the backfield like a startled coyote for 10 seconds while a WR gets open *eventually*, then you're just no good in the "new" NFL. QBs now seemingly shouldn't worry too much about the playbook. as long as he can handle "unscheduled" plays i.e. blown plays, then he'll do just fine.

The NFL has adapted to the various college schemes by dumbing down the QB position. So the increase in demand for athleticism is not surprising. They can get away with this because of all the rules protecting the QB even outside the pocket.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The NFL has adapted to the various college schemes by dumbing down the QB position. So the increase in demand for athleticism is not surprising. They can get away with this because of all the rules protecting the QB even outside the pocket.

I don't think the forced engineering will work. Problem is it will never be like point guards in the NBA who went away from pass-first towards score-first players in a generation. A QB still has to process, on every single play, what the defense is doing, know what every teammates' route is, know where to go immediately post snap or secondary reads. Arguably 8 of the last 10 Superbowl winning QBs were pocket QBs, some of whom can run a little but again nothing crazy in terms of total running yardage. I love that Mac can slide and has that pro-tennis background like Brees had, that's all a pocket QB needs is the instinctive slide up or slide left/right.

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[zydecochris]

The NFL has adapted to the various college schemes by dumbing down the QB position. So the increase in demand for athleticism is not surprising. They can get away with this because of all the rules protecting the QB even outside the pocket.

Good point. In my mind the shift has not been so much from pocket to running QBs (as you have pointed out, pocket QBs are still the most successful), but from scripted to improvisational QB play. A number of colleges have had tremendous success with "Make Something Out of Nothing" (let's call it MSON) QBs that are good at improvising, often by running around and throwing it down the field (like Johnny Manziel, who terrorized college defenses). This year Wilson, Lance, and Fields fall into this category and they were greatly valued for their athleticism and MSON factor. Fields in particular is a MSON QB, athletic and smart but he never gives up on a play and many of his biggest plays (and mistakes) are from broken plays. Now, more and more pro teams have the same type of spontaneous offense and athletic QB (Watson, Jackson, Mayfield, Murray, young Roethlisberger and to an extent Mahomes). These more athletic players flourish in more unscripted unpredictable "run around and throw it up and hope someone comes down with it" offenses where often the biggest gains are from broken plays. However, with that unpredictability also comes more mistakes and turnovers.

The absolute epitome of the other type of scripted, planned offense designed to minimized mistakes is the Brady Patriots. Everything is planned by excellent coaches and carried out by a football genius, Tom Brady. I would call it the "Take What the Defense Gives You" (TWDGY) offense. The Game Plan is everything and every aspect is carefully scripted, and that plan can change from week to week. The entire team is sculpted by acquiring unusually bright players that can adapt to a modified game plan week to week. One could argue that in the last Super Bowl this style won out with Brady at the helm of Tampa Bay against the more creative and spontaneous Mahomes.

Mac Jones is obviously the second type of QB, focused on minimizing mistakes and taking what the defense gives you. Just like BB Saban is fanatical about minimizing turnovers and all you have to do is look at Mac Jones stat line to realize that he simply did not throw the football up for grabs: 44 touchdowns to 4 interceptions. I think he is the perfect match for the Patriot offense.

Even if Fields ends up as a MVP in a few years (which is not inconceivable) I will remain convinced that he would have been the wrong choice for the Patriots, Jones simply fits their style better as long as they have their current coaches in place.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

From what I've seen of Jones, he's terrific at shorter throws, and also great at deep throws where he can get air under it, but not so good at out patterns where a line drive is needed. Also for the same reason, not great throwing a 30 yard rope on the run.

His intangibles are off the chart, and his mobility is better than Brady's. People say his footwork is good, but I think that could be where he improves the most. Brady's footwork always made him seem like the best player on the field, especially in contrast to Bledsoe who had horrible footwork. Also as someone else posted, Brady was able to improve his throwing power by adding some weight/strength to his lower body.

He would benefit by having a year on the bench to improve his game and body, like Brady-Mahomes-Rodgers all had. I'm secretly hoping that Cam can turn back the clock and be a force this year.

