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Rehashing the Super Bowl strip sack

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Next, let's all talk about embarrassing things we did as teenagers. Then we can reminisce about missed business opportunities.

Finally we can round it out with talking about girls we liked but lacked the bravery to approach.

I think that I'd rather do that than talk about the Pats last loss, but all of my embarrassing moments as a teenager have been suppressed or just plain forgotten. I know there were quite a few though.

I didn't miss too many business opportunities because I didn't attempt many.

I do remember getting up the courage to ask a girl to go steady with me in 8th grade and being delighted, shocked and amazed that she said yes. Then, like a damn fool, I succumbed to peer pressure and dumped the little cutie a few weeks later.
 
There is no point discussing how an nfl pass play works with someone who doesn’t understand the basics, so I’ll leave you to your ignorance.

Another AJ special, when confronted with simple unassailable truths proclaim the teller ignorant and declare victory. smdh
 
@AndyJohnson, you didn't introduce anything I didn't already know, but I'll concede my post wasn't as clear as it could have been. I just gave it a once over.
 
@AndyJohnson, you didn't introduce anything I didn't already know, but I'll concede my post wasn't as clear as it could have been. I just gave it a once over.

thevroote must be completed first.
 
@AndyJohnson, you didn't introduce anything I didn't already know, but I'll concede my post wasn't as clear as it could have been. I just gave it a once over.
Let me try to explain.

Brady, like every other player had an assignment on the play. He isn’t back there looking around, “surveying the field”.
Pre snap he is reading what he thinks the coverage is. The play has “progressions” which will vary depending upon what the defense is doing. Progressions mean which target the play is designed to get the ball to (ie throw here unless there is a problem) then the secondary route which is often a complementary route off the first, etc etc.
The routes are designed to work in conjunction with each other. For example 2 routes may pressure the same safety and his choice of where to go may open the other. Some routes are simply designed to take coverage away from where you want to get the ball.
On this play post snap Brady has determined his progressions and it appears his pre snap read was right on. And I need to clarify something here. This wasn’t a “slow developing play” it was about a 12 yard out. If you put the clock to it I’d guess the ball is out at about 2 seconds.
Bradys first assignment, knowing gronk is the primary target is to look off gronk in order to influence the safety.
His first progression is gronk. That means the play is designed to go to gronk. He isn’t leaving that progression until he makes the decision to throw there or not. His second progression means after ruling out the first he knows where the second is (I think it’s white in this case) and looks there.
You suggested he “scan his progressions” while route 1 is being run and that both isnt reasonable and isn’t way it works. If he tried to scan through all 5 receivers and make throw/no throw decisions on each then choose his target based upon liking them all over, first he would get sacked 12 times a game and second he would never deliver the ball in time.
When the okay call takes x time and the protection doesn’t hold up x time there is nothing the qb can do except escape. At the moment Brady saw pressure he abandoned the gronk route and turned to throw to white.
His assignment on the play says white isn’t a factor until
A) Gronk is covered
B) The play breaks down before gronk is in the throwing area

There is no facet of the play that say while the primary receiver is in his way to the target area, check if there is someone to dump it off to sooner.
A QB is never going to abandon the primary 12 yard out that the play is designed for to throw to an underneath route 2 yards down the field.
If that were the case Brady would spend all day dumping off and never throwing the ball down the field.
 
Another AJ special, when confronted with simple unassailable truths proclaim the teller ignorant and declare victory. smdh
You posted no truths only a clear misunderstanding of how a pass play in the NFL works.
You clearly are too stubborn to listen and learn, so I leave you to your ignorance rather than bang my head against a wall.
 
If you put the clock to it I’d guess the ball is o

This was the point of contention. For some reason, I recalled it as being about 4 seconds, which would have been enough time for the route to develop and to check other options.

I just watched it again and you are correct that it was only two seconds, which isn't nearly enough time to drop his presnap read. Thank you for helping me see my error.
 
Chatham was writing about the Butler situation specifically but it kinda is true for the entire SB "what if" discussion.



It has been discussed rationally, irrationally, in form of eloquent prose and -- of course -- also in the form of lazy memes.

A new season is on. Get over it boys.
 
Chatham was writing about the Butler situation specifically but it kinda is true for the entire SB "what if" discussion.



It has been discussed rationally, irrationally, in form of eloquent prose and -- of course -- also in the form of lazy memes.

A new season is on. Get over it boys.


People will keep asking till the cows come home. Shaughnessy tried today.
 
2nd and short is a perfect situation for a big play. He probably saw something in the defense that he could try to exploit.

Sometimes the other team just makes more plays. Move on.
 
Sometimes the other team just makes more plays.

Absolutely, most of us call that football. Tip your cap and move on, just like we expect when the Pats make more plays.
 
The actual game situation, however, said that it wasn't.

Despite my recent concession, I still have to agree with Captain on this at least this thought process. Moving down the field was such a foregone conclusion that even a hint of, "we have a chance for a big play here" should have been removed from the lexicon. It caused risk in both failure and in success.

Not that this negates my earlier error, but I remain convinced that the approach may have been more aggressive than required.
 
Despite my recent concession, I still have to agree with Captain on this at least this thought process. Moving down the field was such a foregone conclusion that even a hint of, "we have a chance for a big play here" should have been removed from the lexicon. It caused risk in both failure and in success.

