Stafford traded to Rams

[NE_Zealot]

Barstool's Jerry Thornton takes Stafford to the woodshed

Matthew Stafford Was Willing to Be Traded Anywhere Except New England | Barstool Sports

Exactly. Stat Padford is mentally soft.

 

[Sicilian]

Barstool's Jerry Thornton takes Stafford to the woodshed

Matthew Stafford Was Willing to Be Traded Anywhere Except New England | Barstool Sports

Jerry Thornton is entertaining, I like his stuff. Unabashed homer, but he wears that on his sleeve so you know what you're getting. And here I agree with his principle, but not his angle, if that makes sense.

His angle is that Matthew Stafford isn't Patriots material. In other words, that the Patriots are a winner organization and players who don't like it here aren't winners. I think that's too harsh. I think the principle of what he's saying though is sound: That you don't want players that don't mesh with your organizational style. That means sometimes you don't want otherwise talented players, because even though QB is the most important position, at the end of the day, it's still a team sport, and you need everyone pulling in the same direction.

Stafford has talent, and I'm sure he would have been "fine" here. But if he got a taste of what it's like to play for Belichick and didn't like it, he sure wasn't going to respond better to a whole mouthful.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Jerry Thornton is entertaining, I like his stuff. Unabashed homer, but he wears that on his sleeve so you know what you're getting. And here I agree with his principle, but not his angle, if that makes sense.

His angle is that Matthew Stafford isn't Patriots material. In other words, that the Patriots are a winner organization and players who don't like it here aren't winners. I think that's too harsh. I think the principle of what he's saying though is sound: That you don't want players that don't mesh with your organizational style. That means sometimes you don't want otherwise talented players, because even though QB is the most important position, at the end of the day, it's still a team sport, and you need everyone pulling in the same direction.

Stafford has talent, and I'm sure he would have been "fine" here. But if he got a taste of what it's like to play for Belichick and didn't like it, he sure wasn't going to respond better to a whole mouthful.

I agree with this.
I was thinking and I’ve heard it mentioned from the talking heads previously.
Players are more inclined to do what Bill asks them to because of the proven results.
Patricia,McDaniels, Obrein try to enforce That kind of Belichick do your job mantra.
However they aren’t respected like Bill is and players will second guess and sometimes downright reject the idea to their face and cause a split in the locker room.
That doesn’t happen under BB because players believe he will lead them to success. Personally and team goals.
It could just be as simple as Stafford’s dislike of Patricia and said I don’t want any chance that I’m being coached or talked to by him.
I’d love to hear Stafford explain it sometime.
Could also just be as simple as the warm weather aspect.

 

[Sicilian]

I agree with this.
I was thinking and I’ve heard it mentioned from the talking heads previously.
Players are more inclined to do what Bill asks them to because of the proven results.
Patricia,McDaniels, Obrein try to enforce That kind of Belichick do your job mantra.
However they aren’t respected like Bill is and players will second guess and sometimes downright reject the idea to their face and cause a split in the locker room.
That doesn’t happen under BB because players believe he will lead them to success. Personally and team goals.
It could just be as simple as Stafford’s dislike of Patricia and said I don’t want any chance that I’m being coached or talked to by him.
I’d love to hear Stafford explain it sometime.
Could also just be as simple as the warm weather aspect.

For sure. I would also say that there's a very subtle difference between using Belichick's style in a way that people respond to, and using it in a way that REALLY alienates them. That subtly is something not everyone can do, and Bill (for better or worse) has been practicing it for most of his coaching career. Also, he was able to get players to respond to it early in his Patriots tenure, which then gave him a core group of leaders that spoke the gospel and could carry that tradition forward through the years. Patricia tried to come into a cold situation and start doing that, and it blew up in his face.

I honestly think this is why a lot of BB assistants fail as head coaches. For one, it's hard in general to be a successful one in this league. But for another, they try to BE Bill Belichick, in his entirety, when what they should do is take some of the lessons they learned from him and apply it to their own personality. Flores seems to be doing this in Miami, and is having relative success so far. We'll see if he keeps it up. The next best guy has been O'Brien, but while he seemed to have his own coaching style that worked, he tried to bring the Belichick Hardball philosophy when it came to contracts and team building, and he (and the Texans situation) just wasn't suited for that, so he killed that team. Hopefully (for his sake, not for ours) Caserio is smart enough not to make that same mistake.

