2020 Patriots Season:
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slam

In the Starting Line-Up
By looking up and totaling the 2018 salary cap numbers for each member of the 2014 Super Bowl winning roster, I calculated that the 37 players still drawing NFL paychecks of some sort have salary cap hits totaling $208,446,106, which is 117.6% of the $177,000,000 salary cap.

Player 2018 Cap Hit (Sportrac)
Jimmy Garoppolo $37,000,000
Tom Brady* $22,000,000
Chandler Jones $15,500,000
Jamie Collins $12,150,000
Devin McCourty $11,935,000
Rob Gronkowski*+ $11,781,250
Logan Ryan $11,166,666
Nate Solder $10,000,000
Dont'a Hightower $8,523,435
Danny Amendola $6,000,000
Malcolm Butler $6,000,000
Marcus Cannon $5,768,750
Josh Kline $5,750,000
Stephen Gostkowski* $5,000,000
Patrick Chung $3,800,000
Duron Harmon $3,750,000
Julian Edelman $3,303,921
Tavon Wilson $2,893,750
James White $2,437,500
Cameron Fleming $2,375,000
Brandon LaFell $2,312,500
Matt Slater* $2,025,000
Nate Ebner $2,025,000
LeGarrette Blount $2,000,000
Ryan Allen $2,000,000
Michael Hoomanawanui $1,933,334
James Develin $1,675,000
Shane Vereen $1,050,000
Dominique Easley $850,000
Brandon Bolden $790,000
Jordan Devey $720,000
Tim Wright $705,000
Zach Moore $705,000
Chris Jones $630,000
Deontae Skinner $630,000
Sealver Siliga $630,000
Stevan Ridley $630,000
Aaron Dobson
Akeem Ayers
Alan Branch
Alfonzo Dennard
Brandon Browner
Brian Tyms
Bryan Stork
Casey Walker
Chris Barker
Chris White
Dan Connolly
Danny Aiken
Darius Fleming
Darrelle Revis*+
Don Jones
Ja'Gared Davis
Jerod Mayo
Joe Vellano
Jonas Gray
Jonathan Casillas
Josh Boyce
Kenbrell Thompkins
Kyle Arrington
Michael Buchanan
Rob Ninkovich
Ryan Wendell
Sebastian Vollmer
Steve Maneri
Vince Wilfork

$208,446,106 2018 Total Cap Hit
$177,200,000 2018 Cap Space
117.6% Percent Used

Some of the guys near the end are undoubtedly dead money and not active.

But it puts into perspective why we couldn't keep everyone.

I think Salary Cap Hit is the most appropriate number on the Sportrac tables to look at, but I could be wrong.
 

chasa

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Adding Jimmy to the list is a bit misleading, IMO. Had we kept Jimmy...we wouldn't have Brady's salary on the list...a 15M difference.

Just nit picking here for fun :).

right, brady would have signed a deal with the 49'ers or the browns for something like 50 mil a year, and the number would be even higher.

just nitpicking your nitpick for fun.
 

Ring 6

PatsFans.com Wall of Fame Member
By looking up and totaling the 2018 salary cap numbers for each member of the 2014 Super Bowl winning roster, I calculated that the 37 players still drawing NFL paychecks of some sort have salary cap hits totaling $208,446,106, which is 117.6% of the $177,000,000 salary cap.

