Road to TC : Picks & Consequences

[Zuma]

Yeah at 6'1 he looks up to 6'4 Joejuan and 6'4 Browner as he waves. And wonders why he has only had success as a slot corner.

Shawn Wade has been a very good slot corner in college...bordering on great. Tall CB's are a thing of the past.

 

[long distance]

One thing about Strong, he's reported to be very strong in blitz pickup, and JJ couldn't handle a HS blitz (which is probably why he hasn't managed to get on to the field).

Just went to watch some full games of Strong and K.Harris yesterday for exactly this reason . and i was not impressed.
Im afraid both have a lot of work to do both in PP and route-running, receiving.
Then again it took White 2 years to grow into reliable NE RB.

It is true that Strong is physically significantly better equipped to do the job than JJ so hopefully he can muster all the nuances.
Sony was already well established as PP coming out so he was plug & play. I dont see Strong as plug & play other than special situations.
I hope White will be ok and can help Mac for at least one more year possibly two.
Strong can be a backup/gadget/change of pace option in the meantime (not unlike JJ first yr) . hopefully carving his role on ST as well.

 

[rochrist]

Just went to watch some full games of Strong and K.Harris yesterday for exactly this reason . and i was not impressed.
Im afraid both have a lot of work to do both in PP and route-running, receiving.
Then again it took White 2 years to grow into reliable NE RB.

It is true that Strong is physically significantly better equipped to do the job than JJ so hopefully he can muster all the nuances.
Sony was already well established as PP coming out so he was plug & play. I dont see Strong as plug & play other than special situations.
I hope White will be ok and can help Mac for at least one more year possibly two.
Strong can be a backup/gadget/change of pace option in the meantime (not unlike JJ first yr) . hopefully carving his role on ST as well.

Harris doesn't particularly impress me, but Strong is very fast with a nice change of direction. All he needs is the slightest crease.

 

[Kasmir]

Shawn Wade has been a very good slot corner in college...bordering on great. Tall CB's are a thing of the past.

Look, I don't want to be argued into being a defender of JoeJuan Williams. He's not been very impressive, and I wouldn't be bothered if BB cuts him. Just pointing out that he has unique attributes on the team that might keep him on the team given the weak group of outside corners we have.

And Shawn Williams hasn't been impressive as an outside corner -- which doesn't he can become so, but as a slot corner only he may not make this team given the competition.

 

[Zuma]

Look, I don't want to be argued into being a defender of JoeJuan Williams. He's not been very impressive, and I wouldn't be bothered if BB cuts him. Just pointing out that he has unique attributes on the team that might keep him on the team given the weak group of outside corners we have.

And Shawn Williams hasn't been impressive as an outside corner -- which doesn't he can become so, but as a slot corner only he may not make this team given the competition.

This is a good argument and I am happy you mentioned JoeJuan. The guy has all the physical attributes to cover TE's and possibly RB's...this is fact. I have to believe some rooks are so intimidated by BB that they lose it. Like Cyrus and Richards.

EDIT: and Shawn Wade should never play on the outside...but he is a very good slot CB.

 

[Kasmir]

Just went to watch some full games of Strong and K.Harris yesterday for exactly this reason . and i was not impressed.
Im afraid both have a lot of work to do both in PP and route-running, receiving.
Then again it took White 2 years to grow into reliable NE RB.

It is true that Strong is physically significantly better equipped to do the job than JJ so hopefully he can muster all the nuances.
Sony was already well established as PP coming out so he was plug & play. I dont see Strong as plug & play other than special situations.
I hope White will be ok and can help Mac for at least one more year possibly two.
Strong can be a backup/gadget/change of pace option in the meantime (not unlike JJ first yr) . hopefully carving his role on ST as well.

He runs like a scat back but is 205 to 207 lbs. And he ran a 4.39s 40 vs JJ's 4.61s. His Baylor tape is impressive. If he can do anything like that in the NFL, he will get lots of snaps one way or another.

 

[long distance]

@ EDGE

Forgot to add this in last post.

2 players that are listed under LB group could be seen by the team as edge options atm.

