The Peyton Manning Hatorade Thread.(mega merged)

[PatsDeb]

I'd actually prefer Manning to Marino for one game. I was around when Marino played. Believe it or not, he WHINED way more than Peyton ever does, and that's saying something.

 

[Kontradiction]

Can we unban the Broncos trolls now?

 

[upstater1]

Peter King this morning stunned me with his worship of Manning. As much as these guys kneel at Manning's altar, I never thought it could go this far:

Manning goes down in flames (with an asterisk).

The asterisk, of course, is that Denver safety Rahim Moore made one of the all-time dumb plays in a playoff game. His job, as one of the three deep safeties on the field with 40 seconds left and a seven-point lead and the Ravens 70 yards from the end zone, was to make sure he didn't let anyone get behind him. And Moore did. He was either lazy or had a lapse in concentration, and Jacoby Jones beat cornerback Tony Carter and Moore for the 70-yard touchdown that led to a six-quarter game, the fourth-longest in NFL history.

And while we're at it, Denver coaches, you've got 3rd-and-7 at your 47 at the two-minute warning. Baltimore's out of timeouts. You've got one of the greatest third-down-conversion quarterbacks ever, with two tight ends he trusts implicitly. And you run your third tailback into the middle of the line? Seriously? Then, with 31 seconds and two timeouts left at your 20, the game now tied, Manning kneels? Double seriously? I'm serious: Either Peyton Manning was injured and the Broncos told no one, or that's Coaching Negligence 101.

"That was an audible,'' Manning said of the 3rd-and-7 Hillman run. "Don't put that on [offensive coordinator] Mike McCoy.'' Okay. I still don't like it. Hillman ran it 22 times Saturday. Four times he gained seven yards or more. I want the ball in Manning's hands there.

Read More: Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning; Colin Kaepernick; Trindon Holliday; more NFL playoffs divisional round thoughts - NFL - Peter King - SI.com

This leaves me without words. Manning's balls shriveled on that 3rd and 7.

 

[upstater1]

I'd actually prefer Manning to Marino for one game. I was around when Marino played. Believe it or not, he WHINED way more than Peyton ever does, and that's saying something.

He did whine more.

He was also a better QB!

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Got beat posting PK's awful quote.

 

[Kontradiction]

Peter King this morning stunned me with his worship of Manning. As much as these guys kneel at Manning's altar, I never thought it could go this far:



Read More: Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning; Colin Kaepernick; Trindon Holliday; more NFL playoffs divisional round thoughts - NFL - Peter King - SI.com

This leaves me without words. Manning's balls shriveled on that 3rd and 7.

A bad play by Moore still doesn't chage the fact that Manning had the ball in his hands for a potential drive to win the game and still choked. Many have said all season that the Broncos are overrated on both sides of the ball. That game showed it. The Broncos were getting hit deep all throughout the game.

 

[PeerlessKid]

The best thing about all of this that when we take a step back, none of this matters to Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. At the end of the day the circus surrounding all of this never reaches their ears or nor do they care when it does. They go about their business with class and dignity and are always humble about what they're doing but fiercely hungry internally to do more and I love that.

A true legend and a great of this game just does his thing and earns it by playing. We see this game by game, season by season, records are falling left, right and centre. When all is said and done they won't need to trumpet their own horn, their place in history is cemented without saying a word.

So whilst I do enjoy these debates, what I love more is watching Tom Brady and the New England Patriots in this golden era and I am enjoying every second of it.

 

[Deus Irae]

Peter King this morning stunned me with his worship of Manning. As much as these guys kneel at Manning's altar, I never thought it could go this far...

Manning could have a 5 INT, 3 fumble performance and lose 7-3. But, if those 7 points came on a bad play by someone else late in the 4th quarter, the day after headlines would be:

"Manning plays well enough to win, but defense blows lead"

 

[Uncle Rico]

Add Barnwell to the excuse makers.

Bill Barnwell on the weekend's divisional games - Grantland

Seems Manning was several "ifs" from having a good game.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Peter King this morning stunned me with his worship of Manning. As much as these guys kneel at Manning's altar, I never thought it could go this far:



Read More: Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning; Colin Kaepernick; Trindon Holliday; more NFL playoffs divisional round thoughts - NFL - Peter King - SI.com

This leaves me without words. Manning's balls shriveled on that 3rd and 7.

The fact that PK has a quote stating it was an audible and is still blaming the coaches is even more dumbfounding...

 

[Deus Irae]

Add Barnwell to the excuse makers.

Bill Barnwell on the weekend's divisional games - Grantland

Seems Manning was several "ifs" from having a good game.

