The 2013 Prospect Thread

[AzPatsFan]

No thank you. There is no opening for a cover LB.

Bill Belichcick has been trying to create the "Big Nickle" for at least ten seasons. But he never found the guy he wanted. Now he does.

Adrian Wilson is the smart and cagy, hard hitting, tall safety he always wanted to match up and to cover the 6'5" TEs, who run rampant through the Patriot's secondary. AW might have lost a step as a secondary cover for wideouts, but he just the ticket to stop TEs down the seam, as the fastest and cagiest cover LB you ever saw...

 

[Husse]

You are right, but from the information we know I wouldn't be comfortable taking him. The difference between Ogeltree and the guys we have drafted in the past, is that while Hernandez and Spikes may have made some bad decisions, they were never suspended. I don't really care what players do in their personal lives because they are adults and are entitled to make their own decisions. But when these decisions impact the football team I have an issue. Spikes and Hernandez never let down their teammates, their coaches or their fans while at Florida. Ogletree was not only suspended 4 games in 2012, he then got a DUI after the season. To me that kid just ain't too bright. What is he going to do when he has millions of dollars in his pockets. 3rd or 4th round I would take that kind of risk, but not in the 1st.

Now Spikes is probably a similar character, but his troubles came after he was already on the team. We didn't have to weigh up whether or not he was worthy of a 1st round pick. And we will see next year how the organisation really feels about him. To me there are just way too many questions around Ogletree to value him as a 1st rounder, and its not just character, its also need and value. I don't know I would even wan't him at 29 even if he was clean.

Maybe Spikes and Hernandez didn't get caught during their Florida days because Meyer covered it up?

Former players, though, contend it was the foundation of Florida’s culture under Meyer. In the season opener against Hawaii, Meyer said a few elite players (including wideout Percy Harvin, linebacker Brandon Spikes and tight end Aaron Hernandez) would miss the game with injuries. According to multiple sources, the three players—all critical factors in Florida’s rise under Meyer—failed drug tests for marijuana and were sitting out as part of standard university punishment.

From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football - NCAA Football - Sporting News

 

[Wilfork#75]

Maybe Spikes and Hernandez didn't get caught during their Florida days because Meyer covered it up?



From champs to chomped: How Urban Meyer broke Florida football - NCAA Football - Sporting News

I wouldn't doubt that at all and I'm pretty sure they both took advantage of that fact. The question is would they still make those choices if they knew they wouldn't get away with it. Like I said, I don't really care about the personal drug use, I only care if it impacts the team. Its not the positive drug test that bothers me, its the fact that he missed games and let his teammates down that bothers me. Now in the 3rd round I can take that risk, hell I am a big fan of Da'Rick Rogers who has just as many issues as Ogeltree, but in the first round its not worth it to me. The DUI is a different story with me and I have very strong opinions on that, but I don't think this is the place to get into that topic.

 

[Husse]

I wouldn't doubt that at all and I'm pretty sure they both took advantage of that fact. The question is would they still make those choices if they knew they wouldn't get away with it. Like I said, I don't really care about the personal drug use, I only care if it impacts the team. Its not the positive drug test that bothers me, its the fact that he missed games and let his teammates down that bothers me. Now in the 3rd round I can take that risk, hell I am a big fan of Da'Rick Rogers who has just as many issues as Ogeltree, but in the first round its not worth it to me. The DUI is a different story with me and I have very strong opinions on that, but I don't think this is the place to get into that topic.

Yeah, I agree that we shouldn't take him at 29. I don't think we need to take a player at that position in the first 3 rounds.

I don't really care about the drugs either, smoking pot gets way overexposed as a negative trait. And as far as AH and Spikes getting away with it, they didn't and got "injured" as the suspension, it just didn't get reported as a failed drug test. If they were aware that they could get away with it, I think that's equal or worse than getting suspended once.

 

[belichick010405]

There is an opening for a 3-down weakside linebacker that can cover Ray Rice however. I am looking forward to that guy being drafted this year because after last years' debacle against Baltimore, I really don't want to see this teams' defense exposed again.

And - for what it is worth, we don't even know if Adrian Wilson is going to start nevermind make this team.

No thank you. There is no opening for a cover LB.

Bill Belichcick has been trying to create the "Big Nickle" for at least ten seasons. But he never found the guy he wanted. Now he does.

Adrian Wilson is the smart and cagy, hard hitting, tall safety he always wanted to match up and to cover the 6'5" TEs, who run rampant through the Patriot's secondary. AW might have lost a step as a secondary cover for wideouts, but he just the ticket to stop TEs down the seam, as the fastest and cagiest cover LB you ever saw...

