The 2013 Prospect Thread

[JackBauer]

Jack, I am not assuming anything. The Ravens starting wide receiving corp is Torrey Smith and Streeter with Pitta at tight end. They are going to deploy Rice into passing routes more. Secondly, Hightower is not as effective in the passing game as he is attacking the line of scrimmage. It would make a lot more sense to get a 3-down WLB who can cover guys like Ray Rice or any other running back that the Pats are going to face this year which will be utilized extensively in the passing game.

Their opponents and their running backs who will play a significant role in the passing game:

(1) Denver - Ronnie Hillman
(2) New Orleans - Darren Sproles
(3) Miami - Lamar Miller
(4) Tampa Bay - Doug Martin
(5) Jets - Goodson/McKnight
(6) Bills - Spiller
(7) Browns - Richardson (very underrated option in their passing game)
(8) Atlanta - Rodgers
(9) Texans - Foster
(10) Ravens - Rice


These 10 opponents in 2013 represent their primary pass-catching options and I think that you would be hard-pressed to think that you want Hightower/Wilson/Fletcher on those guys in the passing game.

Sigh. I give up. You can continue to think this is a dire need to stop the Goodson/McKnight juggernaut and the dude with 62 receiving yards in his career, but I'm more interesting in plugging our more pressing weaknesses, of which there are several.

Honestly I feel fine about everyone on that list, save the few like Martin who are matchup nightmares no matter who we trot out there on defense.

 

[manxman2601]

No thank you. There is no opening for a cover LB.

Bill Belichcick has been trying to create the "Big Nickle" for at least ten seasons. But he never found the guy he wanted. Now he does.

Adrian Wilson is the smart and cagy, hard hitting, tall safety he always wanted to match up and to cover the 6'5" TEs, who run rampant through the Patriot's secondary. AW might have lost a step as a secondary cover for wideouts, but he just the ticket to stop TEs down the seam, as the fastest and cagiest cover LB you ever saw...

That's the 34 yr old Adrian Wilson you'll be talking about? I like the signing, but lets not pretend he's the future for the ball club.

 

[Deus Irae]

No thank you. There is no opening for a cover LB.

Bill Belichcick has been trying to create the "Big Nickle" for at least ten seasons. But he never found the guy he wanted. Now he does.

Adrian Wilson is the smart and cagy, hard hitting, tall safety he always wanted to match up and to cover the 6'5" TEs, who run rampant through the Patriot's secondary. AW might have lost a step as a secondary cover for wideouts, but he just the ticket to stop TEs down the seam, as the fastest and cagiest cover LB you ever saw...

Adrian Wilson was getting subbed out on passing downs last season.


To repeat:


Adrian Wilson was getting subbed out on passing downs last season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jack, I am not assuming anything. The Ravens starting wide receiving corp is Torrey Smith and Streeter with Pitta at tight end. They are going to deploy Rice into passing routes more. Secondly, Hightower is not as effective in the passing game as he is attacking the line of scrimmage. It would make a lot more sense to get a 3-down WLB who can cover guys like Ray Rice or any other running back that the Pats are going to face this year which will be utilized extensively in the passing game.

Their opponents and their running backs who will play a significant role in the passing game:

(1) Denver - Ronnie Hillman
(2) New Orleans - Darren Sproles
(3) Miami - Lamar Miller
(4) Tampa Bay - Doug Martin
(5) Jets - Goodson/McKnight
(6) Bills - Spiller
(7) Browns - Richardson (very underrated option in their passing game)
(8) Atlanta - Rodgers
(9) Texans - Foster
(10) Ravens - Rice


These 10 opponents in 2013 represent their primary pass-catching options out of the backfield and I think that you would be hard-pressed to think that you want Hightower/Wilson/Fletcher on those guys in the passing game.

If the Patriots waste a high draft pick on a cover LB, Kraft needs to fire everyone, including his son. There are other needs that are simply more important. Cover LBs will be around all offseason, as they get cut from teams.

 

[DocHoliday]

Tom Brady currently has one legitimate WR to throw to.

And this is what you're worried about?

 

[manxman2601]

Tom Brady currently has one legitimate WR to throw to.

And this is what you're worried about?

Yes but he has three legitimate receivers to throw too so it's not like he's bereft of passing options.

I went and had a look at two opposing TE performances last year, namely Dustin Keller and Scott Chandler. Chandler's best two games last season? Against the Patriots. He had five TD's all year, three against the Pats. Dustin Keller's best game? Guess who. We gave up his third best game too. He had two TD's all year, both against us. And BTW, I didn't cherry pick these - they were the first two I looked at.

People dismissing the importance of a quality coverage LB with size and speed like Ogletree might want to reconsider when we're giving up best games to these less than spectacular TE's.

 

[Wilfork#75]

Yes but he has three legitimate receivers to throw too so it's not like he's bereft of passing options.