Player 2018 Cap Hit (Sportrac)
Jimmy Garoppolo $37,000,000
Tom Brady* $22,000,000
Chandler Jones $15,500,000
Jamie Collins $12,150,000
Devin McCourty $11,935,000
Rob Gronkowski*+ $11,781,250
Logan Ryan $11,166,666
Nate Solder $10,000,000
Dont'a Hightower $8,523,435
Danny Amendola $6,000,000
Malcolm Butler $6,000,000
Marcus Cannon $5,768,750
Josh Kline $5,750,000
Stephen Gostkowski* $5,000,000
Patrick Chung $3,800,000
Duron Harmon $3,750,000
Julian Edelman $3,303,921
Tavon Wilson $2,893,750
James White $2,437,500
Cameron Fleming $2,375,000
Brandon LaFell $2,312,500
Matt Slater* $2,025,000
Nate Ebner $2,025,000
LeGarrette Blount $2,000,000
Ryan Allen $2,000,000
Michael Hoomanawanui $1,933,334
James Develin $1,675,000
Shane Vereen $1,050,000
Dominique Easley $850,000
Brandon Bolden $790,000
Jordan Devey $720,000
Tim Wright $705,000
Zach Moore $705,000
Chris Jones $630,000
Deontae Skinner $630,000
Sealver Siliga $630,000
Stevan Ridley $630,000
Aaron Dobson
Akeem Ayers
Alan Branch
Alfonzo Dennard
Brandon Browner
Brian Tyms
Bryan Stork
Casey Walker
Chris Barker
Chris White
Dan Connolly
Danny Aiken
Darius Fleming
Darrelle Revis*+
Don Jones
Ja'Gared Davis
Jerod Mayo
Joe Vellano
Jonas Gray
Jonathan Casillas
Josh Boyce
Kenbrell Thompkins
Kyle Arrington
Michael Buchanan
Rob Ninkovich
Ryan Wendell
Sebastian Vollmer
Steve Maneri
Vince Wilfork

$208,446,106 2018 Total Cap Hit
$177,200,000 2018 Cap Space
117.6% Percent Used

Some of the guys near the end are undoubtedly dead money and not active.

But it puts into perspective why we couldn't keep everyone.

I think Salary Cap Hit is the most appropriate number on the Sportrac tables to look at, but I could be wrong.
This is a great example of why great teams can’t stay together. This is exactly what happened to the 01-04 squad. As players became free agents their prices went way up. When you are near the cap you can’t afford to keep your players who play well especially when you have few taking up big boys that you can dump.
 

Kenneth Sims

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Actually, it shows just the opposite. Say Jimmy Garoppolo had been traded for multiple picks including a 1st rounder in the 2017 offseason as he should and could have been, the 2014 Patriots would be safely tucked under the 2018 cap at $171.5 million. You throw in 4 solid draft classes (the Garappolo picks make up for the stolen 2016 1st) still on rookie contracts, and you would have a better team than the current one and be in no worse cap condition than they are now.

This exercise which I thank the OP for doing shows how unnecessary the annual roster churn the Patriots do is and renders a lie all the misinformed chatter of how the Patriots could not have kept C. Jones and J. Collins because of the cap.

Of course, Chandler Jones would still be dropped in coverage a third of the time and Jamie Collins would still be used covering backs and TEs man to man rather than rushing from the other end because Patriot defensive coaches prefer to have versatile players who can half-a—d do many things rather than less versatile players who can excel at something.
 

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Actually, it shows just the opposite. Say Jimmy Garoppolo had been traded for multiple picks including a 1st rounder in the 2017 offseason as he should and could have been, the 2014 Patriots would be safely tucked under the 2018 cap at $171.5 million. You throw in 4 solid draft classes (the Garappolo picks make up for the stolen 2016 1st) still on rookie contracts, and you would have a better team than the current one and be in no worse cap condition than they are now.

This exercise which I thank the OP for doing shows how unnecessary the annual roster churn the Patriots do is and renders a lie all the misinformed chatter of how the Patriots could not have kept C. Jones and J. Collins because of the cap.

Of course, Chandler Jones would still be dropped in coverage a third of the time and Jamie Collins would still be used covering backs and TEs man to man rather than rushing from the other end because Patriot defensive coaches prefer to have versatile players who can half-a—d do many things rather than less versatile players who can excel at something.

Assuming Jimmy Garoppolo can be traded for multiple picks is like saying "If I can win a Power Ball, my problems will all go away". Our 2017 1st was traded for one year production from a elite WR and a 1st round OL man who was IRed. Our draft classes were not bad. They just got injured a lot. Garcia, Rivers and Wynn never saw the field.
 

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I think comparing the 2014 Seahawks and the current Seahawks will be much more telling. They fell apart quite quickly but the Patriots remain competitive. The Seahawks might be even worse after this season. But the Patriots have a chance to reload on D with one 1st, two 2nd and three 3rd.
 

luuked

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Actually, it shows just the opposite. Say Jimmy Garoppolo had been traded for multiple picks including a 1st rounder in the 2017 offseason as he should and could have been, the 2014 Patriots would be safely tucked under the 2018 cap at $171.5 million.

Here we go again with posters making things up just to fit a narrative. Nobody knows that. Claim that in your opinion he should have returned more all you want but stop making it some kind of fact that there were offers with multiple picks. Because nobody except the Patriots knows for certain.

