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jah

Degeneracy Expert
PatsFans.com Supporter
Let’s not forget Stidham looked like he threw a lateral and it should have been a fumble for 6 the other way. McDermott didn’t bother challenging in a blowout but I think he wins that challenge.

Thank goodness that experiment is over soon and this noise about a QB controversy is silenced.

At least give us a better group of QBs to argue over. This whole Cam vs Stidham (vs Hoyer) discussion is especially frustrating because it literally doesn't matter in any way who we give snaps to. They are all dead ends.
 
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One-If-By-Sea

In the Starting Line-Up
Ok, then I’ll take Bill and Josh’s word for it. Stidham lost his job to Hoyer before the season and has not started ahead of a guy that can’t throw.

The explanation for why that is so is as simple and as logical as it looks.
Might be. Hopefully Stidham will start this week or get cut. Either way we will be able to see or know if he is a bust or not. Until we have some direct knowledge, let's not prejudge any players like trolls do.
 

Ras-IR Dowling

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
It was very telling that Stidham only went 4 for 11. This overall scheme and offense just isn't good aside from Meyers/Harris and the lack of development or passing game is on Josh McDaniels. We need a new offensive coordinator. I don't think this is on Cam.

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I don’t want to change the offensive system but it may be time for a new voice.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
Lol, that was not a lateral at all, it was at least 2 yards forward from his position.

Released the ball at the 21 yard line and looked to me like it hit the ground at the 20 1/2 yard line. Possibly tipped though and that’s what they’d look at.

Also look at Stidham dancing around and panicking. That’s a vet QB? No thanks.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I don’t want to change the offensive system but it may be time for a new voice.

Look at Buffalo. Brian Daboll has done an awesome job developing Josh Allen and that whole offensive group. Meanwhile the Pats offense has been inept including the last 9 games last year with Brady and now this year. We have an OC who is exposed as nothing without Brady, who led league-worst offenses in St Louis and Denver before scurrying back to Brady. Agree yes let's keep the Pats system but we need a new offensive coordinator.

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Ras-IR Dowling

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Can it just be as simple as a guy wanting to see Stidham next Sunday because I’ve grown tired of watching Cam all year and the game means nothing?
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Lol, that was not a lateral at all, it was at least 2 yards forward from his position.
Not even close

Top image is the closest I could get to where his hand and arm were when the ball was thrown. Bottom is where the ball landed when it first touched ground. The most generous assessment of that is it’s either perfectly parallel or behind. If it’s not a lateral you need a goddamn protractor to make that measurement because that might be about the limit of an obtuse angle and a straight line as humanly possible if that’s not a lateral.



9498BE05-9629-41C5-B4A3-DE2F9AB5720C.jpegDC272104-B967-4F3A-B5F2-2B290BD5AF5A.jpeg
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
Not even close

Top image is the closest I could get to where his hand and arm were when the ball was thrown. Bottom is where the ball landed when it first touched ground. The most generous assessment of that is it’s either perfectly parallel or behind. If it’s not a lateral you need a goddamn protractor to make that measurement because that might be about the limit of an obtuse angle and a straight line as humanly possible if that’s not a lateral.



View attachment 29619View attachment 29620
It's obviously tipped by the defender watching the live clip. He's throwing to Harry 2 yards ahead of him. Considering the amount of arm strength used in the clip it obviously would not then only travel a footstep away unless it was tipped by the guy waving his arms right in front of it.
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Look at Buffalo. Brian Daboll has done an awesome job developing Josh Allen and that whole offensive group. Meanwhile the Pats offense has been inept including the last 9 games last year with Brady and now this year. We have an OC who is exposed as nothing without Brady, who led league-worst offenses in St Louis and Denver before scurrying back to Brady. Agree yes let's keep the Pats system but we need a new offensive coordinator.

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The thing is, Allen was at a worst 4 QB in his draft and was actually viewed as having the best arm of his draft. That was a lot of raw talent. The question was accuracy
 

lancerman

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
It's obviously tipped by the defender watching the live clip. He's throwing to Harry 2 yards ahead of him. Considering the amount of arm strength used in the clip it obviously would not then only travel a footstep away unless it was tipped by the guy waving his arms right in front of it.
You can slow that play down online if you want, it was not tipped by the defender. The defenders arm is over the ball before it gets there. It’s not even particular close watch it in slow motion. He moved his arm up thinking it was going to be higher and was out of position to touch it. Him and Stidham were basically playing cat and mouse for a second where he was feigning jumping to block it twice and Stidham threw it low. He clearly was trying to just get rid of it.

