Harold Landry Update

[DoubleDeluxe]

I think you would need data specific to how many starting offensive tackles come from each draft class versus outside linebackers or defensive ends.

It seems pretty obvious to me, there is a scarcity of quality starting tackles, there are few found in each draft class. Meanwhile there are a lot more edge players. Sure many are good players languishing on poor teams who can’t generate much pass rush or play defense well, but that’s a result of team.

How is that a result of the team?
Pass rushers have one on one matchups as often as any position. Of course guys like Myles or Anderson will be chipped or doubled, but the majority of Edges have to beat the single guy they are going against more often than not
That has nothing to do with team defense. You beat the guy across from you or don't.
The guys that do are far more often than not very high picks.
We aren't talking about LBs that have multiple responsibilities that heavily rely on the 4 guys in front of them. We are talking about guys who put there hand in the dirt and usually have one job, rush and beat the guy in front of you.

 

[Wozzy]

Wozzy I really believe it's going to come down to who's available at 31. You and I have talked on this. I prefer an edge but will settle for and OT if one is worth taking at #31.

there's so much that will transpire as trades often go down far before the actual draft day.. between now and Thursday.. I really don't know who will be available for us? Any inclination?

No, I was just responding to the theoretical there is an offensive tackle there at 31 with a first round grade and an edge rusher with a first round grade… I’m taking the tackle.

There are edge players like the DE I mentioned earlier from Penn State who are projected into the second round with a first round grade. I don’t see any OT’s with a similar grade possibly slipping to us in the second round. There are fewer options. Matt Judon was a fifth round pick, Ponder was a UDFA… there will be edge players later.

 

[Wozzy]

How is that a result of the team?
Pass rushers have one on one matchups as often as any position. Of course guys like Myles or Anderson will be chipped or doubled, but the majority of Edges have to beat the single guy they are going against more often than not
That has nothing to do with team defense. You beat the guy across from you or don't.
The guys that do are far more often than not very high picks.
We aren't talking about LBs that have multiple responsibilities that heavily rely on the 4 guys in front of them. We are talking about guys who put there hand in the dirt and usually have one job, rush and beat the guy in front of you.

Edge rushers are dependent on big fattys inside drawing double teams and attention. They are also dependent on the ability of their offense to get ahead and force the opponent to pass to create pass rush situations. They are dependent on interior lineman to stuff the run, defensive backs to prevent conversions and putting opposing offenses into third and long pass rush situations. Theres plenty of good or even great edge players on bad teams.

Offensive linemen aren’t dependent on anyone, everyone is dependent on them. Everything starts in the trenches.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

No, I was just responding to the theoretical there is an offensive tackle there at 31 with a first round grade and an edge rusher with a first round grade… I’m taking the tackle.

There are edge players like the DE I mentioned earlier from Penn State who are projected into the second round with a first round grade. I don’t see any OT’s with a similar grade possibly slipping to us in the second round. There are fewer options. Matt Judon was a fifth round pick, Ponder was a UDFA… there will be edge players later.

You are using the outliers.
Mailata was a 7th rd pick. These are exceptions, not the rule.
There will be Edges available later, and historically they won't be very good.
You run no less of a risk getting a good Edge later than you do an OT.

 

[Wozzy]

You are using the outliers.
Mailata was a 7th rd pick. These are exceptions, not the rule.
There will be Edges available later, and historically they won't be very good.
You run no less of a risk getting a good Edge later than you do an OT.

I was specifically talking about Mailata earlier when I said rare cases of small school phenoms and international players.

Judon and Ponder aren’t outliers… there are fewer 6’6” 320 pound athletes on this planet than 6 foot ones… I don’t need stats to show this, that’s self evident. There are fewer massive sized people than average ones… the word “average” is the giveaway.

You’ll find much fewer examples of quality offensive tackles beyond the first few rounds than other positions like edge. God makes more average sized people, it’s simple supply and demand.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

I was specifically talking about Mailata earlier when I said rare cases of small school phenoms and international players.

Judon and Ponder aren’t outliers… there are fewer 6’6” 320 pound athletes on this planet than 6 foot ones… I don’t need stats to show this, that’s self evident. There are fewer massive sized people than average ones… the word “average” is the giveaway.

