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Scary Good Defense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DaBruinz, Aug 18, 2019.

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  1. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So far, this pre-season, the youngsters on the defense have shined. This week we get to really see the Vets like Bennett and Gilmore and how they are gelling.

    When it comes to just name recognition, the defense is ridiculous. Hightower, Collins, Bennett, Gilmore, DMac. Then you have unsung players like Van Noy, Chung, Jackson, Jones, Harmon, and Guy. Add to that starting quality corner in Jones and the young potential of Wise, Winovich and Bentley and this defense is scary good.

    I, for one, am looking to see how the defense is with Bennett, Hightower, Collins and Gilmore on the field. On paper, they should be a nightmare for teams that don't have an All-Pro at tackle, wideout and TE..
     
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  2. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. However, I wouldn't include Wise on this list. I think that one of the LB's is a DE on 43 sets, and Guy is a DE on 3-4 sets.

    In fact, I like all of the following over Wise: Calhoun, Simon, Pennel, and Butler.
     
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  3. Ring 6

    Ring 6 PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

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    None of those guys even play the same position as Wise.

    When do we play 3-4 or 4-3? 10% of the snaps?

    I don’t understand why people are down in wise. There is just no reason.
     
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  4. dreighver

    dreighver PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Wise isn't particularly great at any one thing and may find himself outside looking in because of that.

    He had a solid rookie year and expectations were that he'd see growth into his 2nd and now 3rd season. He has continued to be solid, but I don't think we've seen the growth that we expected or hoped for.

    He's solid against the run and physically impressive, but that's the extent of what he offers right now.

    Bennett is a superstar lock. Calhoun is more athletic and a superior pass-rusher. Simon is also a stronger pass rusher and is not slouch against the run. Winovich is a better pass-rusher. Even Rivers is a superior pass-rusher, albeit not nearly as strong against the run.

    And then you look inside along the line, and you have guys like Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy who are stronger against the run.

    Essentially, you have one superstar (Bennett), some highly specialized pass-rushers (Calhoun, Rivers, Winovich), some highly-specialized run-stoppers (Shelton, Pennel), and some versatile players (Simon, Guy). I think Wise falls into the latter group, and I think Simon and Guy are superior players to him.

    Just to avoid getting criticism here, while I put Simon and Guy into the versatile group, clearly Guy is more of an interior run-stopper, and Simon is strictly an edge player. That said, they offer greater versatility than the aforementioned specialists.

    Again, he's solid but doesn't do anything particularly well. I think his role is a versatile, primarily run-stopping player who can move along the line. I could see him outside-looking-in, especially if the team sees Cowart as a more promising prospect at this point.
     
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  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, let's count

    You keep: Bennett, Calhoun, Simon, Winovich, Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy. Even if ALL these are locks or almost locks (most of us would disagree on someone), there is likely still one more roster spot for Wise, Cowart or Rivers. I suspect that most would give the nod to Wise. The open question is whether he is good enough to be one of our NINE defensive linemen. I suspect that Belichick will answer in the affirmative. Some might even cut Butler in favor of Coward.

    The BOTTOM LINE is that Wise is an experienced, solid player. That should be enough to earn a spot on the roster. To put in another way, he's played reasonably well (solid) when called upon for the past two years; he is no way a risk as a backup.

    Having inexpensive solid backups available is one of the keys to our Super Bowl successes.

     
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  6. Biffins

    Biffins In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wise and Rivers have both been massive disappointments. As Round 3 and Round 4 picks I wouldn't know if busts is appropriate as you just hope for serviceable starters at that point, and they are still on the roster, but I'd say they are closer to be labelled JAGs.
     
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  7. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hopefully the injury bug stays away.
     
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  8. Angelpats

    Angelpats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    This might be the best secondary we have ever had and our front seemed to have improved as well. Flowers might be gone but I don’t really see a drop with Collins and Bennett.
     
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  9. ashley1992

    ashley1992 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really looking forward to watching this defense play this year. We should be really good!! The biggest weakness on the defense I think is the inside linebacker spot, but hopefully Bentley will be keep improving.
     
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  10. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Wise has contributed but if you are expecting Trey flowers production he's not there. Trey is the exception. Rivers hasn't been able to stay healthy. Hopefully he can get back on the field
     
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  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, he will do fine on the Practice Squad.

     
  12. mosi

    mosi Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I really don't care how they look in the regular season as long as they win and they play like they did in the SB.
     
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  13. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure Pennel is a lock. He was playing late in the game last night and didn’t impress against guys who will either be cut or on the Titans PS.
     
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  14. Froob

    Froob Independent Investigator & pliable af PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Any hope for Derek Rivers this year? Haven’t heard if he was seriously injured last night. Has he had a good off season?
     
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  15. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

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    Flowers is already an afterthought with all these other guys flashing. Flowers has rarely been mentioned on here since the draft.

    This will be the best defense since 2003. I see BB going back to his exotic blitz schemes (which was his calling card back in that day) with the talent and depth at all 3 levels of the defense.
     
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  16. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

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    No update on his injury but I’ve heard he’s had a good camp. Who knows what that means but hopefully he’s okay and makes the team. He had two sacks in the first game in the first half versus the Lions.
     
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  17. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good solid overall thread
     
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  18. Vatahala

    Vatahala 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I was just checking out the Panthers MB to see if Cam would play Thursday but no decision yet.
    Pats should see a lot of Will Grier who the Panthers supposely rated higher than Murray and Jones.
     
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  19. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar In the Starting Line-Up

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    It all comes down to injuries and if this defense can somehow remain relatively healthy, then yes....they are scary good.
     
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  20. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I AM very excited about our defense, but for different reasons. Let's face it, while we all like OUR players, but we also tend to overvalue them as individuals, just like every other fan base. Consider this. The Browns have 3 of their 4 starting DLmen with recent All Pro selections. I think we have one (Bennett), and that was so long ago I can't remember (2014 maybe).

    I was watching a couple of preseason games today and it seems like EVERYONE has multiple stars, and EVERYONE's draft picks "look fantastic". So let remember that its preseason and our team usually starts very slowly.

    I think we should focus more on what we DO have that is exciting, but unproven. We potentially have a decent DL that is made up of good but not great players who are extremely VERSATILE. We have a very deep LB group that has a make up very much like the DL. And THOSE 2 groups are anchored by the deepest AND most versatile secondary in the league. And guess what, we actually have ONE actual elite player in that group.

    So lets get real we have a nice defensive group, but no one outside of NE is drooling over our defensive roster. No DC is game planning to stop ANY of our front 7 like we often have to do. The only great one on one pass rusher we have is 34. :eek: Mr February has never been Mr. September, October, November or December

    I love this defense because it fits the times. I love this defense because it is so versatile up front, and so strong in the secondary. I love this defense BECAUSE it doesn't have any stars you have to game plan for. I love this because it was designed and built to be a week to week game plan group. I love it because opposing OC's will never know where "it" is coming from, or what they will expect to see week to week. I love this defense because it has the depth at all three levels to survive the attrition of an NFL season. I love it because of the guy who will be putting it together. I love this defense because the sum of the parts will be greater than the individual parts.

    The point being that I'm less interested in the individual pieces (aside from the intellectual part about who will make it and who won't) than I am at what they can POTENTIALLY become as a whole. That is VERY exciting for me.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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