Tavai at times replaced KVN on the line (and maybe looked less bad than at ILB) so maybe they will be trying him more closer to the line this offseason. Another guy who could take on edge duties in similar capacity (dont necessarily mean quality) to Flowers is Jennings.

So in case they dont upgrade edge, Jennings situation in particular will be interesting to monitor.

 

[long distance]

He runs like a scat back but is 205 to 207 lbs. And he ran a 4.39s 40 vs JJ's 4.61s. His Baylor tape is impressive. If he can do anything like that in the NFL, he will get lots of snaps one way or another.

We were discussing pass protection. RBs who are liabilities in PP/blitz pickups are not seeing much of the field in NFL and that goes double for NE..

 

[holyredeemer]

Initial takeaways:

Stidham and Harry are gone at some point before or during training camp. They will likely try and wait and see if they can get a late pick for Stidham. Think they would prefer to have Harry gone sooner - to avoid him being a distraction. Agholor should be feeling nervous. If Thornton has a good camp, they will be looking to save some money, particularly if Wilkerson or Nixon looks like they've also taken a jump.

There are lots of intriguing options down the OL depth chart for what should be an interesting camp battle.

There is a real opportunity for Perkins, Uche and dare I say it Jennings to step up and take the OLB spot across from Judon. Although most realistic scenario is they bring in a Trey Flowers type.

Joejuan Williams is also a certain cut. With two incoming rookies, the depth chart feels full there and there might even be a roster battle for Shaun Wade . He'll be a guy to watch - I wouldn't rule out him running with the 1sts come early training camp or a cut candidate. Feels like he has a wide range of outcomes.

With James White still recovering, there is an opportunity for Pierre Strong or JJ Taylor to grasp the 3rd down back role.

Still feels like the DT spot is a little light and could use a real established nose tackle to stop the run. Godchaux and Guy seem to be better as a 3-4 ends and just a little light as a true nose. I doubt Carl Davis is the answer.

I'm looking forward to seeing these young linebackers - McGrone, Wilson, Uche even Tavai and Jennings - show up and compete and show we don't need to bring back a Hightower/Collins/Van Noy type veteran. Hope they get a chance.

Safety feels the strength of the team. McCourty, Dugger, Philips, Peppers must be competing for the best safety room in the league. I kind of like Josh Bledsoe too but it's going to be tough for him to sniff the field without injuries.

I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if Williams was cut, traded, or made the 53. There’s not another corner on the roster with his size. He has his moments both positive and negative.

 

[holyredeemer]

Dude - You know Patten died last September, Right?

It’s an epidemic apparently.

 

[DaBruinz]

(1) I was referencing the “no way ____ makes this team” from patsfans lore

(2) people on this forum are obsessed with death : the random memorandums, etc…

(3) our time is short, and I’m not really worried about the eventuality

Umm.. It's not an obsession. I thought your post I responded to was tactless. Regardless of what you claim you were referring to.

 

[DaBruinz]

Joejuan Williams is also a certain cut. With two incoming rookies, the depth chart feels full there and there might even be a roster battle for Shaun Wade . He'll be a guy to watch - I wouldn't rule out him running with the 1sts come early training camp or a cut candidate. Feels like he has a wide range of outcomes.

People have been saying that Williams is an "almost certain cut" since he got here.

The Problem with that thinking is that he's actually not that bad of a Outside the numbers CB.



Last year was the most that Williams was used on Defense. Pro-Football-Reference.com has Williams taking 254 defensive snaps. PFF had Williams taking 285 Defensive snaps (114 running plays/181 passing plays). If we go with the 181 passing plays, then Williams was targeted 9.9% of the time.

Myles Bryant was the worst in terms of giving up completions for Patriots DBs. He gave up 30 on 42 attempts (71.4%) while seeing 406 snaps (According to PFR). PFF has Bryant at 327 passing snaps and 102 running play snaps for 429. Using the 327, wee see that Bryant was targeted 12.8% of the time.