You’ll find much fewer examples of quality offensive tackles beyond the first few rounds than other positions like edge. God makes more average sized people, it’s simple supply and demand.

They are outliers in that they were drafted late or not all and went on to be good NFL players.
Ponder is a wait and see, but Judon most certainly is an exception as a real good rusher as a 5th rd pick. He is most most definitely an outlier.

 

[Real fan 02]

No, I was just responding to the theoretical there is an offensive tackle there at 31 with a first round grade and an edge rusher with a first round grade… I’m taking the tackle.

There are edge players like the DE I mentioned earlier from Penn State who are projected into the second round with a first round grade. I don’t see any OT’s with a similar grade possibly slipping to us in the second round. There are fewer options. Matt Judon was a fifth round pick, Ponder was a UDFA… there will be edge players later.

Ok. Right now I'll continue to say this we don't have depth and, or a definite starter opposite Dre Jones. You have starters on the offensive line.

All we have to do is look what Vrabel's tell us.. adding Vera-Tucker, moving Wilson to C. Of course the RT Moses is also a question however he's currently committed to 2026 and says he's healthy not rehabbing an injury and hoping to return like Landry.

We can have it both ways.. getting the guy that's the greater need at edge first is the likely scenario unless an OT is there worth the taking at 31.. nonetheless we will come away from the draft with both an edge & the OT no matter where we've taken them. I just wouldn't become to enamored with thinking we are going to always find to many starting level players in UDFA or rounds 6&7.

 

[Wozzy]

They are outliers in that they were drafted late or not all and went on to be good NFL players.
Ponder is a wait and see, but Judon most certainly is an exception as a real good rusher as a 5th rd pick. He is most most definitely an outlier.

Good grief… let me put this another way.

I’ve run dozens of draft simulations using multiple different draft boards to change it up. Without exception by the time I get to the Patriots second round pick, there is not a single tackle there with a first round grade. None.

Meanwhile edge guys like Dani Dennis-Sutton, Gabe Jacas, Cashius Howell and Malachi Lawrence are sitting there. These guys might be the best edge player in this entire draft class, there’s even guys like Tyreek Sapp to be found at the very end of the draft with potential… not a single offensive tackle shares that optimistic outlook.

Maybe Markel Bell might turn out to the that one out of a hundred mountain men that buck the odds and becomes a player. If you have as close to a sure thing like Blake Miller there at 31 you take him and don’t think twice.

 

[Wozzy]

Ok. Right now I'll continue to say this we don't have depth and, or a definite starter opposite Dre Jones. You have starters on the offensive line.

Landry is roughly six years younger than Moses. Ponder and Swinson are kids. Dremont isn’t even your starter, Milton Williams is. Milton was 285 pounds leaving college, he is a DE.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Good grief… let me put this another way.

I’ve run dozens of draft simulations using multiple different draft boards to change it up. Without exception by the time I get to the Patriots second round pick, there is not a single tackle there with a first round grade. None.

Meanwhile edge guys like Dani Dennis-Sutton, Gabe Jacas, Cashius Howell and Malachi Lawrence are sitting there. These guys might be the best edge player in this entire draft class, there’s even guys like Tyreek Sapp to be found at the very end of the draft with potential… not a single offensive tackle shares that optimistic outlook.

Maybe Markel Bell might turn out to the that one out of a hundred mountain men that buck the odds and becomes a player. If you have as close to a sure thing like Blake Miller there at 31 you take him and don’t think twice.

I have run multiple sims too, like literally hundreds.
I agree with what you are saying regarding those sims, however those are all based on census "expert" rankings.
We see it every year, actual NFL teams rankings are way different than those so called "consensus" rankings.
There very easily could be an OT we have rated as a 2nd prospect that no one is considering.
We could very easily have DDS ranked higher than Lomu, Iheanchor, Miller....
We don't know what we don't know.
If you told me today we could walk away from the first 2 rds with Miller and DDS I would run to the podium to make those picks.

 

[Real fan 02]

I have run multiple sims too, like literally hundreds.
I agree with what you are saying regarding those sims, however those are all based on census "expert" rankings.
We see it every year, actual NFL teams rankings are way different than those so called "consensus" rankings.
There very easily could be an OT we have rated as a 2nd prospect that no one is considering.
We could very easily have DDS ranked higher than Lomu, Iheanchor, Miller....
We don't know what we don't know.
If you told me today we could walk away from the first 2 rds with Miller and DDS I would run to the podium to make those picks.

