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2020 Patriots Season:
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DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
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So far, this pre-season, the youngsters on the defense have shined. This week we get to really see the Vets like Bennett and Gilmore and how they are gelling.

When it comes to just name recognition, the defense is ridiculous. Hightower, Collins, Bennett, Gilmore, DMac. Then you have unsung players like Van Noy, Chung, Jackson, Jones, Harmon, and Guy. Add to that starting quality corner in Jones and the young potential of Wise, Winovich and Bentley and this defense is scary good.

I, for one, am looking to see how the defense is with Bennett, Hightower, Collins and Gilmore on the field. On paper, they should be a nightmare for teams that don't have an All-Pro at tackle, wideout and TE..
 

mgteich

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I agree. However, I wouldn't include Wise on this list. I think that one of the LB's is a DE on 43 sets, and Guy is a DE on 3-4 sets.

In fact, I like all of the following over Wise: Calhoun, Simon, Pennel, and Butler.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
I agree. However, I wouldn't include Wise on this list. I think that one of the LB's is a DE on 43 sets, and Guy is a DE on 3-4 sets.

In fact, I like all of the following over Wise: Calhoun, Simon, Pennel, and Butler.
None of those guys even play the same position as Wise.

When do we play 3-4 or 4-3? 10% of the snaps?

I don’t understand why people are down in wise. There is just no reason.
 

dreighver

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None of those guys even play the same position as Wise.

When do we play 3-4 or 4-3? 10% of the snaps?

I don’t understand why people are down in wise. There is just no reason.

I think Wise isn't particularly great at any one thing and may find himself outside looking in because of that.

He had a solid rookie year and expectations were that he'd see growth into his 2nd and now 3rd season. He has continued to be solid, but I don't think we've seen the growth that we expected or hoped for.

He's solid against the run and physically impressive, but that's the extent of what he offers right now.

Bennett is a superstar lock. Calhoun is more athletic and a superior pass-rusher. Simon is also a stronger pass rusher and is not slouch against the run. Winovich is a better pass-rusher. Even Rivers is a superior pass-rusher, albeit not nearly as strong against the run.

And then you look inside along the line, and you have guys like Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy who are stronger against the run.

Essentially, you have one superstar (Bennett), some highly specialized pass-rushers (Calhoun, Rivers, Winovich), some highly-specialized run-stoppers (Shelton, Pennel), and some versatile players (Simon, Guy). I think Wise falls into the latter group, and I think Simon and Guy are superior players to him.

Just to avoid getting criticism here, while I put Simon and Guy into the versatile group, clearly Guy is more of an interior run-stopper, and Simon is strictly an edge player. That said, they offer greater versatility than the aforementioned specialists.

Again, he's solid but doesn't do anything particularly well. I think his role is a versatile, primarily run-stopping player who can move along the line. I could see him outside-looking-in, especially if the team sees Cowart as a more promising prospect at this point.
 

mgteich

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OK, let's count

You keep: Bennett, Calhoun, Simon, Winovich, Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy. Even if ALL these are locks or almost locks (most of us would disagree on someone), there is likely still one more roster spot for Wise, Cowart or Rivers. I suspect that most would give the nod to Wise. The open question is whether he is good enough to be one of our NINE defensive linemen. I suspect that Belichick will answer in the affirmative. Some might even cut Butler in favor of Coward.

The BOTTOM LINE is that Wise is an experienced, solid player. That should be enough to earn a spot on the roster. To put in another way, he's played reasonably well (solid) when called upon for the past two years; he is no way a risk as a backup.

Having inexpensive solid backups available is one of the keys to our Super Bowl successes.

I think Wise isn't particularly great at any one thing and may find himself outside looking in because of that.

He had a solid rookie year and expectations were that he'd see growth into his 2nd and now 3rd season. He has continued to be solid, but I don't think we've seen the growth that we expected or hoped for.

He's solid against the run and physically impressive, but that's the extent of what he offers right now.

Bennett is a superstar lock. Calhoun is more athletic and a superior pass-rusher. Simon is also a stronger pass rusher and is not slouch against the run. Winovich is a better pass-rusher. Even Rivers is a superior pass-rusher, albeit not nearly as strong against the run.

And then you look inside along the line, and you have guys like Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy who are stronger against the run.

Essentially, you have one superstar (Bennett), some highly specialized pass-rushers (Calhoun, Rivers, Winovich), some highly-specialized run-stoppers (Shelton, Pennel), and some versatile players (Simon, Guy). I think Wise falls into the latter group, and I think Simon and Guy are superior players to him.

Just to avoid getting criticism here, while I put Simon and Guy into the versatile group, clearly Guy is more of an interior run-stopper, and Simon is strictly an edge player. That said, they offer greater versatility than the aforementioned specialists.

Again, he's solid but doesn't do anything particularly well. I think his role is a versatile, primarily run-stopping player who can move along the line. I could see him outside-looking-in, especially if the team sees Cowart as a more promising prospect at this point.
 