 

[belichick010405]

I know this about BB - this is all about value and that was apparent with Alfonzo Dennard and his selection in the 7th round last year. If he feels that an 3-down WLB that can cover the best of the best running backs who can catch the ball out of the backfield, like Ray Rice, is needed and after the Baltimore game, you can bet that he has relived that game in his mind more than once, then he will find a 3-down WLB that can cover Ray Rice and he will try to squeeze as much value in the process for the betterment of the team....

You are right, but from the information we know I wouldn't be comfortable taking him. The difference between Ogeltree and the guys we have drafted in the past, is that while Hernandez and Spikes may have made some bad decisions, they were never suspended. I don't really care what players do in their personal lives because they are adults and are entitled to make their own decisions. But when these decisions impact the football team I have an issue. Spikes and Hernandez never let down their teammates, their coaches or their fans while at Florida. Ogletree was not only suspended 4 games in 2012, he then got a DUI after the season. To me that kid just ain't too bright. What is he going to do when he has millions of dollars in his pockets. 3rd or 4th round I would take that kind of risk, but not in the 1st.

Now Spikes is probably a similar character, but his troubles came after he was already on the team. We didn't have to weigh up whether or not he was worthy of a 1st round pick. And we will see next year how the organisation really feels about him. To me there are just way too many questions around Ogletree to value him as a 1st rounder, and its not just character, its also need and value. I don't know I would even wan't him at 29 even if he was clean.

 

[JackBauer]

I know this about BB - this is all about value and that was apparent with Alfonzo Dennard and his selection in the 7th round last year. If he feels that an 3-down WLB that can cover the best of the best running backs who can catch the ball out of the backfield, like Ray Rice, is needed and after the Baltimore game, you can bet that he has relived that game in his mind more than once, then he will find a 3-down WLB that can cover Ray Rice and he will try to squeeze as much value in the process for the betterment of the team....

I am honestly confused as to why you're making such a big fuss about Ray Rice.

AFCCG:

19 rushes, 48 yards, 2.5 YPC
3 rec, 22 yards

Hardly seems like the type of threat we should be overly concerned with.

 

[belichick010405]

Because next year, the Ravens running back corp is only going to get better with both Rice and Pierce in the backfield at the same time. Pierce is going to allow Rice to roam into passing patterns that much more.

I am honestly confused as to why you're making such a big fuss about Ray Rice.

AFCCG:

19 rushes, 48 yards, 2.5 YPC
3 rec, 22 yards

Hardly seems like the type of threat we should be overly concerned with.

 

[VrabelJr]

Who are the best cover LBs coming out this year? It doesn't seem as strong of a crop compared to last years Lavonte David and Zach Brown. I could be wrong though.

 

[belichick010405]

It all depends on whether or not you want a 3-down WLB that can play against the run while also depending against the pass or if you want a specialist. The way I see it, the Pats need a 4th linebacker that can start while still maintaining their use of the 4-3 formation.

Arthur Brown, Alec Ogletree, Sio Moore are the first three guys that are a lot like Lavonte David and Bobby Wagner who fills this same role but at middle linebacker. The Pats need this kind of linebacker badly. Outside of Mayo, who is adequate at best on covering running backs or tight end passing options, they don't have a versatile 3-down linebacker who can support their run defense and protect in the passing game against playoff-caliber teams.

Brown, Ogletree or Moore would fill that need quite well with preference to Brown because of his pedigree and background. Team Captain - Played MLB at KSU - Clean Cut Kid who is a team Player - All-American/All-Conference.

Brown has the intangibles that the Pats like.

Who are the best cover LBs coming out this year? It doesn't seem as strong of a crop compared to last years Lavonte David and Zach Brown. I could be wrong though.

 

[belichick010405]

The next group of 3 that could be seen as value for the WLB slot is Khaseem Greene (Rutgers), Zaviar Gooden (Missouri) and DeVonte Holloman (South Carolina).

 

[Sciz]

Because next year, the Ravens running back corp is only going to get better with both Rice and Pierce in the backfield at the same time. Pierce is going to allow Rice to roam into passing patterns that much more.

If you actually think that the Ravens are going to extensively use Rice and Pierce in the backfield at the same time, that Fletcher is of absolutely no use on defense, and that Spikes and/or Hightower is too big of a liability to have on the field even in the base defense, then I see why you're so worried.

Thankfully, you'd be awfully alone in most of those beliefs.

 

[JackBauer]

Because next year, the Ravens running back corp is only going to get better with both Rice and Pierce in the backfield at the same time. Pierce is going to allow Rice to roam into passing patterns that much more.

So what? It seems silly to assume, given who we have playing in the key spots in question, that our defensive won't improve to at least a commensurate degree.

 

[belichick010405]

So what? ok.....