I don't know if Williams is going to be cut or not. He seems to fall into the JAG category, but does bring some height which could be useful against TEs. I think that the additions of Peppers, Marcus Jones, and Jack Jones with the return of Jon Jones all but guarantee that Bryant is gone. Two players who will be fighting for spots will be Bledsoe and Schooler. Cody Davis may have led the team in STs Tackles, but he's going to get pushed by Marcus Jones, Jack Jones, Bledsoe and Schooler for some of the special teams play.

 

[long distance]

@ D BACK

Pats usually carry around 16 DBs to TC, 9-11 CBs - so there is still room to add a corner or two esp with Jon Jones coming back from injury and Marcus Jones not ready at least until TC (where he might start on NFI list - hopefully not).

They double dipped at CB in the Draft and added 2 vets in FA but i still expected they might bring more competition through UDFA since the position was deep enough in talent and they had so much success with it. So atm thats a bit disappointing. The problem is there are not many home candidates for PS. Mills and both new Joneses are virtual locks, Jonathan will either be a starter or he will be gone, and i doubt any of Butler, JoJu, Wade, Mitchell will stick around as practice squad players. So the only realistic home PS option is Bryant if we count him as CB.

On the other hand hopefully it means positive news about Jon & that they have more trust in Butler, Wade being competitive for starting job than i am. There are still plenty of good corners out there in FA but atm i dont think adding another accomplished vet makes sense after Drafting two that will make the roster (if healthy).

S position is almost set in stone barring injuries - 4 clear starters/rotational players w Bledsoe hopefully stepping up as legit FS backup to DMC.
This is another position with plenty of good vets left in FA but unless there is significant injury i doubt they will look there.
They did bring in a couple of UDFAs, Schooler and Tippett (invite) to maybe compete for PS.

CB competition will be most interesting/crucial position to monitor in TC that hopefully produces good enough starting group and decent depth.
Cant remember the last time Pats went to TC with so many ? at the position (at least to the outside view) - basically no clear starters (unless you count Mills)

 

[p8ryts]

Look, I don't want to be argued into being a defender of JoeJuan Williams. He's not been very impressive, and I wouldn't be bothered if BB cuts him. Just pointing out that he has unique attributes on the team that might keep him on the team given the weak group of outside corners we have.

And Shawn Williams hasn't been impressive as an outside corner -- which doesn't he can become so, but as a slot corner only he may not make this team given the competition.

Joejuan has a major weakness. He looks into the backfield and is susceptible to the double move and gets beat. Unfortunately, when he gets beat its 6 point. Otherwise, I thought he covers well, tackles well. He just can't stop cheating and can't be trusted. I thought he might get moved to safety so the game was in front of him but that didn't happen. Maybe he is just worse than I thought.

 

[long distance]

Although unlikely some still felt KVN reunion might be coming.
Moving on from boogymen entirely and give as much space as possible to young LB group at least till the end of TC is the right move for the future. Good luck to prince KVN wherever he may land - and finding the step he was missing last 2 seasons..

 

[long distance]

Mayo echoing this sentiment even more bluntly:




They can revisit the situation at the end of August if necessary.

 

[venecol]

Another dead weight cut. Hopefully Tavai is next (though he's Fat Matt's binky so who knows). That's an uninspiring LB corps.

 

[Joker]

Another dead weight cut. Hopefully Tavai is next (though he's Fat Matt's binky so who knows). That's an uninspiring LB corps.

yup...pretty impressive group..the Buffalo offense is quaking with fear and seeing suicide prevention specialists while the Miami WR corps is considering retiring altogether from the NFL in lieu of the fact that Tua will never get them the ball due to our withering LB attack...

 

[long distance]

Another dead weight cut. Hopefully Tavai is next (though he's Fat Matt's binky so who knows). That's an uninspiring LB corps.

Not really. Hall stepped up well in 2019 and was the only decent replacement for Bentley in thumper role. They might put him on some reserve list. Much better option than “who knows Tavai“.

 

[venecol]

LB will be very competitive in TC as it is - returning so many young injured players. The competition without clear starters apart from Bentley should sort things out and bring some quality to the top. Another reason for passing on Draft is that all 3 boogymen are still available. As much as i oike them i wouldn't like them back to give youngster every opportunity to step up. In the end - if need be - they can prob still bring back KVN in some capacity.

Van Noy signed w/ Chargers.