so let's end this debate. wes welker or julien edelman?

[bormio]

It was noted JE had 5 catches on 13 targets - and the poster was criticizing his drops. Most of the 8 incomplete were not catchable - on one Brady missed him for a huge gain. Brady looks at JE a lot - so when he needs to unload it, he will without trying to complete it. JE had one flat out drop in the SB and a couple of other tough, contested catches he did not make. The incredible catch he made was on a pass that should never have been thrown, and was very nearly picked.

 

[English Patriot]

I appreciate all that Welker did and loved him in a Pats uni but i'm sorry that drop is unforgivable, some guys just don't have it in those moments and some guys do and Jules is made of the right stuff that the moment won't ever be too big for him.

I mean good god how clutch has Edelman been in Superbowls! Outrageous level of play at the height of pressure.

And before those that want to counter me, explain why Manningham had no problem making the most ridiculous of catch that was infinitely more difficult than Welker's drop? Rhetorical question btw.

 

[wizwor]

One of the reasons we have won with Edelman and lost with Welker is that we have actually had a defense since JE became a starter. The defense from '09 to '12 left a lot to be desired (and was aging in '08). But Welker should still have caught the ball.

Plus Jules caught the pass

 

[The Scrizz]

Wow, I thought that Jules would win this poll but Welker with 4 votes? That's a little crazy. I think 1 catch in the SB and that's an entirely different conversation.

I've loved Edelman since he got here, punt returns, playing CB when we needed him! But Welker deserves his due as well. It's a shame he went to Denver where a duck-thrower can get you killed going over the middle. I think if stays here he gets at least 1 maybe 2 more years on his career. Welker in the slot, Jules outside would have been fun to watch.

 

[1960Pats]

I honestly think it was WW's agent that blew it by being so hard-nosed with the negotiations, and that it was he who caused the divorce, not WW nor BB.

What sticks with me is just how shell-shocked WW was at the Denver presser.

Right. I don't think Wes and his agent knew what hit them when they came back to the Pats and BB told them we're on to Amendola.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

This. I loved Wes, but Jules has the same kind of stones as Brady. When the chips are down he doesn't miss the catch. Plus, he's always been more versatile. I still remember him being on the return team years ago and plucking that tipped ball out of the air and running it right into the EZ in that Jets game on Thanksgiving night in 2012. I remember when the Pats didn't re-sign Wes and many (like me) were like, "you're going with Julian Edelman, really?" And we've never missed Wes. Go Jules.

Wes, Randy, Junior and others played their hearts out for us. Winning a Super Bowl is NOT the measure of a winner or a great Patriot (see Pats from '60-'00). The only dark cloud hovering over the 21st-century Patriots is the miserable flying elvis left over from 90's-Orthwein-Parcells-Bledsoe forgettable losing era. I feel I need a tetanus shot just from looking at it. It's the exact image of a decomposing corpse.

Hey, so maybe Orthwein was on the right track, after all. F.E. is an historically accurate depiction of what a Revolutionary-era minuteman would look like today.

Right after he was dug up from the ground.

 

[Satchboogie3]

This "oh Welker drops the ball and Jules doesn't!" is absurd. Jules dropped MULTIPLE balls in the Superbowl. If Atlanta had gotten a FG on that drive that f*cked up and the Pats lost, you bet people would be remembering that HUGE Edelman drop on 3rd down when he had a clear lane to pick up the 1st (first drive in the 2nd half).

That said, I right now pick Edelman over Welker just because of his intensity, will, and connection with Brady. The guy is such a motivator and leader of the team. Welker was certainly a tough SOB and had ridiculous chemistry with Brady, but Edelman is maybe the most intense, fearless, motivating receiver I've ever seen.

But let's stop the Welker hate. Welker is easily one of the best receivers to put on a Patriots jersey.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

That was me, Bormio. The whole receiving corps had problems with the ball until the 4th quarter, catchable balls included. I have at least one in mind absolutely uncontestably muffed and an impression of others, so I'll have to go to the YouTube machine and get back to you on whether I owe JE an apology... but I don't think so. That Bennett would-be game-ender might have been special if he caught it - it wasn't perfect. But it's the SB, and they're pro receivers.

That said, if there are 7 uncatchables in there, and I'm just mis-remembering the eight one, which I know was a pure and simple muff, I'll own up to it.

About not making the big-time play in the clutch situation... wellllllll, I'm of two minds about it, which might be why BB is a genius and I am a shmuck. The sample size is miniscule for those catches... but if it works for BB works for me.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Eh couldn't find, will have to go to full game on this one LOL... I am sure NFLN will have to show it again. Ha ha NFLN.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

Edelman - 1
Welker - 1A

Both great players. Wes read his clippings too many times. That and the fact that he left on such a low took a little bit of the shine off him.

 

[bormio]

That was me, Bormio. The whole receiving corps had problems with the ball until the 4th quarter, catchable balls included. I have at least one in mind absolutely uncontestably muffed and an impression of others, so I'll have to go to the YouTube machine and get back to you on whether I owe JE an apology... but I don't think so. That Bennett would-be game-ender might have been special if he caught it - it wasn't perfect. But it's the SB, and they're pro receivers.

