The 2017 NFL Draft, Day One Game-Day Thread

[Wheelman]

If trent dilfore could win a super bowl cousins can too. Just sayin.

Yeah, well you can thank Bill "I don't want the DB to touch the WR at all" Polian for that. Now you need a QB to win. Cousins can't pull a Dilfer.

 

[patfanken]

Garopollo is unproven and if the asking price is ridiculous why would you trade for him?
I know Patriot fans have rose colored glasses but they also thought Ryan mallet was being traded for the clowney pick.

Com'n Andy they are all unknowns until they are around 5 years into their careers. But the thing is we saw 3 teams trade up using their first round picks plus 2 or 3 more to take QB's from the worst draft class in the last decade.

Whatever risk JG is to become a "fanchiseQB" it is INFINITELY less than the risk that any of this kids will have. I don't think you have to be wearing Patriot purple glasses to know that JG looked more than just adequate in his 2 games. But he not only has those 3 games and all the preseason games and 3 full years of practices (around 330) where he is taped and graded. Yet the Bears took a kid who has never taken a snap under C in college. No risk there. There was a reason Pace didn't tell Foxx he was going to make this move.

Was the asking prce for Watson ridiculous, or McMahomes Each team gave up a high first round pick PLUS 2 or 3 extras. Every one of those teams should have been offering the Pats some kind of similar product for a much better game ready player

 

[Ring 6]

Com'n Andy they are all unknowns until they are around 5 years into their careers. But the thing is we saw 3 teams trade up using their first round picks plus 2 or 3 more to take QB's from the worst draft class in the last decade.

Whatever risk JG is to become a "fanchiseQB" it is INFINITELY less than the risk that any of this kids will have. I don't think you have to be wearing Patriot purple glasses to know that JG looked more than just adequate in his 2 games. But he not only has those 3 games and all the preseason games and 3 full years of practices (around 330) where he is taped and graded. Yet the Bears took a kid who has never taken a snap under C in college. No risk there. There was a reason Pace didn't tell Foxx he was going to make this move.

Was the asking prce for Watson ridiculous, or McMahomes Each team gave up a high first round pick PLUS 2 or 3 extras. Every one of those teams should have been offering the Pats some kind of similar product for a much better game ready player

Look you can blow 6 quarters out of proportion all you want. You can pretend sitting stagnant on the bench for 3 years is a positive because he played in preseason games (something never argued as a positive for a QB before btw) and you can put your blinders on and think everyone is just so stupid to not see that obviously Jimmy is going to be the bestest ever but that doesn't cut it with me.

Garopollo lasted until almost the 3rd round for reasons. Those reasons were not overcome in the preseason games, the ones that had many patriot fans predicting an 0-4 start.
Those concerns were given the start of an answer with a decent game against a mediocre team and the a really good half against a terrible defense but they were far from answered fully. Then he got injured and couldn't play.

I know he is jimmy and the love is deep but if you take a step back and look from the standpoint of an organization and compare:

1) a guy people mostly had a 3rd round grade on who had sat for the majority of 3 years, learning someone else's system, a system that has not developed one solid starter and a slew of ultimately overrated backups, who played so so in his preseason games for 3 years then played a decent game and a really good half and now could be traded for but at the price of a proven starter vs
2) a guy we have a top of round 1 grade on, who will learn our system from day 1, and can be given time to develop and will be cost effective for 5 years

If you take away the emotion of hoping the patriots can trade Jimmy for a kings ransom this is nowhere near the no brainer you want to think it is which is probably exactly why it hasn't happened.

 

[Ring 6]

Was the asking prce for Watson ridiculous, or McMahomes Each team gave up a high first round pick PLUS 2 or 3 extras. Every one of those teams should have been offering the Pats some kind of similar product for a much better game ready player

These teams very likely believe that the players the took are better QB prospects than Jimmy g.

They didn't draft him or trade up for him 3 years ago. One ok game and a very good half doesn't do a complete overhaul of your view of a player. Especially when he does that wuth the best team in the NFL surrounding him.

You seem to think that being older because you barely played football for 3 years is some type of positive.

 

[maineman209]

These teams very likely believe that the players the took are better QB prospects than Jimmy g.

They didn't draft him or trade up for him 3 years ago. One ok game and a very good half doesn't do a complete overhaul of your view of a player. Especially when he does that wuth the best team in the NFL surrounding him.

You seem to think that being older because you barely played football for 3 years is some type of positive.

I've paid really detailed attention to Brady's young backups over the years - their footwork, delivery mechanics, accuracy and alacrity reading the defense, pocket presence, command presence, etc.