This part... this crap....

The same is true for Manning, who took a fair amount of flak for not winning with a below-average defense and a running game that seemed to disappear in big playoff games in Indianapolis. People actually convinced themselves in 2010 that Mark Sanchez was better than Peyton Manning in the playoffs because Sanchez's defense managed to hold an ailing Manning to 16 points, which meant that Sanchez's 189 yards and one interception were enough to hold on for a 17-16 win. It seems so silly now; were we ever so young? Perhaps a better question: Will we ever grow up?

tells you all you need to know about Barnwell, in terms of his Manning-love.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Peter King this morning stunned me with his worship of Manning. As much as these guys kneel at Manning's altar, I never thought it could go this far:



Read More: Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning; Colin Kaepernick; Trindon Holliday; more NFL playoffs divisional round thoughts - NFL - Peter King - SI.com

This leaves me without words. Manning's balls shriveled on that 3rd and 7.

Manning explicitly says not to blame the coaches because he made the call at the line. King blames the coaches anyway. Classic. He's on Peyton's nuts so hard that anyone who acknowledges that he isn't perfect must be wrong. Even Peyton.

 

[Frezo]

Can we unban the Broncos trolls now?

Might as well. The weather is pretty fair today. They just might show up.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I really wish we could put this thread to rest now, let's get ready for baltimore and what should be the toughest game of the year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This part... this crap....



tells you all you need to know about Barnwell, in terms of his Manning-love.

I've been insisting that Barnwell sucks and shouldn't be taken seriously for months; hopefully this article will convince others of the same. He did some good work at Football Outsiders, and he knows his numbers, but he just doesn't really understand football. No amount of number-crunching will fix that, and it especially sucks because analysis like his undermines the very idea that statistical analysis can be applied to football in a way that illuminates where conventional wisdom is wrong.

Once you know what to look for, the logical fallacies in every article that Barnwell writes are hard to miss. The worst is that he starts with his endpoint in mind, and then cherrypicks advanced metrics to support his position. Sometimes he even acknowledges where he's being inconsistent in his own reasoning, and claims that he's still right, pretty much just because.

When it suits his case, Bill will often write about how an individual play can create a pretty dramatic swing in win probability. It's a great, quantifiable way to drive home the importance of that play, and it really bangs home that old adage that most games come down to a few plays. Unfortunately, he didn't do that here, which is a shame, because I would *love* to see how Manning's pick-six and overtime interception fared in that regard.

Also, if there's one thing that Football Outsiders is *very* clear on, it's that turnovers are absolutely huge. I fully expect the general sports media to gloss over them (unless Tony Romo is committing them), because people who lack an understanding of football frequently make that mistake. But FO couldn't be clearer on that point--it's why Brady tops the DVOA rankings pretty much every year. Yet somehow, Bill Barnwell *still* hasn't got the memo. Except that he sort of has, and he's written in the past about how damaging turnover-prone players are to their teams. I guess he just didn't get the memo that turnovers also matter when Peyton Manning commits them.

 

[BSR]

I really wish we could put this thread to rest now, let's get ready for baltimore and what should be the toughest game of the year.

How do we "get ready"?

 

[VJCPatriot]

I don't buy his 'asterisk' excuse for the loss. But in his own article King admits the following stark facts:

"He had plenty of help, but the fact is, Manning's a 9-11 playoff quarterback with one Super Bowl victory who turns 37 in March, and he knows there aren't going to be many more chances. It's going to be a painful offseason for him."

Read More: Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning; Colin Kaepernick; Trindon Holliday; more NFL playoffs divisional round thoughts - NFL - Peter King - SI.com

In football, all people will remember are the results. Peyton has to wait another year to see if he can try to improve his legacy. His reputation as a playoff choker got reinforced this year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I really wish we could put this thread to rest now, let's get ready for baltimore and what should be the toughest game of the year.

Thread Ignore feature. Try it!
What's best is that it allows those interested in a thread to continue without annoying those disinterested.

Me, I love this thread.

I don't need to get ready for the tough Baltimore game since I am not playing or coaching.

 

[RodThePat]

This part... this crap....



tells you all you need to know about Barnwell, in terms of his Manning-love.

The definition of a strawman argument. Nobody in their right minds argued Mark Sanchez was a better postseason QB than Manning after that game. Way to disprove a point that was never even made to begin with, Barnwell.

 

[Kontradiction]

How do we "get ready"?

Well, me personally, I've been running non-stop gassers and my father and I have been running the Oklahoma drill against each other. I'm not quite ready yet, but it's a long week and a big game.