So what? It seems silly to assume, given who we have playing in the key spots in question, that our defensive won't improve to at least a commensurate degree.

 

[VrabelJr]

It all depends on whether or not you want a 3-down WLB that can play against the run while also depending against the pass or if you want a specialist. The way I see it, the Pats need a 4th linebacker that can start while still maintaining their use of the 4-3 formation.

Arthur Brown, Alec Ogletree, Sio Moore are the first three guys that are a lot like Lavonte David and Bobby Wagner who fills this same role but at middle linebacker. The Pats need this kind of linebacker badly. Outside of Mayo, who is adequate at best on covering running backs or tight end passing options, they don't have a versatile 3-down linebacker who can support their run defense and protect in the passing game against playoff-caliber teams.

Brown, Ogletree or Moore would fill that need quite well with preference to Brown because of his pedigree and background. Team Captain - Played MLB at KSU - Clean Cut Kid who is a team Player - All-American/All-Conference.

Brown has the intangibles that the Pats like.

Thanks. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but when I look to the future I envision Mayo ending up back at MLB, Spikes gone after his rookie deal unfortunately, Hightower at SLB and a good cover LB at WLB. Zavier Gooden and Arthur Brown are really interesting value prospects to me in the 2nd round if we haven't already addressed WR and/or DT. Although from what I can tell Arthur Brown is most likely a 1st rounder.

 

[belichick010405]

Yea - that is ok. It is not the first time that I have had a minority opinion even though the evidence is squarely staring at me.

When the Ravens start deploying their dual running back sets because they have Tommy Streeter, as of right now, replacing Boldin then they are going to need to deploy Rice more into the passing game.

It is only a matter of time that the Ravens start using Rice much like the way the Pats utilized Vereen in their passing game nevermind in the traditional intermediate passing game that he has enjoyed success with over the last four years....

If you actually think that the Ravens are going to extensively use Rice and Pierce in the backfield at the same time, that Fletcher is of absolutely no use on defense, and that Spikes and/or Hightower is too big of a liability to have on the field even in the base defense, then I see why you're so worried.

Thankfully, you'd be awfully alone in most of those beliefs.

 

[JackBauer]

So what? ok.....

You're assuming, all things being equal, that the Ravens will improve and the Patriots will not. It's an asinine assumption.

 

[belichick010405]

Thanks Jack...I will go ahead and remember that the next time the Pats and the Ravens square off.

You're assuming, all things being equal, that the Ravens will improve and the Patriots will not. It's an asinine assumption.

 

[JackBauer]

Thanks Jack...I will go ahead and remember that the next time the Pats and the Ravens square off.

Just to be clear, you are assuming that:

1.) The Ravens' weakness at WR will cause them to use more 2 back sets and force the ball to Rice more in the passing game. This is bad because the Patriots linebackers can't cover, even though Rice hasn't been a particularly dangerous threat in this capacity of late.

2.) The Patriots have a second year linebacker who should improve in coverage, a returning coverage linebacker, and a new "in the box" safety, but none are sufficient to contain a threat that hasn't really been much of a threat, so we should go ahead and draft a LB at 29.

Do I have this about right?

 

[belichick010405]

Jack, I am not assuming anything. The Ravens starting wide receiving corp is Torrey Smith and Streeter with Pitta at tight end. They are going to deploy Rice into passing routes more. Secondly, Hightower is not as effective in the passing game as he is attacking the line of scrimmage. It would make a lot more sense to get a 3-down WLB who can cover guys like Ray Rice or any other running back that the Pats are going to face this year which will be utilized extensively in the passing game.

Their opponents and their running backs who will play a significant role in the passing game:

(1) Denver - Ronnie Hillman
(2) New Orleans - Darren Sproles
(3) Miami - Lamar Miller
(4) Tampa Bay - Doug Martin
(5) Jets - Goodson/McKnight
(6) Bills - Spiller
(7) Browns - Richardson (very underrated option in their passing game)
(8) Atlanta - Rodgers
(9) Texans - Foster
(10) Ravens - Rice


These 10 opponents in 2013 represent their primary pass-catching options out of the backfield and I think that you would be hard-pressed to think that you want Hightower/Wilson/Fletcher on those guys in the passing game.

Just to be clear, you are assuming that:

1.) The Ravens' weakness at WR will cause them to use more 2 back sets and force the ball to Rice more in the passing game. This is bad because the Patriots linebackers can't cover, even though Rice hasn't been a particularly dangerous threat in this capacity of late.

2.) The Patriots have a second year linebacker who should improve in coverage and a new "in the box" safety, but neither are sufficient to contain a threat that hasn't really been much of a threat, so we should go ahead and draft a LB at 29.

Do I have this about right?