From Hoyer's first rookie pre-season game appearance, I thought he could have a career as an adequate NFL starter/higher-than-average-quality backup. I thought the same with Cassell.

Mallett started out way behind Hoyer and Cassell in every area and never improved significantly in any of them.

I saw JG live in practice as a rookie, including against the Eagles in a joint session. Even at that point, he was already miles ahead of both Hoyer and Cassell. For me, his performance in live NFL action at the beginning of 2016 wasn't a "one-off" or anomaly. It was what I expected from him.

I also expect that, if Brady experiences another 2008, JG provides a much better chance of taking a Superbowl-caliber roster to the big dance than any young backup Brady has ever had, a much better chance than Brissett plus any quantity of high draft picks, and a much better chance than about 50% of current NFL starting QBs.

BTW - None of us on this board (or in the media) have any direct, factual evidence of what the Pats may have been "asking" in trade for JG (or if they were asking anything at all) nor what may or may not have been offered. So, we don't really know what his value may or may not be to QB-needy teams around the league or how they view his capabilities.

Sure, all of this is just my humble opinion.

But I'm extremely confident that I'm not viewing JG through rose-colored glasses. On the contrary, you seem to be viewing JG through some very darkly-tinted windows.

 

[1960Pats]

Yeah, well you can thank Bill "I don't want the DB to touch the WR at all" Polian for that. Now you need a QB to win. Cousins can't pull a Dilfer.

Dilfer won in 2000 with a Ravens defense that was under the same rules that the Pats used to kick off their dynasty.

The Polianic rules of the NYFL came a little later, after the Pats had destroyed Indy and some other teams who were represented on the committee at that time. I seem to remember Tedy woofing about the rule changes after the win in 2004.

The greatest part of all is that the Pats have been the team that's been taking advantage of the rule changes the most.

 

[Ring 6]

I've paid really detailed attention to Brady's young backups over the years - their footwork, delivery mechanics, accuracy and alacrity reading the defense, pocket presence, command presence, etc.

From Hoyer's first rookie pre-season game appearance, I thought he could have a career as an adequate NFL starter/higher-than-average-quality backup. I thought the same with Cassell.

Mallett started out way behind Hoyer and Cassell in every area and never improved significantly in any of them.

I saw JG live in practice as a rookie, including against the Eagles in a joint session. Even at that point, he was already miles ahead of both Hoyer and Cassell. For me, his performance in live NFL action at the beginning of 2016 wasn't a "one-off" or anomaly. It was what I expected from him.

I also expect that, if Brady experiences another 2008, JG provides a much better chance of taking a Superbowl-caliber roster to the big dance than any young backup Brady has ever had, a much better chance than Brissett plus any quantity of high draft picks, and a much better chance than about 50% of current NFL starting QBs.

BTW - None of us on this board (or in the media) have any direct, factual evidence of what the Pats may have been "asking" in trade for JG (or if they were asking anything at all) nor what may or may not have been offered. So, we don't really know what his value may or may not be to QB-needy teams around the league or how they view his capabilities.

Sure, all of this is just my humble opinion.

But I'm extremely confident that I'm not viewing JG through rose-colored glasses. On the contrary, you seem to be viewing JG through some very darkly-tinted windows.

That is all fine. Of course everyone had a right to their own opinions on every player. You may well be right.

What I have an issue with is people who act like their opinion is the only possibility and any NFL team that views the player or players diffferently has to be wrong and stupid.

Let's face it, every NFL team employs professionals who out 100s of times more work into evaluating players and have enormously more experience and skill in evaluating players than a fan.

Perhaps garopollo will be a superstar but the reality is that we, from our vantage point just simply so not have enough information to make that judgment with certainty not to mention the experience or skill to do so.

It's wonderful to have an opinion but silly to imply that it is a professional one and more qualified than those who have experience and are paid to make those analyses.

Predicting the future is a funny thing though. You can guess and be right for all the wrong reasons sometimes but in the long run the people with more data and better skill at understanding it arecrufht much more often.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Check out @MySportsUpdate's Tweet:

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'm a Jimmy fan. Think he and Carr are very similar. Both are mobile, very good arms with nice touch. Can scan the field, look off. Smart, confident guys.

Not really sure how to put this but on the lower end of franchise QB's. Some very nice traits and skill set but you must go all in on them. What Oak, Tenn, TB are doing. Serious investments.

If you're trading for Jimmy you don't care the price bc "he's your guy". Some weren't sold on Winston and M.M. ?

I can see both sides.

Jimmy had an absolute force in Bill behind him. Who prepared like a maniac if Jimmy had to start. Had a great team around him and just a great overall situation.

Who knows what the asking price was?

