Reiss: The Patriots can still be an Elite team

[Michigan Dave]

It is wide open right now. We will learn a lot on Sunday, because I think Baltimore is right up there. The D obviously has issues, but they are young. If they improve a bit and we get some breaks our way, I don't think it is a stretch to say we will be in the race.

 

[mgteich]

In 2001, we had the worst talent to ever win a Super Bowl. That was an awesome year! Comparing us to then merely says that we have a very long way to go to be a top team in the league.

The Cinderella 2001 NEP had the 25th ranked defense in that regular season...how quickly they forget...

 

[MustaphaM0nd]

Who are the elite teams in the NFL right now?

Pittsburgh? Maybe.

Baltimore? JAG quarterback and less than JAG defensive backs.

New Orleans? Indy? San Diego? Not playing like it.

The JETS? I'll believe it when Sanchez is winning in December.

It's as wide open as it's ever going to get. Every team is either obviously flawed or unproven in some aspect of their game. The Pats are no exception. The Pats have as good a chance of becoming elite as any team in the mix.

IMO he elite teams (or at least teams at another level are) Baltimore and Pittsburgh. They have elite defenses, can both run and pass with authority, and have won a close game this season.

The 2nd tier of teams are flawed but competitive

Falcons - closest to the top two but not dominant enough in any of the phases to be a sure thing
Jets - lacking offensive firepower to open up games
Colts - a one man team, defense is weak
Patriots - awful defense
Packers - lots of injuries, undisciplined defense, question mark at RB. I expect things to improve for them

 

[Joker]

RKPLAYER ATT/COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INTSACK RATE YDS/G

26 Joe Flacco, 170-97 57.1 1116 6.57 58 5 6 5 72.1 223

pass with authority????????????????????????????????

Flaccido is the 26th ranked passer in the NFL

 

[SteveBsFan]

The Cinderella 2001 NEP had the 25th ranked defense in that regular season...how quickly they forget...

Realistically though, 9 times out of 10 (if not like 19 times out of 20) the Pats lose that game... or in a best of 7 like the other sports, forget it.

However, that does bring up a different point, in the NFL, it just takes one hot streak at the right time almost regardless of record or stats and any team can really win it. Any given Sunday holds very true in the playoffs, especially with the talent as close as it is.

Of course it's easier to win with the better odds, but as we seen in just the Patriots SB's recently, 50% were won by the huge underdog.. sadly one of those were not in the Pats favor

Anyway, I'm babbling. Pats have a lousy defense, that's going to make it hard to get to the playoffs, but I do think they still can, and with BB+TB, this team is really never out of consideration once Jan rolls around. (I would feel a ton better, however, if it were BB+TB+Romeo+Charlie but oh well)

 

[TheComeback]

In 2001, we had the worst talent to ever win a Super Bowl. That was an awesome year! Comparing us to then merely says that we have a very long way to go to be a top team in the league.

Conversely, the 2001 team proves that you don't need elite talent to win the Super Bowl. What you need are 53 guys who do whatever it takes to win, and have just enough talent to pull it off.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

The Jets are a ('elite'?) complete as can be team, the Pats aren't even close.
The Pats have as many or more question marks on their team than most any
other team ranked in the top third of the league. Can they get there? Sure, if
everything falls in place, but that is not likely. But still, we have Brady, and if
he stays in pre-knee form, and the 'D' secondary gets at least a little better,
anything can happen.

 

[NYCPatsFan]

RKPLAYER ATT/COMP PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INTSACK RATE YDS/G

26 Joe Flacco, 170-97 57.1 1116 6.57 58 5 6 5 72.1 223

pass with authority????????????????????????????????

Flaccido is the 26th ranked passer in the NFL

Well, don't those low-ranked passers seem to put up superb #s when they play against us?

That said, I don't care as long as we have a W.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm with the majority that believes no elite teams have presented themselves yet. I see some good teams out there but nothing dominating that says "not a chance if we played them."

 

[Its_The_Patriots]

This season is as wide open and a 6 lane highway. Anybody can change lanes.

But I will never count my Pats out. They just need to get hot at the right time.

 

[GrogansHeros]

I think this whole debate is premature...as BB says the bell weather is how good you play in DEC...this holds true esp if you look at last year

 

[JackBauer]

IMO he elite teams (or at least teams at another level are) Baltimore and Pittsburgh. They have elite defenses, can both run and pass with authority, and have won a close game this season.

The 2nd tier of teams are flawed but competitive

Falcons - closest to the top two but not dominant enough in any of the phases to be a sure thing
Jets - lacking offensive firepower to open up games
Colts - a one man team, defense is weak
Patriots - awful defense
Packers - lots of injuries, undisciplined defense, question mark at RB. I expect things to improve for them

The Jets are better than the Falcons.