Biffins

In the Starting Line-Up
Wise and Rivers have both been massive disappointments. As Round 3 and Round 4 picks I wouldn't know if busts is appropriate as you just hope for serviceable starters at that point, and they are still on the roster, but I'd say they are closer to be labelled JAGs.
 

Angelpats

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
This might be the best secondary we have ever had and our front seemed to have improved as well. Flowers might be gone but I don’t really see a drop with Collins and Bennett.
 

MrBigglesWorth

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Wise and Rivers have both been massive disappointments. As Round 3 and Round 4 picks I wouldn't know if busts is appropriate as you just hope for serviceable starters at that point, and they are still on the roster, but I'd say they are closer to be labelled JAGs.
Wise has contributed but if you are expecting Trey flowers production he's not there. Trey is the exception. Rivers hasn't been able to stay healthy. Hopefully he can get back on the field
 

mgteich

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Yes, he will do fine on the Practice Squad.

Wise has contributed but if you are expecting Trey flowers production he's not there. Trey is the exception. Rivers hasn't been able to stay healthy. Hopefully he can get back on the field
 

mosi

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I really don't care how they look in the regular season as long as they win and they play like they did in the SB.
 

The Brandon Five

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OK, let's count

You keep: Bennett, Calhoun, Simon, Winovich, Butler, Shelton, Pennel and Guy. Even if ALL these are locks or almost locks (most of us would disagree on someone), there is likely still one more roster spot for Wise, Cowart or Rivers. I suspect that most would give the nod to Wise. The open question is whether he is good enough to be one of our NINE defensive linemen. I suspect that Belichick will answer in the affirmative. Some might even cut Butler in favor of Coward.

The BOTTOM LINE is that Wise is an experienced, solid player. That should be enough to earn a spot on the roster. To put in another way, he's played reasonably well (solid) when called upon for the past two years; he is no way a risk as a backup.

Having inexpensive solid backups available is one of the keys to our Super Bowl successes.
Not sure Pennel is a lock. He was playing late in the game last night and didn’t impress against guys who will either be cut or on the Titans PS.
 

Froob

Independent Investigator & pliable af
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Any hope for Derek Rivers this year? Haven’t heard if he was seriously injured last night. Has he had a good off season?
 

TheRainMaker

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This might be the best secondary we have ever had and our front seemed to have improved as well. Flowers might be gone but I don’t really see a drop with Collins and Bennett.
Flowers is already an afterthought with all these other guys flashing. Flowers has rarely been mentioned on here since the draft.

This will be the best defense since 2003. I see BB going back to his exotic blitz schemes (which was his calling card back in that day) with the talent and depth at all 3 levels of the defense.
 

TheRainMaker

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Any hope for Derek Rivers this year? Haven’t heard if he was seriously injured last night. Has he had a good off season?
No update on his injury but I’ve heard he’s had a good camp. Who knows what that means but hopefully he’s okay and makes the team. He had two sacks in the first game in the first half versus the Lions.
 

Vatahala

In the Starting Line-Up
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I was just checking out the Panthers MB to see if Cam would play Thursday but no decision yet.
Pats should see a lot of Will Grier who the Panthers supposely rated higher than Murray and Jones.
 

patfanken

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I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and I AM very excited about our defense, but for different reasons. Let's face it, while we all like OUR players, but we also tend to overvalue them as individuals, just like every other fan base. Consider this. The Browns have 3 of their 4 starting DLmen with recent All Pro selections. I think we have one (Bennett), and that was so long ago I can't remember (2014 maybe).

I was watching a couple of preseason games today and it seems like EVERYONE has multiple stars, and EVERYONE's draft picks "look fantastic". So let remember that its preseason and our team usually starts very slowly.

I think we should focus more on what we DO have that is exciting, but unproven. We potentially have a decent DL that is made up of good but not great players who are extremely VERSATILE. We have a very deep LB group that has a make up very much like the DL. And THOSE 2 groups are anchored by the deepest AND most versatile secondary in the league. And guess what, we actually have ONE actual elite player in that group.

So lets get real we have a nice defensive group, but no one outside of NE is drooling over our defensive roster. No DC is game planning to stop ANY of our front 7 like we often have to do. The only great one on one pass rusher we have is 34. :eek: Mr February has never been Mr. September, October, November or December

I love this defense because it fits the times. I love this defense because it is so versatile up front, and so strong in the secondary. I love this defense BECAUSE it doesn't have any stars you have to game plan for. I love this because it was designed and built to be a week to week game plan group. I love it because opposing OC's will never know where "it" is coming from, or what they will expect to see week to week. I love this defense because it has the depth at all three levels to survive the attrition of an NFL season. I love it because of the guy who will be putting it together. I love this defense because the sum of the parts will be greater than the individual parts.

The point being that I'm less interested in the individual pieces (aside from the intellectual part about who will make it and who won't) than I am at what they can POTENTIALLY become as a whole. That is VERY exciting for me.
 
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