Patriots Hosted Edge Compared to Trey Hendrickson, Amid Pass-Rush Worry

The New England Patriots hosted two edger-rushers from the 2026 NFL draft, including one compared to 4-time Pro Bowler Trey Hendrickson.

heavy.com

 

[Real fan 02]

Landry is roughly six years younger than Moses. Ponder and Swinson are kids. Dremont isn’t even your starter, Milton Williams is. Milton was 285 pounds leaving college, he is a DE.

Landy had a recent major injury in 2022 as we knew players don't get healthier as thker career spans on... Ponder I'm high on Swinson is a question mark. Dre Jones is you're starting edge milt can line up there but he plays inside with Barmore they both move around alot..
39 Million that says he's a starter..

 

[Wozzy]

I have run multiple sims too, like literally hundreds.
I agree with what you are saying regarding those sims, however those are all based on census "expert" rankings.
We see it every year, actual NFL teams rankings are way different than those so called "consensus" rankings.
There very easily could be an OT we have rated as a 2nd prospect that no one is considering.
We could very easily have DDS ranked higher than Lomu, Iheanchor, Miller....
We don't know what we don't know.
If you told me today we could walk away from the first 2 rds with Miller and DDS I would run to the podium to make those picks.

I think Blake Miller and Iheanchor at the end of the first is your last chance to get a starting tackle and even see Max as a raw but talented risk.

If both are gone, you may as well trade back or take the BPA if you can’t find a trade partner.

There are some okay looking developmental OT’s later in the draft, but not much.

 

[Wozzy]

Landy had a recent major injury in 2022 as we knew players don't get healthier as thker career spans on... Ponder I'm high on Swinson is a question mark. Dre Jones is you're starting edge milt can line up there but he plays inside with Barmore they both move around alot..
39 Million that says he's a starter..

They’ll play Dre'mont a lot, he’ll take Jennings run stop snaps. He’ll also get a lot of run early if Landry misses the start of the season or is limited. He got 23M guaranteed on a 3 year deal, good but not starter money for a DE. He will spell Williams and keep him healthy.

Landry is the starter at OLB, it’s not even a question… even if he’s limited to start. Ponder might explode if Landry’s limited in camp. Either way, they can add edge depth from the 2nd on assuming they get a tackle in the first. Like I said above, they might get the best edge player in the entire draft class in the second… you can’t say that about tackle.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Good grief… let me put this another way.

I’ve run dozens of draft simulations using multiple different draft boards to change it up. Without exception by the time I get to the Patriots second round pick, there is not a single tackle there with a first round grade. None.

Meanwhile edge guys like Dani Dennis-Sutton, Gabe Jacas, Cashius Howell and Malachi Lawrence are sitting there. These guys might be the best edge player in this entire draft class, there’s even guys like Tyreek Sapp to be found at the very end of the draft with potential… not a single offensive tackle shares that optimistic outlook.

Maybe Markel Bell might turn out to the that one out of a hundred mountain men that buck the odds and becomes a player. If you have as close to a sure thing like Blake Miller there at 31 you take him and don’t think twice.

Correct about no OT's being there at pick 63, but sometimes there's none of the premier edges either. If both the OT's are gone at 31, take an Edge or try to trade down 5-10 spots and then take one. I do expect Landry to be ready, though, and for Ponder to break out, so if there's some other stud that slips, they could go a different direction.

Best scenario by far is to land Miller or Max with the 1st pick. Wouldn't be a shock to dangle a 4th for a small move up to 27 or 28 if one of them is still on the board.

 

[Real fan 02]

They’ll play Dre'mont a lot, he’ll take Jennings run stop snaps. He’ll also get a lot of run early if Landry misses the start of the season or is limited. He got 23M guaranteed on a 3 year deal, good but not starter money for a DE. He will spell Williams and keep him healthy.

Landry is the starter at OLB, it’s not even a question… even if he’s limited to start. Ponder might explode if Landry’s limited in camp. Either way, they can add edge depth from the 2nd on assuming they get a tackle in the first. Like I said above, they might get the best edge player in the entire draft class in the second… you can’t say that about tackle.