Stidham’s arm was clearly over the hash mark when the ball was released and it landed pretty much on the hash mark.
 

jah

Degeneracy Expert
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's obviously tipped by the defender watching the live clip. He's throwing to Harry 2 yards ahead of him. Considering the amount of arm strength used in the clip it obviously would not then only travel a footstep away unless it was tipped by the guy waving his arms right in front of it.

I wouldn't say it's obvious the defender was able to touch the ball, but it's possible. But like most 2020 Patriots QB related discussions, there is very little point to arguing about this one play. One play cannot prove that a QB sucks or doesn't suck. My evaluation of Stidham has largely been based on the coaching decisions related to him not reflecting well on him. There are ways that can be misleading too, mostly when the coaching staff themselves have the wrong idea about him, but absent any real evidence on our end, I'll defer to the GOAT head coach.
 

Steve:Section 102

A lion isn't concerned with the opinion of sheep
PatsFans.com Supporter
Look at Buffalo. Brian Daboll has done an awesome job developing Josh Allen and that whole offensive group. Meanwhile the Pats offense has been inept including the last 9 games last year with Brady and now this year. We have an OC who is exposed as nothing without Brady, who led league-worst offenses in St Louis and Denver before scurrying back to Brady. Agree yes let's keep the Pats system but we need a new offensive coordinator.

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If Josh wanted to explore other options, I would not be disappointed.
 

PaulThePat

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
No matter your views on QB, it's sad that there is one particular poster on here who hates on Stidham so much that they are absolutely desperate to create a turnover where one didn't happen.
 
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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
No matter your views on QB, it's sad that there is one particular poster on here who hates on Stidham so much that they are absolutely desperate to create a turnover where one didn't happen.

We don't need to argue about a turnover. Stidham went 4 for 11. He's not the answer. Also this shows it's not Cam, it's the entire offense.

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DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
The thing is, Allen was at a worst 4 QB in his draft and was actually viewed as having the best arm of his draft. That was a lot of raw talent. The question was accuracy

His yearly stats improvement has been dramatic. Kudos to Daboll. Never would have thought this based on Allen's rookie year.
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
You can slow that play down online if you want, it was not tipped by the defender. The defenders arm is over the ball before it gets there. It’s not even particular close watch it in slow motion. He moved his arm up thinking it was going to be higher and was out of position to touch it. Him and Stidham were basically playing cat and mouse for a second where he was feigning jumping to block it twice and Stidham threw it low. He clearly was trying to just get rid of it.

Stidham’s arm was clearly over the hash mark when the ball was released and it landed pretty much on the hash mark.
I'm just not seeing what you're seeing, though all I am looking at is this horrible resolution twitter clip. If you have something better I'll take a look at it. I could be wrong I guess but the physics I am seeing don't align with what you're saying. But, as others have said, little sense arguing it here since it's ultimately inconsequential. I am sure Bill will have better footage to determine if it was a bad play by Stidham or not.
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
For reference, here is the full quote from Stidham being used to say he was "whining about starting"...

STIDHAM: “I think everybody in the game of football wants to be playing every single week. So, yeah, I would absolutely love to have that opportunity. But that’s not in my control and I’m not going to focus on it. It’s not going to change the way I prepare. I prepare like I’m the starter, even going back to last year. That’s how I’ve always prepared each and every week. So, that’s not going to change my mindset and I’m just going to keep grinding and get better next week ... At the end of the day, whatever opportunity I’m given, I want to try and make the most of it. Whether that’s in the third quarter, the fourth quarter, whenever that is, I need to go out and make the most of it. That’s exactly what I’m trying to do.”
 

RIpats88

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
You go bargain shopping at QB and bargain production is what you will get.

The "patriot way" of lowballing guys is over. Brady isn't walking through that door to cover up all the warts
 

jdlboot14

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Released the ball at the 21 yard line and looked to me like it hit the ground at the 20 1/2 yard line. Possibly tipped though and that’s what they’d look at.

Also look at Stidham dancing around and panicking. That’s a vet QB? No thanks.
Hey, who can say he hasn't progressed?? The play was only designed for a Harry screen - but he didn't want to throw it and risk a pick-6. That's growth! :)
 

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