Belichick's way of doing things isn't the only way of doing things, but is the only way that HE can do things while being genuine to himself. His assistants should remember that when they get their own gigs.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Stafford to the Rams will be like Kirk Cousins to the Vikings.

 

[203Pat]

Barstool's Jerry Thornton takes Stafford to the woodshed

Matthew Stafford Was Willing to Be Traded Anywhere Except New England | Barstool Sports

Guy is a clown. Why the hell would a 33 year old QB want to come from a perennially rebuilding franchise to a rebuilding team? Why would he want to play with N’Keal Harry and Damere Byrd when he could play with Robert Woods and Cooper Kupp? Why would he want to play in an offense that mustered a whopping 10 TD passes last year when he could play for an offensive mastermind in sunny LA?

This “woe is me” everyone is against us crap is just laughable.

 

[venecol]

Just some background on the trade transactions/rumors that might put into more pespective, or at least my amateur take on them. There are three coaches are pretty intertwined due to their work together, close friendships, and (somewhat) shared offensive philosophy.

• Sean McVay (Rams)
• Kyle Shanahan (49ers)
• Matt LaFleur (Packers)

McVay and Shanahan were assistant coaches in Washington; LaFleur was Shanahan's assistant in Atlanta.

The offense that Shanahan and McVay use involves a lot of outside runs, or sweeps, and is rooted in Mike Shanahan's old zone blocking run scheme with Denver. The philosophy around it is to force the defense into a simple concept involving isolating a linebacker against the running back; this matchup is critical because it often forces good defenses into its worst vulnerability. Hence, like Mike Shanahan's old Denver offenses, you see a lot of home run plays from RBs in San Francisco, much moreseo than with other teams, as it isn't uncommon to see them break off 80-yard TD runs.

We saw the concept used in Atlanta in 2016 under Shanahan if you think about those big outside runs by Devonta Freeman. He brought it to San Francisco and brought over Tevin Coleman while also plugging in guys like Matt Breida and Raheem Moestert. The ideal running back is a very fast/quick one that excels at a single cut and then explosive vertical acceleration and speed. This offense can cause fits for normally good defenses; we saw the Patriots struggle with Mike Shanahan's scheme for many years despite the Broncos having sub-par quarterbacks. In Los Angeles, Todd Gurley was an ideal (but very expensive) running back who almost won MVP in 2017.

Because the offense uses a pretty unique concept and often the same formation, the matchups it causes with wide receivers and tight ends is usually somewhat predictable. Defenses can change matchups and the routes are often different, but it isn't as complicated as most offenses in terms of a huge amount of combinations and variations. So before the play, the defense isn't in total suspense at what's coming. Stopping it is a lot harder, though. It is kind of like an RPO in that sense, where it boils things down to simplicity, but it's a little different because there's less decision making on behalf of the QB.

And that's why the QB responsibilities for the Rams, 49ers, and Packers is different from most teams. Kyle Shanahan's big contribution to his father's concept is integrating it with the modern passing game. He uses a lot of predictive analytical models, so before the play, he's broken down the chances of which decision the coach/defender will make and the odds of success for each option. Thus, quarterbacks in these systems generally don't have a lot of improvisational responsibilities and reading a defense on multiple levels isn't a highly valued skill. It was clear when Jimmy Garoppolo merged with Kyle Shanahan in 2017 that, while they won a lot of games, it still wasn't really the right system fit for Garoppolo, who excelled in his short time in New England in a read/react system.

So who are the ideal quarterbacks? Guys who are really accurate, have good arm strength, and appear to be more robotic in their approach. Run the play, throw the ball to player X or possibly to player Y because they are the open route by design. Matt Ryan was a perfect fit for the system, as he is someone who struggles to buy time in the pocket and improvise but is money when he only has to throw to the right spot. Matt Stafford would be absolutely ideal as well with his arm strength and accuracy, not having to look off defenders but just knowing where to put the ball. Kirk Cousins is another guy who would be an ideal fit, for the same reasons, that he's very coachable, does the right things, makes the right throws, even has good stats, but lacks the improvisational skills.