I went and had a look at two opposing TE performances last year, namely Dustin Keller and Scott Chandler. Chandler's best two games last season? Against the Patriots. He had five TD's all year, three against the Pats. Dustin Keller's best game? Guess who. We gave up his third best game too. He had two TD's all year, both against us. And BTW, I didn't cherry pick these - they were the first two I looked at.

People dismissing the importance of a quality coverage LB with size and speed like Ogletree might want to reconsider when we're giving up best games to these less than spectacular TE's.

I think we can all agree that this is an area we need to improve, the question is what is the value we place on it. Personally I think this is more of a sub package issue than an overall defensive issue. I was very happy with our base defense being able to stop the run and put opposition offenses into 3rd and long situations. Our trouble was we couldn't stop these obvious passing situations and get a stop when we needed it. To me this is purely a situational role so its not something I would be willing to spend a high pick on. I would much rather someone like Jelani Jenkins, Zavier Gooden, Gerald Hodges or Ty Powell in the 4th or 5th round.

My other question is why does it need to be a LBer to fill this role? How many LBers can actually cover the top TEs and RBs in the NFL? Why can't this be a role filled by bigger safeties who offer more speed and coverage ability? That is why I love the Adrian Wilson signing and why I am still a big fan of TJ McDonald. These guys that are 6'2-3" 215-230lbs that have the size and speed to match up with TE's and RBs. I really love the safety pairing of McDonald with McCourty where both guys have the ability to play the deep CF role, but McDonald has the size to match up with TE's and McCourty has the agility to match up with smaller slot WRs and shiftier RBs. You add Wilson in the hybrid S/LB role and I think your defense is much faster, versatile and has much better coverage ability all over the field.

 

[manxman2601]

I think we can all agree that this is an area we need to improve, the question is what is the value we place on it. Personally I think this is more of a sub package issue than an overall defensive issue. I was very happy with our base defense being able to stop the run and put opposition offenses into 3rd and long situations. Our trouble was we couldn't stop these obvious passing situations and get a stop when we needed it. To me this is purely a situational role so its not something I would be willing to spend a high pick on. I would much rather someone like Jelani Jenkins, Zavier Gooden, Gerald Hodges or Ty Powell in the 4th or 5th round.

My other question is why does it need to be a LBer to fill this role? How many LBers can actually cover the top TEs and RBs in the NFL? Why can't this be a role filled by bigger safeties who offer more speed and coverage ability? That is why I love the Adrian Wilson signing and why I am still a big fan of TJ McDonald. These guys that are 6'2-3" 215-230lbs that have the size and speed to match up with TE's and RBs. I really love the safety pairing of McDonald with McCourty where both guys have the ability to play the deep CF role, but McDonald has the size to match up with TE's and McCourty has the agility to match up with smaller slot WRs and shiftier RBs. You add Wilson in the hybrid S/LB role and I think your defense is much faster, versatile and has much better coverage ability all over the field.

Who's to say that Ogletree can't be part of the base too? Spikes will be out of contract at the end of the year. Simply move Mayo to Mike and have Ogletree as the Will. That way all three downs are covered rather than have a run stopping specialist like Spikes playing increasingly limited downs. In today's NFL, it isn't Ogle tree who'll be the sub package player, it will be Spikes with his limited athleticism. As for having a big Safety playing the role, well that's exactly what Ogletree was.

Also remember just how important LB's are on BBs defense. He cut his coaching teeth with one of the better LB corps in history and we currently have two first and one second rounder playing the position now. We also took a good look at Lavonte David last year and Ogle tree is one of the few first round grade prospects we've had contact with this year. Of course that doesn't mean it's a given, but it's far from preposterous to suggest it.

 

[belichick010405]

Wilfork - this is a lot more than a sub-package issue. If you want this defense to get better, you have to have a quality WLB that can apply pressure on the quarterback and at the edge while also being able to cover a teams' tight end and running back. I would take a good long look at those running backs that we are facing this year because by the end of the year, I am going to have a running total of those running backs and their contributions if Hightower and Spikes have coverage responsibility.

Adrian Wilson was removed from the field in passing situations and TJ McDonald was a disaster at USC this year. That is why he fell from a 2nd round prospect to a 5th/6th round prospect.

I would be disappointed if BB rolled into this season thinking that Wilson, Spikes/Hightower and TJ McDonald was the solution to their coverage woes against a running back and tight end.

I think we can all agree that this is an area we need to improve, the question is what is the value we place on it. Personally I think this is more of a sub package issue than an overall defensive issue. I was very happy with our base defense being able to stop the run and put opposition offenses into 3rd and long situations. Our trouble was we couldn't stop these obvious passing situations and get a stop when we needed it. To me this is purely a situational role so its not something I would be willing to spend a high pick on. I would much rather someone like Jelani Jenkins, Zavier Gooden, Gerald Hodges or Ty Powell in the 4th or 5th round.

