so let's end this debate. wes welker or julien edelman?

[chumpchange]

This thread reminds me of this clip.

One thing I love about this is that Bill can just ask Ernie any sports question ever, no matter how little known, and he completely and correctly expects that Ernie will just know the answer off the top of his head.

 

[bormio]

One thing I love about this is that Bill can just ask Ernie any sports question ever, no matter how little known, and he completely and correctly expects that Ernie will just know the answer off the top of his head.

Probably not just sports questions. Wonder if Ernie can change the time on the car radio?

 

[chumpchange]

Probably not just sports questions. Wonder if Ernie can change the time on the car radio?

I think there's a very good chance that the first time Bill was showed how to use the new Siri feature on his iPhone, his first reaction was, "Oh, I've had one of these things for years, but mine is called Ernie, not Siri."

 

[1960Pats]

i think people are making way too much about that conversation, it happened during a preseason game. and i dont want the team's best players returning punts in a meaningless game.

The conversation was the important part and was about the big picture. Once Wes knew what BB was talking about he was perfectly willing to give up the punt return duties. That would strike a chord with any coach and brought out the 'way to compete' reply from BB.

 

[rochrist]

Love both, Jules has made some of the greatest play in our history.

However, I feel to choose one you bring down the other, and I have far too much respect for both who have contributed to 17 years of bliss.

Oh, Jules has never taken the piss out of RR in a presser....Welker all the way!

How did that end up?

 

[Brit patriot]

How did that end up?

Good point, well made

 

[juny]

The conversation was the important part and was about the big picture. Once Wes knew what BB was talking about he was perfectly willing to give up the punt return duties. That would strike a chord with any coach and brought out the 'way to compete' reply from BB.

It seems to me that if BB questioned someone's competitiveness he would get rid of them sooner than later. WW played 4 full seasons after that chat and was only gone after he tested free agency. I don't think BB waits that long if he detested someone's work ethic.

 

[bigballas]

better question is the guy the brought in to replace welker (amendola) vs welker. i like Amendola just because he's so f'n clutch. i know he doesnt have the production, but thats not a factor of him lacking skill...just with gronk and edelman, so little to go around now

 

[1960Pats]

It seems to me that if BB questioned someone's competitiveness he would get rid of them sooner than later. WW played 4 full seasons after that chat and was only gone after he tested free agency. I don't think BB waits that long if he detested someone's work ethic.

I'm not saying that Welker was dumped because of his comment, but it definitely said something about his attitude.

I don't know what Wes's contract was at the time so that may have contributed to the delay in his leaving. That and the fact that Wes was a great player and very valuable.

At some point though it looked like JE was taking WW's minutes. I remember fans discussing that here back then but I'm not exactly sure of the timeline. It seems like JE got hurt and WW came back, but was gone in the next off-season.

My only question now is who are the three posters who picked Welker.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I really don't know why we tip-toe around this issue. WW and JE both have a ton of sole. Both have ankle breaking moves and and made DBs heel. Both fought for that extra foot of yardage.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

better question is the guy the brought in to replace welker (amendola) vs welker. i like Amendola just because he's so f'n clutch. i know he doesnt have the production, but thats not a factor of him lacking skill...just with gronk and edelman, so little to go around now

Randy Vataha was clutch for us too...he even filled in at DB a bit in '76...

 

[PP2]

I'm not saying that Welker was dumped because of his comment, but it definitely said something about his attitude.

I don't know what Wes's contract was at the time so that may have contributed to the delay in his leaving. That and the fact that Wes was a great player and very valuable.

At some point though it looked like JE was taking WW's minutes. I remember fans discussing that here back then but I'm not exactly sure of the timeline. It seems like JE got hurt and WW came back, but was gone in the next off-season.

My only question now is who are the three posters who picked Welker.

I honestly think it was WW's agent that blew it by being so hard-nosed with the negotiations, and that it was he who caused the divorce, not WW nor BB.