 

[rogerthat]

Disagree that he has a weak or poor throwing arm. But if people want to lump him into that category. People always said Brady, Brees and Peyton Manning didn’t have strong arms. Three 1st ballot Hall Of Famers.

I’d say Jones has a strong arm, it’s just not a rocket like some of the guys in his draft class. I’ve seen some of his deep passes going 50+ yards in the air, and be on the money. Call me crazy, but I like accuracy, intelligence and quick releases. His arm is very good, just not elite, not a rocket.

Brees def made it work with a below average throwing arm. No argument there. Philip Rivers did, too, and Matt Ryan, and Joe Montana towards the end, and I'm sure I'm missing a lot of others. But Brady does not and never did have a below average throwing arm. I have no idea where that rumor came from, but it's simply not true. He has always had a good arm, although not elite like a Rogers or a Favre. As far as Manning, I'd say when he was younger his arm was average. When he got older he lost it.

Look, I'm happy to be wrong. Maybe it's mechanics, maybe it's simply that his WR were so good in college that he knew if he just got it close it would probably be a completion and didn't want to overthrow them, maybe I'm simply seeing it wrong. But even if he does have a weak arm, he's clearly not Manning at the end because he manages to get zip on the underneath stuff in tight windows. And like you said, other guys have done it and gone to the HOF.

It's like anything- some guys can do it, or learn how to do it, and some can't or don't. Would I prefer him to throw like Trevor Lawrence? In a perfect world, sure. But there is no guarantee that Lawrence makes it, either. It will probably take 3-4 years before we know who this kid really is.

 

[scott99]

He's a straight dropback passer who stands tall in the pocket, doesn't show nervous feet, and does a nice job working through his progressions. He's not going to try to force the action, rarely trying to perform beyond his capability. He threw a TD pass in all 16 games he started against Big Ten opposition, while tossing 15 straight completions during the second half of action this past season against Michigan State. He's accurate, throws a very catchable ball, and also knows when to take a little off the pass.

This past season, Brady completed over 60% of his passes in eight games. The only time he was really off the mark was against Penn State, when he completed just 17 of 36 passes, tossing two TD strikes compared to three interceptions. At the pro level, his lack of mobility could surface as a problem, and it will be interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.

He's a straight dropback passer who stands tall in the pocket, doesn't show nervous feet, and does a nice job working through his progressions. He's not going to try to force the action, rarely trying to perform beyond his capability. He threw a TD pass in all 16 games he started against Big Ten opposition, while tossing 15 straight completions during the second half of action this past season against Michigan State. He's accurate, throws a very catchable ball, and also knows when to take a little off the pass.

This past season, Brady completed over 60% of his passes in eight games. The only time he was really off the mark was against Penn State, when he completed just 17 of 36 passes, tossing two TD strikes compared to three interceptions. At the pro level, his lack of mobility could surface as a problem, and it will be interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” Mel Kiper

Read that last sentence. “Interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” The translation is not a strong arm.

“He had that great bowl game but I think he’s just very common,” a scout of NFC team said, according to McGinn. “He’s a bony, very thin kind of guy. God, you can see his ribs on his build. His arm is just adequate.”

Another NFC scout was more blunt.

“I don’t like him,” said the scout. “Smart guy. That’s it.”

“Very accurate, good toughness, good leadership,” was what then-Chicago Bears directors of college scouting Bill Rees wrote. “Has a chance to be a good player in the league in time. I think he’d be a real solid backup initially and end up growing into a starter.”

 

[rogerthat]

He's a straight dropback passer who stands tall in the pocket, doesn't show nervous feet, and does a nice job working through his progressions. He's not going to try to force the action, rarely trying to perform beyond his capability. He threw a TD pass in all 16 games he started against Big Ten opposition, while tossing 15 straight completions during the second half of action this past season against Michigan State. He's accurate, throws a very catchable ball, and also knows when to take a little off the pass.

This past season, Brady completed over 60% of his passes in eight games. The only time he was really off the mark was against Penn State, when he completed just 17 of 36 passes, tossing two TD strikes compared to three interceptions. At the pro level, his lack of mobility could surface as a problem, and it will be interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” Mel Kiper

Read that last sentence. “Interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” The translation is not a strong arm.