Notable: Ryan, Stafford, and Cousins all have good statistics, don't really struggle with a specific aspect of the game, but find themselves on losing teams and are frequently criticized as either being the problem, or at the very least, not part of the solution. And a lot of that has to do with their very structured, "safe" approach to the game that to fans often looks like they don't care about winning when in fact they just take a "by the book" approach to the game. They'd fit in well with the Shanahan offense.

This is also likely why the Packers likely drafted Jordan Love in the first round, knowing that while Aaron Rodgers is an all-time great player, paying $40M to him doesn't necessarily make sense when there are other needs and LaFleur might get 80% of the same success from an accurate, though less spectacular quarterback.

Interesting. Maybe Shanahan and McVay hate LaFleur and are sending Goff and JG to the NFCN to give Rodgers some real competition and take Lafleur down a notch. I mean he was just an assistant to an assistant. Great call though on that 4th and goal.

 

[venecol]

Count me on the side of questioning quality of FAs that'll want to come to the Patriots in 2021. We already saw several receivers turn down the Pats for other teams in 2019 and that's when Brady was still here.

Without a QB, no quality receiver would want to come here unless BB showers them with money and we know that ain't happening. Therefore, no top 10 QB will want to come here without quality weapons (and no we don't have quality weapons despite having a decent RB corps). This Stafford deal is just going to make it even more difficult to land a good QB in FAcy.

I expect BB will go after some reclamation project similar to Cam, some has been QB that's just looking to play for whatever. Guys like Jaboo, One Snap, or Pineapple Express.

This is where Brady's intangible benefits are sorely missed. BB lucked out having not only the GOAT but a guy willing to put up with sh%t, take one for the team, a 100% buy-in to the Patriot Way. I don't see that happening again. We know this about Brady because we just saw him doing it again in Tampa of all places.

Imo 2021 won't be much better than this year. Maybe we get 9 wins depending on Cam's progress (I think we keep him). I think Linda must've shown BB any one of the dozen cringe videos by Kennedy to where Stidham will never be the starting QB for the Pats. Lmao.

 

[captain stone]

I expect BB will go after some reclamation project similar to Cam, some has been QB that's just looking to play for whatever. Guys like Jaboo, One Snap, or Pineapple Express.

I gotta ask: Who are Jaboo, One Snap & Pineapple Express?

 

[venecol]

I gotta ask: Who are Jaboo, One Snap & Pineapple Express?

Winston, Jacoby, and Mariota. Lol
Still young guys so not really has beens. Rather wanna play instead of being bench warmers.

 

[PatsDeb]

What an awful deal for the Rams. Give up a younger QB for an older QB in a lateral move. I’m a UGA fan btw. Neither of these teams will do sh*t.

Totally agree. I haven't had time to read through this whole thread, but I am sure there are many of you out there that felt the same way I did when I read about this deal. WTF Rams? You got totally fleeced. I could see a swap of Goff and Stafford with the 3rd rounder this year, but two first rounders, next year and the year after? LMAO. Good luck to both teams; they're going to need it.

 

[sean10mm]

The Rams paid in picks to get Goff off the books. They actively wanted him gone. That's why the trade is so lopsided on paper, it's not just about player value but also radioactive contract disposal.

 

[sb1]

So there's a bit more to the story now.

Patriots Reportedly Question Matthew Stafford, Not Surprised By Rejection - NESN.com

The New England Patriots reportedly weren't surprised that Matthew Stafford had no interest in them and have questions about the quarterback.

nesn.com

The Pats were not the only team Stafford didn't want to be traded to despite the hand wringing from the media trying to spin this into an anti-BB narrative which is the thing to do these days.

Stafford reportedly told the Detroit Lions he would not accept a trade to three teams: the Patriots, Carolina Panthers and Denver Broncos.

Also Bedard:
After a few days of talking with various sources around the league, hyperbole has given way to reality, both for the Patriots and the Rams. How did the Patriots react to this?