What sticks with me is just how shell-shocked WW was at the Denver presser.

 

[wizwor]

better question is the guy the brought in to replace welker (amendola) vs welker. i like Amendola just because he's so f'n clutch. i know he doesnt have the production, but thats not a factor of him lacking skill...just with gronk and edelman, so little to go around now

It's a different question, but I'm not sure it is better. We have been comparing JE to WW forever. Wes was a tough kid who was in sync with TB12 and left everything on the field. Off the field, he was not a Patriot. Wes was disrespectful of others -- including Coach. Most important, he did not make a tough catch that most feel cost the Pats a Lombardi. Jules is a tough guy too. He's in sync with TB12 and leaves everything on the field. Off the field, he is a Patriot. He's humble, respectful, and has his own hair -- a lot of it. Most important, he made an IMPOSSIBLE catch that most feel was key to bringing home a Lombardi. I find it difficult to believe anyone would take Welker over Edelman with each at their prime -- and I'm not sure Jules has peaked.

That 'other' guy had a great LI. He and James White combined for a couple unlikely two point conversions. Amendola caught the first touchdown pass and the second pass for the conversion. Again, clutch -- Mr. Reliable.

It was great to have Welker while he was here, but the team got better after he left. We don't need a poll -- of course the guy who made the catch is the better player.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Wes had a little success here and it went to his head...

ow.

Anyhoo, the poll is badly worded. It should have been "at his peak" or something. Right now, Pats fans would much rather have Edelman, since we have him and yay we won. Before, we had Wes, and boo, we lost.

Without the victory and that one incredible catch, we'd be talking about Julian Edelman for his drops. Sorry, I love him for the catch and the win and all he did in this effort, and yes I love him for the other catches that he did make, but overall he couldn't catch ebola in a Congolese emergency room, couldn't catch cholera in a third world latrine, couldn't catch the clap in a Bangkok brothel, couldn't catch a dolphin in a tuna net, and couldn't catch hell from Andy Capp's wife. He could sign a contract with the devil holding onto a magical monkey's paw, and there wouldn't be a catch. 13 targets, 5 grabs...

But yeah, I voted Edelman. Know why? (1) THE catch... somehow he saved up all his concentration, effort, and let's face it, good fortune for getting us the equivalent of a Tyree/Kearse crazy catch.... I dunno I just wanted one of them... (2) Mic'd up predicting that the Pats still win it at half time - hell if you were on the gameday thread, you know half the Pats fans had quit on them, and all we have to do is mouth off and drink beer, and (3) He's the present, WW's the past, and it wasn't the SB-winning past either, bless his bloated helmet.

I dunno, nothing against Wes, he was a good foot-soldier while here And to the point at hand (no pun intended,) Wes Welker was a catch machine. He could rack up some stats, don't get me wrong. And he could help us get within a whisker... but never over the hump. Do we put the win/loss on these two specific receivers? Oh hell no. Shortly after we acquired Welker, just like everybody else here, I was amazed at what BB and co. could get out of him that the Dolphins couldn't... Moss was the shiny object, Welker was the stealth pickup. That year was magical (and then crushing).

What happens if we plug WW in his prime into JE's role in SB LI? Who knows. For a stretch there he was the best slot receiver EVAH and yeah I know he wasn't always in the slot. But he wasn't without his own clutch drops. Was there an intangible difference in heart? I freaking don't know. Even if we stuck electrodes on them and took fMRIs of their brains, or some more perfect technology, I don't know whether we'd get good data given the number of concussions on Welker's end. So I'll default to conflating correlation with causation, like any good fanatic would.

JE = winning super bowls
WW = losing super bowls

It feels better to vote JE. Nice to be a fan rather than a talent evaluator.