Not that this negates my earlier error, but I remain convinced that the approach may have been more aggressive than required.
Well that would be a play call complaint.
But it wasn’t really a “big play” it was a 12 yard out.
We were at the -33 with under 2:30 and only one time out.
Time was still more our enemy than our friend with 67 yards to go.
I see think thinking of getting to near midfield and then the 2 minutes warning comes. Midfield or better at 2:00 with 1 time out seems more in control than at the 35.
 
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Well that would be a play call complaint.

Agreed.

Well that would be a play call complaint.
But it wasn’t really a “big play” it was a 12 yard out.
We were at the -33 with under 2:30 and only one time out.
Time was still more our enemy than our friend with 67 yards to go.
I see think thinking of getting to near midfield and then the 2 minutes warning comes. Midfield or better at 2:00 with 1 time out seems more in control than at the 35.

My complaint here is a bit more subtle and perhaps not well formulated.

First, I should say that I would have given NE better than even odds of scoring a TD with the ball on their own 10 and only a minute remaining. Philly was toast and the Pats had their number from the start. I could make a reasonable argument that NE's offense was a greater mismatch against Philly's D than the reverse, and that NE failed to hit 50 purely because of their own unforced errors.

Needless to say, none of the details in your second quote are of much concern to me. I was more worried about scoring too fast than I was about not scoring at all. And, even with the benefit of hindsight, I would feel the same if we could magically recreate the same situation right now.

As such, I felt a minimal risk approach was best. On second and short I would have had a short route like White's be the primary read. Take the easy stuff and kill clock as you walk down the field.

You may counter that, given the short distance and the near certainty of converting given two more downs, why not try to snag a few free yards? But this is precisely my point. Two minutes was an eternity in that situation. NE could have gone 200 yards using nothing but draws and check downs. The only reason to even need two full seconds was if Philly shockingly covered the short routes... which they clearly didn't here.

Perhaps I'm engaging in a touch of hyperbole, but it's minimal if so. And none of this is hindsight, I voiced my strategy at the time and I saw how open White was immediately. Early enough that I was pleading for Tom to look his way long before the pocket collapsed.

Anyway, that's probably enough for now. You were clearly right about my first argument, but I still think there was an error in approach that left the door open for Philly. It was just a crack, but it was avoidable and the Eagles don't stop them without it.
 
Agreed.



My complaint here is a bit more subtle and perhaps not well formulated.

First, I should say that I would have given NE better than even odds of scoring a TD with the ball on their own 10 and only a minute remaining. Philly was toast and the Pats had their number from the start. I could make a reasonable argument that NE's offense was a greater mismatch against Philly's D than the reverse, and that NE failed to hit 50 purely because of their own unforced errors.

Needless to say, none of the details in your second quote are of much concern to me. I was more worried about scoring too fast than I was about not scoring at all. And, even with the benefit of hindsight, I would feel the same if we could magically recreate the same situation right now.

As such, I felt a minimal risk approach was best. On second and short I would have had a short route like White's be the primary read. Take the easy stuff and kill clock as you walk down the field.

You may counter that, given the short distance and the near certainty of converting given two more downs, why not try to snag a few free yards? But this is precisely my point. Two minutes was an eternity in that situation. NE could have gone 200 yards using nothing but draws and check downs. The only reason to even need two full seconds was if Philly shockingly covered the short routes... which they clearly didn't here.

Perhaps I'm engaging in a touch of hyperbole, but it's minimal if so. And none of this is hindsight, I voiced my strategy at the time and I saw how open White was immediately. Early enough that I was pleading for Tom to look his way long before the pocket collapsed.

Anyway, that's probably enough for now. You were clearly right about my first argument, but I still think there was an error in approach that left the door open for Philly. It was just a crack, but it was avoidable and the Eagles don't stop them without it.
I think you are taking way too much for granted. No way is a 75 yard td drive guaranteed so you try not to move the ball.
And you don’t worry about too much click until you are at least inside the +30.
 
Needless to say, none of the details in your second quote are of much concern to me. I was more worried about scoring too fast than I was about not scoring at all. And, even with the benefit of hindsight, I would feel the same if we could magically recreate the same situation right now.

As such, I felt a minimal risk approach was best. On second and short I would have had a short route like White's be the primary read. Take the easy stuff and kill clock as you walk down the field.

You may counter that, given the short distance and the near certainty of converting given two more downs, why not try to snag a few free yards? But this is precisely my point. Two minutes was an eternity in that situation. NE could have gone 200 yards using nothing but draws and check downs. The only reason to even need two full seconds was if Philly shockingly covered the short routes... which they clearly didn't here.

You are correct, 2 minutes was an absolute eternity. Anyone even moderately familiar with the game of football in general and that game in particular, if they are being honest, felt the same way you did. With regards to the clock every fan I have spoken with, including those I was watching the game with, not only felt there was ample time remaining but were concerned with using as much of it as possible before scoring given the state of our D.
 
You are correct, 2 minutes was an absolute eternity. Anyone even moderately familiar with the game of football in general and that game in particular, if they are being honest, felt the same way you did. With regards to the clock every fan I have spoken with, including those I was watching the game with, not only felt there was ample time remaining but were concerned with using as much of it as possible before scoring given the state of our D.

Given the way the defense was playing, I wanted them to bleed the clock as much as humanly possible.
 
The football gods said, "Do unto the Patriots what the Patriots have done unto you." Karma is a *****:

 
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