As you would expect, the Patriots met the news of Stafford not wanting to play there with a bit of a shrug and, “Not surprised.” Why? Well, let’s just say there are lingering questions about how hard Stafford wants to be coached and whether the Texas native wants to live and play in a harsh weather environment in the Northeast.

Seems weird that they'd say this and yet still offer a 2nd rounder + player. Could be sour grapes. Or maybe what they offered was their ceiling to get a QB that they wondered if he was a fit.

 

[Sicilian]

Seems weird that they'd say this and yet still offer a 2nd rounder + player. Maybe that's why they didn't push it to a first?

I think with every decision like this you have a risk/reward ratio that's acceptable for you. In their mind, they felt a 2nd rounder was a reasonable risk in case they could get Stafford to buy in, while a 1st or more was not. Given the hit rate on 2nd rounders (around the league, not just for the Pats), that wouldn't surprise me.

 

[venecol]

So there's a bit more to the story now.

Patriots Reportedly Question Matthew Stafford, Not Surprised By Rejection - NESN.com

The New England Patriots reportedly weren't surprised that Matthew Stafford had no interest in them and have questions about the quarterback.

nesn.com

Stafford reportedly told the Detroit Lions he would not accept a trade to three teams: the Patriots, Carolina Panthers and Denver Broncos.

How did the Patriots react to this? As you would expect, the Patriots met the news of Stafford not wanting to play there with a bit of a shrug and, “Not surprised.” Why? Well, let’s just say there are lingering questions about how hard Stafford wants to be coached and whether the Texas native wants to live and play in a harsh weather environment in the Northeast.

Seems weird that they'd say this and yet still offer a 2nd rounder + player.

If they really believed Stafford doesn't want to be coached hard and yet offered a 2nd rounder + a player for him, it smells of desperation, either way its troubling.

 

[JMC00]

Stafford reportedly told the Detroit Lions he would not accept a trade to three teams: the Patriots, Carolina Panthers and Denver Broncos


Guess the Panthers and Broncos can't attract players either........ Stafford turning down an offense of Jerry Judy, Cortland Sutton, Tim Patrick, Melvin Gordon and Noah Fant.... They were probably Stafford away from being a playoff team.

 

[Sicilian]

If they really believed Stafford doesn't want to be coached hard and yet offered a 2nd rounder + a player for him, it smells of desperation, either way its troubling.

A second rounder is what you spend on a talented player with a big question mark, aka, drafting Gronk with his injury history. Doesn't sound overly desperate to me. And if that player was Jarrett Stidham, does that change the equation?

 

[RobertWeathers]

So there's a bit more to the story now.

Patriots Reportedly Question Matthew Stafford, Not Surprised By Rejection - NESN.com

The New England Patriots reportedly weren't surprised that Matthew Stafford had no interest in them and have questions about the quarterback.

nesn.com

The Pats were not the only team Stafford didn't want to be traded to despite the hand wringing from the media trying to spin this into an anti-BB narrative which is the thing to do these days.

Stafford reportedly told the Detroit Lions he would not accept a trade to three teams: the Patriots, Carolina Panthers and Denver Broncos.

Also Bedard:
After a few days of talking with various sources around the league, hyperbole has given way to reality, both for the Patriots and the Rams. How did the Patriots react to this?

As you would expect, the Patriots met the news of Stafford not wanting to play there with a bit of a shrug and, “Not surprised.” Why? Well, let’s just say there are lingering questions about how hard Stafford wants to be coached and whether the Texas native wants to live and play in a harsh weather environment in the Northeast.

Seems weird that they'd say this and yet still offer a 2nd rounder + player. Could be sour grapes. Or maybe what they offered was their ceiling to get a QB that they wondered if he was a fit.

I'm absolutely convinced Stafford wanted no part of the commitment it takes to play here.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If they really believed Stafford doesn't want to be coached hard and yet offered a 2nd rounder + a player for him, it smells of desperation, either way its troubling.

Why is it desperation? Two firsts the Labs gave up reeks of desperation. Not a 2nd.

 

[yukon cornelius]

if teams didn't put offers in even on players they didn't exactly covet, you'd never see anyone overpay......it's part of the process, and it makes sense