 

[bigballas]

It's a different question, but I'm not sure it is better. We have been comparing JE to WW forever. Wes was a tough kid who was in sync with TB12 and left everything on the field. Off the field, he was not a Patriot. Wes was disrespectful of others -- including Coach. Most important, he did not make a tough catch that most feel cost the Pats a Lombardi. Jules is a tough guy too. He's in sync with TB12 and leaves everything on the field. Off the field, he is a Patriot. He's humble, respectful, and has his own hair -- a lot of it. Most important, he made an IMPOSSIBLE catch that most feel was key to bringing home a Lombardi. I find it difficult to believe anyone would take Welker over Edelman with each at their prime -- and I'm not sure Jules has peaked.

That 'other' guy had a great LI. He and James White combined for a couple unlikely two point conversions. Amendola caught the first touchdown pass and the second pass for the conversion. Again, clutch -- Mr. Reliable.

It was great to have Welker while he was here, but the team got better after he left. We don't need a poll -- of course the guy who made the catch is the better player.

i totally agree that it's hard to take anyone serious that would pick edelman over welker with sound rationalization of what the respective players brought to the table. hence why i said its better to compare the guy that was brought in to replace welker vs welker.

as soon as welker snubbed the front office and signed with Denver, BB and crew went out and signed Amendola to a relative big contract for WR here in NE. It was from all we can gather supposed to be a more direct replacement. Problem was he got that groin pull at beginning of season and Edelmania took over. What the team discovered Edelman can do was bring the same play call plus added flexibility. Combined that with the team starting to move around Gronk more inside/outside wide...it opened up more mismatches which is what this team loves to exploit. Hence it made it important to keep Edelman on field along with Gronk because they can move the pieces around to exploit between the hashes and outside when the opportunity is there.

now back to Amendola, they realized with 11 & 87 they can audible to more more plays both inside and outside, so 80 had his role cut back. However, 80 has been clutch when on field for us and serves the role the Welker played for us (inside, crossing, quick outs)..don't get me wrong Welker was a baller for us and should be in Pats HOF for his contribution. But i personally think Amendola provides us more and comes up when we ask him to and he could easily fill the role welker played if thats what our offense still needed. Plus 80 came up clutch in several games in 2014 season (regular/post) to help us get title then too...

good problems to debate

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I see a progression, Troy brown, then Wes, then Jules. Different eras, and to me, all great players, all dynamic, all great pats. It's just a shame Wes was here in the down era.

 

[wizwor]

good problems to debate

No kidding. Can you think of another team whose fanbase would not be losing their collective mind over the likely departure of Martellus Bennett? Good times.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

No kidding. Can you think of another team whose fanbase would not be losing their collective mind over the likely departure of Martellus Bennett? Good times.

Don't get ****y... the present template depends at least in part on having pass game production at the TE position - and the ability to use that same receiving TE to block...

Now, that's the 2016 team, and that's some, not all, plays. Doesn't mean it's the 2017 team. But a healthy Gronk gate to gate is just never a given. So it would be very handy to have a "poor man's Gronk" on board. Of course, switch out a rook for a knight and a bishop, and BB will make the 2017 team the best it can be. So, there's that.

Ahhhhh the off-season.

You realize we haven't won one game in the 2017 regular season????

 

[bormio]

One of the reasons we have won with Edelman and lost with Welker is that we have actually had a defense since JE became a starter. The defense from '09 to '12 left a lot to be desired (and was aging in '08). But Welker should still have caught the ball.

 

[PatsDeb]

Wes is better statistically but Julian has the big plays, clutch moments, and the rings. Its like comparing Peyton Manning to Tom Brady. Brady and Jules all day.

This. I loved Wes, but Jules has the same kind of stones as Brady. When the chips are down he doesn't miss the catch. Plus, he's always been more versatile. I still remember him being on the return team years ago and plucking that tipped ball out of the air and running it right into the EZ in that Jets game on Thanksgiving night in 2012. I remember when the Pats didn't re-sign Wes and many (like me) were like, "you're going with Julian Edelman, really?" And we've never missed Wes. Go Jules.