My other question is why does it need to be a LBer to fill this role? How many LBers can actually cover the top TEs and RBs in the NFL? Why can't this be a role filled by bigger safeties who offer more speed and coverage ability? That is why I love the Adrian Wilson signing and why I am still a big fan of TJ McDonald. These guys that are 6'2-3" 215-230lbs that have the size and speed to match up with TE's and RBs. I really love the safety pairing of McDonald with McCourty where both guys have the ability to play the deep CF role, but McDonald has the size to match up with TE's and McCourty has the agility to match up with smaller slot WRs and shiftier RBs. You add Wilson in the hybrid S/LB role and I think your defense is much faster, versatile and has much better coverage ability all over the field.

 

[Yesares]

Another player that fits LB/S Hybrid mold is Devonte Holloman. I would love that BB select him whith either 2nd or 3rd round pick this year.

 

[mgteich]

Tell us how you really feel!

BTW, I strongly agree.

To draft a coverage linebacker in the first 3 rounds would be sad, given our needs at WR, CB, S, DT and DE. I'd even rather see a RB.

If the Patriots waste a high draft pick on a cover LB, Kraft needs to fire everyone, including his son. There are other needs that are simply more important. Cover LBs will be around all offseason, as they get cut from teams.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Robert Woods, WR, USC[/url]
Runs like a RB after the catch. Great precision routes and cuts very fast out of his breaks. Doesn't play like your conventional WR. Great to watch but is he a fit as an X-receiver?

I am not a college football guy and only watched the first highlight reel but this guy has some good tools. He plays sort of hunched over so he does utilize his full height but he can go up and the get the ball and fight for it. He also shows what appears to be good separation. In the open field he has nice acceleration and was able to walk away from the defensive backfield (although I was not sure who he was playing against). He is deceptive; he looks talk and gangly and like he could never separate but he does; odd but interesting prospect. Not a burner but decent speed.

 

[VrabelJr]

If we don't walk away with one of (ideally two) Woods, Wheaton or Hopkins I'm going to be a sad panda.

 

[VrabelJr]

Tell us how you really feel!

BTW, I strongly agree.

To draft a coverage linebacker in the first 3 rounds would be sad, given our needs at WR, CB, S, DT and DE. I'd even rather see a RB.

At the pre-draft event yesterday Tedy Bruschi said cover LB is one of our biggest needs. I'll listen to a guy like him.

 

[manxman2601]

Well Todd Mcshay certainly loves Ogletree:

pound for pound the best athlete in this draft

Draft Minute: Alec Ogletree - YouTube

 

[Sciz]

Well Todd Mcshay certainly loves Ogletree:



Draft Minute: Alec Ogletree - YouTube

Apparently McShay didn't see Lane Johnson's workout.

 

[manxman2601]

Apparently McShay didn't see Lane Johnson's workout.

I think he's referring to in-game athleticism if you watch the video for context.

 

[manxman2601]

Jonathan cooper was my first love affair in this draft class which made me want to highlight this tweet:

@DarrenPage15 There's nobody like him in the NFL. Cooper is the Randy Moss of Offensive Guards.

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/320938064530776066

I would take him before Warmack because of that athleticism (and his playing intelligence). I also think he'll be taken ahead of Warmack because he's more versatile; suits both a power game (elite puller) and a zone scheme. Warmack doesn't really have the athleticism for a zone scheme. Cooper also projects as a Centre which also adds to his versatility.

Edit:

And for those who haven't seen it, this play perfectly highlights his athleticism - blocking 50+ yards downfield with only a RB and WR's for company. He's #64 the LG.

http://youtu.be/ebWLjwQvngI?t=8s

 

[VrabelJr]

The more Markus Wheaton footage I watch the more I see a young, more athletic version of Deion Branch. This kid better be wearing a Patriots jersey in a few weeks.

I'm pretty happy with Robert Woods, too. I'd have a hard time choosing between these two guys. I might give Wheaton a slight advantage due to seeing him used all over the formation. Wheaton could work on his YAC and staying on his feet.

 

[manxman2601]

The more Markus Wheaton footage I watch the more I see a young, more athletic version of Deion Branch. This kid better be wearing a Patriots jersey in a few weeks.

I'm pretty happy with Robert Woods, too. I'd have a hard time choosing between these two guys. I might give Wheaton a slight advantage due to seeing him used all over the formation. Wheaton could work on his YAC and staying on his feet.

The latest game available of him is the Civil War game and it's Wheaton's worst by far - some pretty bad drops. But at the same time, he kills the Oregon DB's and his quickness can be electric. If he can sort his hands out (and we're only really talking one drop a game), Wheaton is close to the perfect Patriot WR (or a more athletic Deion Branch as you pointed out).