As for the Packers, they've been hit harder by injuries than probably any team in the league. And now Rodgers is sidelined with a concussion; I don't know how you could possibly expect things to improve for them.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

How was the defense vs. Mia not considered elite?

The defense allowed a total of 14 points and scored 7 points.

Hard pressed to think NE can't win a game if all we require Tom Brady to do is get one TD and put us once into FG range once. Or three times get us into FG range.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Sorry but Elite teams don't have defenses ranked 28th overall in the league....this defense needs to start allowing less than 24 points a game to be considered elite.,last weeks win came from STs,Brady making plays and Henne liking to throw to white jerseys.

That was a big win but the defense didn't stop Miami,Henne did - 400 yards of offense says Miami should have kept it closer than the score indicated.

Link please....... Where is it written that the a team can't be elite giving up 24 points a game? Is there an online manual somewhere?

The math I learned in grade school tells me that if your defense gives up 24 points and your offense/ST/D score an average of 33 PPG, that you would win just about every game by about 9 points.

Seriously folks...... some of you need to back away from the stats for a few minutes. Elite teams are dictated by WINS, not highlight reels. Lot's a football to be played before we write this team off an not capable of being elite.

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

this defense needs to start allowing less than 24 points a game to be considered elite.

The defense has been giving up 22.3 points per game.

It should also be noted that the defense has scored 3.5 points per game.

So on average our defense has given up a net 18.8 points per game. So we are asking our offense to put 3TDs on the board or 2TDs and 2 FGs. I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Link please....... Where is it written that the a team can't be elite giving up 24 points a game? Is there an online manual somewhere?

The math I learned in grade school tells me that if your defense gives up 24 points and your offense/ST/D score an average of 33 PPG, that you would win just about every game by about 9 points.

Seriously folks...... some of you need to back away from the stats for a few minutes. Elite teams are dictated by WINS, not highlight reels. Lot's a football to be played before we write this team off an not capable of being elite.

I agree with this post.

I'll rattle off a few years and in my own opinion, answer the question of is the D elite or not (looking at points allowed, 20+ turnovers forced and yards allowed per play)

2009 Saints- no
2008 Steelers- yes
2007 Giants- no (in actually during the regular season, neither the Pats are G'ints were an elite defense, but at least statistically turned it on during the playoffs.
2006 Colts-no (but turned in on in the playoffs and were very good in 2007)
2005 Steelers-yes (turned in on in the playoffs)
2004 Pats-no (slipped a little w/o Ty and Ted W., but still very good)
2003 Pats-yes (but not in the 2nd 1/2 in SB)
2002 Bucs-yes
2001 Pats-no (but again in the playoffs, they were excellent)
2000-Ravens- yes
1999 Rams-no (but very good in 1999)
1998 Broncos-no
1997 Broncos-no
1996 Pack- yes
1995 Cowboys-yes
1994 49ers-no, but solid
1993 Cowboys-yes
1992 Cowboys-yes
1991 'Skins-yes
1990 G'ints-yes

So in the last 20 years of SB champions, thats 11 yeses and 9 nos.

My take- If the O is good and the D can make stops when they need to, thats a SB defense.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Miami's offense isn't all that great. However, I'm on the side that thinks this defense can be something very special, perhaps by the season's end, but definitely in 2012 and 2013. I'm enjoying the ride with this season.

I agree 110%. We can be good by year's end, but I am not sure how good. 2012 and 2013 should be a lot of fun.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Hey, isn't the wishbone still valid offensively?

By the nature of this thread, it must be.

The Steelers are elite by limiting the Falcons to 9 points. Cleveland just limited them to 13 points to they must elite less a bit. Same for Baltimore, the Browns were actually the better team even though they lost. The Steelers can't say the same.

Way too many still judge the NFL by invalid criteria. Look at the Titans against Dallas- over 500 yards of offense and 27 points surrendered. where did they get it done? Turnovers.

A team can only be "elite" if it wins many games by convincing margins. Turn five or six plays and the Ravens and Steelers can be easily 1-4/ 2-3. The Jets are living on borrowed time with Jaws acknowledging the Sanchize could easily have 6-8 picks.

Good teams win close games. This tends to even out.

Best ways to analyze

QB rating-passing efficiency
Turnovers
Explosive plays
situational football.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

I don't think we'll be an "elite" team at any time during this year. We'll show flashes that will make the media take notice, and we'll win ugly games, but we won't be super dominant at any point during the regular season.
We'll finish the season on a win streak with momentum, get the wild card, grind through the playoffs and then crush whatever crap team the NFC throws at us!