“He had that great bowl game but I think he’s just very common,” a scout of NFC team said, according to McGinn. “He’s a bony, very thin kind of guy. God, you can see his ribs on his build. His arm is just adequate.”

Another NFC scout was more blunt.

“I don’t like him,” said the scout. “Smart guy. That’s it.”

“Very accurate, good toughness, good leadership,” was what then-Chicago Bears directors of college scouting Bill Rees wrote. “Has a chance to be a good player in the league in time. I think he’d be a real solid backup initially and end up growing into a starter.”

Thanks for the info. Kind of gives me hope. Let me put it this way- once he became the starter of the Patriots in his second year, it was very clear to me that he had an above average throwing arm. In fact I specifically remember Joe Theisman commenting that he threw with more zip than Bledsoe- and btw, I agreed.

Remember that throw on the final drive of SP to Troy Brown? Laser.

 

[Deus Irae]

He's a straight dropback passer who stands tall in the pocket, doesn't show nervous feet, and does a nice job working through his progressions. He's not going to try to force the action, rarely trying to perform beyond his capability. He threw a TD pass in all 16 games he started against Big Ten opposition, while tossing 15 straight completions during the second half of action this past season against Michigan State. He's accurate, throws a very catchable ball, and also knows when to take a little off the pass.

This past season, Brady completed over 60% of his passes in eight games. The only time he was really off the mark was against Penn State, when he completed just 17 of 36 passes, tossing two TD strikes compared to three interceptions. At the pro level, his lack of mobility could surface as a problem, and it will be interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” Mel Kiper

Read that last sentence. “Interesting to see how he fares when forced to take more chances down the field.” The translation is not a strong arm.

“He had that great bowl game but I think he’s just very common,” a scout of NFC team said, according to McGinn. “He’s a bony, very thin kind of guy. God, you can see his ribs on his build. His arm is just adequate.”

Another NFC scout was more blunt.

“I don’t like him,” said the scout. “Smart guy. That’s it.”

“Very accurate, good toughness, good leadership,” was what then-Chicago Bears directors of college scouting Bill Rees wrote. “Has a chance to be a good player in the league in time. I think he’d be a real solid backup initially and end up growing into a starter.”

Given his physical condition, and the transition he'll be making to football as a full time job, Jones will have the ability to improve his functional throwing strength. He can improve it both with physical development and improved throwing technique.

As with Trask, any arm strength problem is going to be more about mid-deep outs than about straight bombs.

 

[Brewskies]

In order for some QBs to succeed you need to put some talent around them. Look at Mahomes.

I agree with your point but your point has nothing to do with my question.

 

[yopats]

Full Chris Simms segment on Mac Jones.. WEW.

 

[Betterthanmost]

How is this not Mac Jones? I know this has been posted adnauseam but do read the QB section again.

 

[Uptown]

 

[slash83]

Anyone order his jersey yet?

 

[Uptown]

Full Chris Simms segment on Mac Jones.. WEW.

Simms is off his rocker at times, but he’s been money regarding recent rookie QB rankings.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Anyone order his jersey yet

Simms is off his rocker at times, but he’s been money regarding recent rookie QB rankings.

He knows QBs, only problem is that he made his hate for Brady cloud his judgement and made him look inept.

 

[long distance]

Interesting bit from Reiss yesterday about his personal coach ****inson who will be in unusual situation as current quarterback consultant for the Bills. Their relationship seems to be continuing regardless as they went to work the day after Macs Foxboro presentation and return to Alabama..


"He studied Tom Brady the most. Then Drew [Brees], because Mac knows his own capabilities. Drew might not have the biggest gun in the fight, so he has to have fast eyes. While Mac has a lot stronger arm than people think he does, and he's more athletic than people think he is, he's a huge student of the game and he has the fastest eyes."

Whom does Patriots top pick Mac Jones study most? Starts with Tom Brady

New England's No. 15 pick, who tries to "learn from the best," idolized the quarterback and displays a similar work ethic and passion for the game.

www.espn.com

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Mac Jones playing Madden NE VS Bucs... preview of future super bowl

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[Mack Herron]

Worth taking 10 minutes if you haven’t seen this:

 

[Uptown]