This exercise which I thank the OP for doing shows how unnecessary the annual roster churn the Patriots do is and renders a lie all the misinformed chatter of how the Patriots could not have kept C. Jones and J. Collins because of the cap.

The roster churn is not only necessary but the only way you can stay competitive for so long without windows of "rebuilding".


Collins would have been traded even if we had 100m of cap space. He was simply not a cultural fit and has done nothing for Cleveland since signing his big contract. As many current and previous players have said you need to be a fan of football to be here. He was not.

Chandler Jones was a great player to have on a rookie contract and overpaid in our defense on an open market contract. Just because you have cap space available it doesn't automatically mean you need to start overpaying players when you don't think they are worth the market rate.

Of course, Chandler Jones would still be dropped in coverage a third of the time and Jamie Collins would still be used covering backs and TEs man to man rather than rushing from the other end because Patriot defensive coaches prefer to have versatile players who can half-a—d do many things rather than less versatile players who can excel at something.

I don't see your point. Versatility and dependability are more important than ability in a strategic team game like football. If you don't agree with that I think you have been watching the wrong team for about 17 years.

You do realize why our defense in e.g. 2016 was so good (without Jones and Collins). It was because the players were so versatile that you could e.g. defend the run from a nickel base. When you do that you can also protect the pass with the very same personnel instead of constantly subbing (or getting screwed by no huddle-based mismatches). There was a reason the defense didn't skip a beat after those two players were send away.

Hell this is what makes this team so fun and exciting to watch. I would get bored watching teams like Denver or Seattle running the very same schemes game after game, relying on talent alone.
 
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edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Hell this is what makes this team so fun and exciting to watch. I would get bored watching teams like Denver or Seattle running the very same schemes game after game, relying on talent alone.

Getting some major production from castoffs and near-retirement veterans is also a crucial part of the Patriots roster building if not the most important part. Revis\Browner\Moss\Waters\ Seau. It almost worked with Harris last year. This year is Gordon on the O and I am waiting on some hot and cheap fix the D too.

If NFL teams are like investment firm, the Patriots just love doing short term investments and penny stock vs others love making expensive long term investments.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
If NFL teams are like investment firm, the Patriots just love doing short term investments and penny stock vs others love making expensive long term investments.
True, but just like penny stocks, they are sometimes left with nothing at all, with a total loss of investment. There’s probably less margin for error with a lot of these guys. Belichick seems to be better than most at masking weaknesses and putting players in situations that take advantage of their strengths, though, so we’re all thankful for that aspect.
 

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
True, but just like penny stocks, they are sometimes left with nothing at all, with a total loss of investment. There’s probably less margin for error with a lot of these guys. Belichick seems to be better than most at masking weaknesses and putting players in situations that take advantage of their strengths, though, so we’re all thankful for that aspect.

I agree with you on the latter part. But you misunderstood my analogy on the penny stock. What I meant was low risk high reward. If you go broke on penny stock, you have a gambling problem. With that said, your margin for error should be high because you pay low and buy often instead of doing small quantity of large transactions.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I agree with you on the latter part. But you misunderstood my analogy on the penny stock. What I meant was low risk high reward. If you go broke on penny stock, you have a gambling problem. With that said, your margin for error should be high because you pay low and buy often instead of doing small quantity of large transactions.
Sure, but the penny stocks can often end up totally worthless, so that was my main point. You can get lucky from time to time, I suppose.

At any rate, Belichick builds a strong team, and I think that you’re right that a fair portion of that can be attributed to reclamation projects and value picks. We’ve seen plenty that other well respected organizations have given up on, over the years.
 

DarrylS

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The Patriots have an economic system in place and keeping Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins would defy that system, particularly as both were having issues with their assignments and essentially underperforming for the NEP. BB does not have a lot of tolerance for guys who consistently defy their coaching and game responsibilities.. then Jones calling the police because he was hallucinating...

Jones looks all world, Collins less so..

Then there is Malcolm, who was offered a comparable contract by the NEP, but his agent told him he was worth more.. so he waited and moved on to have a substandard (horrendous) start in Tennessee...
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Sure, but the penny stocks can often end up totally worthless, so that was my main point. You can get lucky from time to time, I suppose.