I think Bill wanted a fortune bc of Brady and I don't blame him.

(Knock on every piece of wood you can) If Brady goes down we still have a great chance to win the SB.

No other team can say that and that might be too much to part with for Bill?

 

[jah]

Garopollo is unproven and if the asking price is ridiculous why would you trade for him?
I know Patriot fans have rose colored glasses but they also thought Ryan mallet was being traded for the clowney pick.

Did anyone ever really say we would get #1 overall for Mallett? I remember lots of speculation about #33, but not #1.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

There were folks here "guaranteeing" we'd get TWO #1s for Cassel

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[Ring 6]

Did anyone ever really say we would get #1 overall for Mallett? I remember lots of speculation about #33, but not #1.

Yes people were saying we could get the clowney pick.

 

[maineman209]

That is all fine. Of course everyone had a right to their own opinions on every player. You may well be right.

What I have an issue with is people who act like their opinion is the only possibility and any NFL team that views the player or players diffferently has to be wrong and stupid.

Let's face it, every NFL team employs professionals who out 100s of times more work into evaluating players and have enormously more experience and skill in evaluating players than a fan.

Perhaps garopollo will be a superstar but the reality is that we, from our vantage point just simply so not have enough information to make that judgment with certainty not to mention the experience or skill to do so.

It's wonderful to have an opinion but silly to imply that it is a professional one and more qualified than those who have experience and are paid to make those analyses.

Predicting the future is a funny thing though. You can guess and be right for all the wrong reasons sometimes but in the long run the people with more data and better skill at understanding it arecrufht much more often.

I agree that the professionals (at least on the Pats) have several orders of magnitude more information and understanding that I do as a fan on the outside looking in. In fact, I make that same argument frequently in the face of the "certainty" exhibited in numerous posts about various players.

But, then, I'm not claiming that JG "will be a superstar". I'm merely saying that, among the many young QBs I've watched backing up Brady, JG appears to have the best chance of being able to take a superbowl-caliber roster - in THIS organization - to the big dance. To me, that's worth far more than a boatload of high draft picks.

My guess is that Bob Kraft feels pretty much the same.

 

[maineman209]

Yes people were saying we could get the clowney pick.

Probably the same people who were shocked and horrified when the Pats gave up Cassell AND Vrabel for one measly 2nd-round pick.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I agree that the professionals (at least on the Pats) have several orders of magnitude more information and understanding that I do as a fan on the outside looking in. In fact, I make that same argument frequently in the face of the "certainty" exhibited in numerous posts about various players.

But, then, I'm not claiming that JG "will be a superstar". I'm merely saying that, among the many young QBs I've watched backing up Brady, JG appears to have the best chance of being able to take a superbowl-caliber roster - in THIS organization - to the big dance. To me, that's worth far more than a boatload of high draft picks.

My guess is that Bob Kraft feels pretty much the same.

Color me unimpressed. Genius Bobby Kraft gave a HUGE contract to "The Statue". Bledsoe was traded away the next year.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree that the professionals (at least on the Pats) have several orders of magnitude more information and understanding that I do as a fan on the outside looking in. In fact, I make that same argument frequently in the face of the "certainty" exhibited in numerous posts about various players.

But, then, I'm not claiming that JG "will be a superstar". I'm merely saying that, among the many young QBs I've watched backing up Brady, JG appears to have the best chance of being able to take a superbowl-caliber roster - in THIS organization - to the big dance. To me, that's worth far more than a boatload of high draft picks.

My guess is that Bob Kraft feels pretty much the same.

That's different than the people calling other teams stupid fur not doing whatever it takes to get jimmy g over any other possible QB. There are pluses, minuses, risks and uncertainties about all young QBs and many posters have spoken as if none of those exist for him and he is a proven star waiting to happen. That's what I disagree with.

 

[Jackson 2]

That's a striking statistic. But, it's a little less striking when considering the following: if each team has 2 undrafted free agents make the final roster that's 64 of them compared to 1 overall #1 pick. Over 10 years, that's 640 UFAs vs. 10 overall #1s.

 

[maineman209]

Color me unimpressed. Genius Bobby Kraft gave a HUGE contract to "The Statue". Bledsoe was traded away the next year.

I'm not sure that what Kraft did 18 years ago has any bearing on the current situation with JG. Unless you think that nothing has changed since then.

 

[maineman209]

That's different than the people calling other teams stupid fur not doing whatever it takes to get jimmy g over any other possible QB. There are pluses, minuses, risks and uncertainties about all young QBs and many posters have spoken as if none of those exist for him and he is a proven star waiting to happen. That's what I disagree with.

We're definitely on the same page there.