The hope is Landry can at least be a rotational contributor this season he's still valuable to the team as leader. Dre Jones, Ponder and the rookie edge rusher likely will be your starting/rotational guys.. Swinson, and another player currently not on the roster for depth. At this point whoever is taken first will ne an impact player for us. We have longerterm and immediate concerns at RT and most definitely at edge. Like I'm saying.. as currently constructed heading into the draft if a game were played today Ponder amd Jones are your starters at edge. Milt can play DE of course but his strength is inside, stunts & games with Barmore. They are near dominant when rushing inside together.. just imagine once the pass rush catches up.

 

[dliverey44]

Diggs was ready for the season, Landry is reportedly going to be ready for OTA’s… it seems Landry will be ready. If not, you start Ponder at OLB, back him up with Swinson and whatever rookies you find in the middle to late rounds of the draft and UDFA.

And no, the other edge will be Milton Williams with Dremont Jones rotating in. If by some chance Landry is having his snaps limited they could easily utilize a two DE set with Williams and Dremont on the edges.

Finding another fatty to replace Tonga is arguably a bigger need. If by some chance a hyper talented DT is there at 31 having another Barmore next to Barmore would do more for actual pass rush then another speed rusher off the edge. Tonga was good but limited, having another DT like Barmore who demands double teams or destroys the pocket would be huge.

In short, if there’s a 1st round grade OT there you have to take him… these guys are in short supply. Speed rushers are everywhere in the draft.

To kinda piggy back off you post. I can see a the start of the season, assuming that Landry is managed due to the injury, Milt-Barmore-Durden-Jones. The rotation being a mix of Landry, Ponder, Taylor, Farmer and possibly Swinson.
Milt is better inside but is quite formidable on the edge as well.

I am more worried about the ILB spot because Ellis is just OK and if Spillane who is 30 misses time then we are hurting. Jacob Rodriguez (I know it won't happen) is in serious consideration at 31. He is a ball hawk, very athletic and a future green dot.

 

[Ring 6]

That is what I pretty much said. All teams have their own draft rankings and that's what we're talking about here.
You never draft a player who is substantially worse than where you are drafting him regardless if its a position of need. Never.
But I agree that in some drafts, there may not be much difference between say,#20 and #30. And in that case, you take the position of need even if he's #30. Its not about the number of the pick its about talent level, upside etc. But usually, there's a big difference in quality from # 20 and # 30.
So need is never your #1 goal in a draft.
#1 is obviously improving your team. And reaching for a mediocre player who never contributes not only didn't fill the need you were trying to fill, you also missed out on a high quality player at another position.
We have seen this happen time and time again over the years with many teams

Agree, but there isn’t a specified ordinal ranking. Within organizations people disagree on ranking players. If the draft tells us anything it’s that those rankings are not very predictive of the future, they are often wrong.
Because of that in ALL draft, outside of a a couple of standouts, there is no clear agreement who the best player on the board is. The gap between 10-15 players on the board at any time is opinion and subject to disagreement.
It never is a choice between a guaranteed better player and a guaranteed worse player.

 

[Ring 6]

To kinda piggy back off you post. I can see a the start of the season, assuming that Landry is managed due to the injury, Milt-Barmore-Durden-Jones. The rotation being a mix of Landry, Ponder, Taylor, Farmer and possibly Swinson.

I am more worried about the ILB spot because Ellis is just OK and if Spillane who is 30 misses time then we are hurting. Jacob Rodriguez (I know it won't happen) is in serious consideration at 31. He is a ball hawk, very athletic and a future green dot.

I think Landry is a full go and full time player from week 1.

 

[Ring 6]

The hope is Landry can at least be a rotational contributor this season he's still valuable to the team as leader. Dre Jones, Ponder and the rookie edge rusher likely will be your starting/rotational guys.. Swinson, and another player currently not on the roster for depth. At this point whoever is taken first will ne an impact player for us. We have longerterm and immediate concerns at RT and most definitely at edge. Like I'm saying.. as currently constructed heading into the draft if a game were played today Ponder amd Jones are your starters at edge. Milt can play DE of course but his strength is inside, stunts & games with Barmore. They are near dominant when rushing inside together.. just imagine once the pass rush catches up.

Why in the world would Landry not be the starter playing the vast majority of snaps?