At any rate, Belichick builds a strong team, and I think that you’re right that a fair portion of that can be attributed to reclamation projects and value picks. We’ve seen plenty that other well respected organizations have given up on, over the years.

The ROI on the "penny stock" analogy might be easiest to calculate with UDFAs (since there wasn't any initial draft-pick value involved to muddy the numbers). Still a rough number, but you could take the total salary cost of all the UDFAs who made the 53-man and PS over the course of a specific period of time, and then subtract that from a hypothetical value based on how much the successful UDFAs from that same time period ended up with on their second contracts (representing their market value/potential cost of acquisition or retention.

For example, you'd need to add up the total cap cost of guys like Webb, David Jones, Jon Jones, Trent Harris, JC Jackson, etc. - and then subtract that from the contract values of guys like Malcom Butler and David Andrews. Not the same "time bracket", I know. Just illustrating the concept with names off the top of my head.

Th same could be applied to free agents, I suppose, although it figuring out the constraints to make the comparisons fair would be more complicated.
 

Maho Hiyajo

Practice Squad Player
Of course, Chandler Jones would still be dropped in coverage a third of the time and Jamie Collins would still be used covering backs and TEs man to man rather than rushing from the other end because Patriot defensive coaches prefer to have versatile players who can half-a—d do many things rather than less versatile players who can excel at something.

My thoughts exactly. You perhaps can't justify paying CJ $15M a year because of the assignments he'd have to take in NE compared to Arizona. You can therefore find someone else to offset a loss like that.

There is an argument to be made that versatility earns a player more money, but youthful pass rushers will always be paid for being pass rushers and BB was fully aware of it
 

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Sure, but the penny stocks can often end up totally worthless, so that was my main point. You can get lucky from time to time, I suppose.

At any rate, Belichick builds a strong team, and I think that you’re right that a fair portion of that can be attributed to reclamation projects and value picks. We’ve seen plenty that other well respected organizations have given up on, over the years.

You mean as worthless as Albert Haynesworth and Ochocinco? For every Albert H, there is a Revis.
 

supafly

Suddenly sad and Brady-less
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You mean as worthless as Albert Haynesworth and Ochocinco? For every Albert H, there is a Revis.
Revis came with a 16m dollar a year AAV on a 2/32 deal, so I think he was more like buying shares of Amazon. ;) We pretty much knew that we were getting a blue chip player with that acquisition, and weren’t afraid to pay handsomely for it.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Revis came with a 16m dollar a year AAV on a 2/32 deal, so I think he was more like buying shares of Amazon. ;) We pretty much knew that we were getting a blue chip player with that acquisition, and weren’t afraid to pay handsomely for it.

Good analogy. Something similar may apply to the one-year rental of Cooks.
 

edkk323

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
The ROI on the "penny stock" analogy might be easiest to calculate with UDFAs (since there wasn't any initial draft-pick value involved to muddy the numbers). Still a rough number, but you could take the total salary cost of all the UDFAs who made the 53-man and PS over the course of a specific period of time, and then subtract that from a hypothetical value based on how much the successful UDFAs from that same time period ended up with on their second contracts (representing their market value/potential cost of acquisition or retention.

For example, you'd need to add up the total cap cost of guys like Webb, David Jones, Jon Jones, Trent Harris, JC Jackson, etc. - and then subtract that from the contract values of guys like Malcom Butler and David Andrews. Not the same "time bracket", I know. Just illustrating the concept with names off the top of my head.

Th same could be applied to free agents, I suppose, although it figuring out the constraints to make the comparisons fair would be more complicated.

It is very difficult to calculate a comparable ROI value for free agents.
1. our acquisition cost is lower. Free agents sign discounted contracts with NEP.
2. It is hard to sign value on the production. We paid around 1.5 million for one year out of Cooks'good year and the Ram is pay 8m this year and 50m over the next three.
3.NEP probably view long term contract more as liability than asset.

Penny stock is not a accurate analogy. It is more like:
1."Want to piss off your ex? get in bed with me at a discounted cost"
2."You enjoying getting in bed with me? Take a deep discount."
3."You are so hot. OK. I will play fair"
4. "Prove you are desirable to others by sleeping with me at a discounted cost"
5. "I got the best out of you, cya"
6."Oh, the Bills just done prepping a girl I need. Nice"
 
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