That said, if there are 7 uncatchables in there, and I'm just mis-remembering the eight one, which I know was a pure and simple muff, I'll own up to it.

About not making the big-time play in the clutch situation... wellllllll, I'm of two minds about it, which might be why BB is a genius and I am a shmuck. The sample size is miniscule for those catches... but if it works for BB works for me.

Sometimes I think JE tries to run before he secures the ball - YAC are huge for him. I have seen him drop a number of balls on crossing routes by looking upfield before catching it. Ironically, in crunch time, I think he focuses more on the catch, and has fewer drops.

 

[MrNathanDrake]

EDELMAN more clutch and better with the deep ball

 

[PatsDeb]

Wes, Randy, Junior and others played their hearts out for us. Winning a Super Bowl is NOT the measure of a winner or a great Patriot (see Pats from '60-'00). The only dark cloud hovering over the 21st-century Patriots is the miserable flying elvis left over from 90's-Orthwein-Parcells-Bledsoe forgettable losing era. I feel I need a tetanus shot just from looking at it. It's the exact image of a decomposing corpse.

Hey, so maybe Orthwein was on the right track, after all. F.E. is an historically accurate depiction of what a Revolutionary-era minuteman would look like today.

Right after he was dug up from the ground.

 

[Italian Patriot]

As I much as I can appreciate Wes, it's a no brainer.

Edelman bring much more, as a player and as a leader.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

What is amazing is that I remember threads a few years back about how their skill sets really weren't that similar despite surface "quickness" similarities. (and, well, you know... you're dreaming if you think you can replace WW...)

Fast forward to this debate, with all that ice on Edelman's fingers and as I understand it, Wes never to own a ring (as a player).

I still stand by my statement regarding small sample sizes and "clutchness." I don't dispute that e.g., Adam V. was the "most clutch kicker evah," but I will say that 99% of that was him being a pretty good kicker, and it came out right against the Raiders, Rams, and Panthers when it counted.

A lot of people slumped in the first half against Atlanta. What a strange thing to say about the team that fought back from 25 down. But to do that you have to be 25 down.

60 minutes is just the right length for a (regulation) football game.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

So "bb a football life" is on and rookie Julian Edelman returns a punt for a TD.

B.B. Turns to Wes on the sidelines and says "you know who Wally Pipp is?" WW says no. BB says "Wally Pipp played first base for the Yankees b4 they got Lou Gehrig. The next 1500 games. He might be returning punts the next 1500 games."*

WW says w/a smile "he can have it."

BB says "Way to compete" and turns his back.

*I'm not a baseball historian & going from memory... might have heard/remembered the details wrong... but that was the basic exchange

 

[Brady_2_Moss]

Moss opened up a lot of opportunity for Welker. Not saying he wasn't an excellent slot WR, but he also benefited from a great situation for several seasons. To me, Edelman's passion for the game outweighs any edge Welker might have otherwise.

 

[AzorianPats]

This "oh Welker drops the ball and Jules doesn't!" is absurd. Jules dropped MULTIPLE balls in the Superbowl. If Atlanta had gotten a FG on that drive that f*cked up and the Pats lost, you bet people would be remembering that HUGE Edelman drop on 3rd down when he had a clear lane to pick up the 1st (first drive in the 2nd half).

That said, I right now pick Edelman over Welker just because of his intensity, will, and connection with Brady. The guy is such a motivator and leader of the team. Welker was certainly a tough SOB and had ridiculous chemistry with Brady, but Edelman is maybe the most intense, fearless, motivating receiver I've ever seen.

But let's stop the Welker hate. Welker is easily one of the best receivers to put on a Patriots jersey.

I rate Jules more then Welker, but it's ironic Welker remembered for the catches he didn't Make, while Jules will be for the catches he did because all and all Welker had better hands than JE11.

When it comes to hands, Amendola craps on them both though.

 

[ZoisKing]

I don't really care who's better between the two. I've loved them both for their contributions to the team.

However, I was looking at playoff stats and noticed that Edelman is now 3rd all time in receptions with 89 and 13th all time in receiving yards with 1024.

If he was able to somehow mimic the last 4 years he's had in playoff production he could challenge Jerry Rice's all time playoff records in catches (153) and receiving yards (2245).

That's asking a lot from a guy who puts himself in harms way as much as Edelman does. Hopefully he can stay healthy and the Pats can keep competing so he'll have a chance.

 

[Gumby]

This thread reminds me of this clip.

Hadn't seen this one before somehow. NOW, I know that Ernie Adams is on the headphones during games too. Interesting.

What a moment. Portends their whole relationship. just how he talks here, WW sounds like a real blockhead here. As compared to his foot presser, which was brilliant.

"Ever hear of Wally Pipp?"
. . .

"He can have it."
"Way to compete" [whhaaat, you don't care if someone takes your job and yards!!]