Rehashing the Super Bowl strip sack

[Patsgofor4]

I have not re-watched that heartbreaking play until this morning, when I decided to torture myself. Obviously, Mason allowed the pocket to collapse and that was a key factor but Brady has to share some of the blame.







2nd and 2. Take the EASY first down to a WIDE OPEN White in the flat and move on. This was clearly a broken coverage by Philly. Instead, Brady’s first look is down the middle of the field. By the time he comes back to White, it’s too late. I know that to some here it is sacrilege to criticize Brady but he seemed to get greedy on this play and it cost them dearly.

Ok, I’m now on to 2018-19.

 

[Sicilian]

Definitely looks that way in hindsight. But Brady was in a pretty unbelievable groove at that moment, and his line had given him time practically all game. I have a hard time blaming him for feeling a tad bit invincible.

 

[Ring 6]

I have not re-watched that heartbreaking play until this morning, when I decided to torture myself. Obviously, Mason allowed the pocket to collapse and that was a key factor but Brady has to share some of the blame.



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2nd and 2. Take the EASY first down to a WIDE OPEN White in the flat and move on. This was clearly a broken coverage by Philly. Instead, Brady’s first look is down the middle of the field. By the time he comes back to White, it’s too late. I know that to some here it is sacrilege to criticize Brady but he seemed to get greedy on this play and it cost them dearly.

Ok, I’m now on to 2018-19.

Brady has progressions given to him on that play.
It’s clear that progression #1 is Gronk.
It’s incorrect to say he should check down prior to his #1 progression coming open, unless he has to escape pressure, which is exactly what he did when he saw the pressure, but it was too late.

It’s not about being greedy or refusing to take the Checkdown. It’s about the checkdown isn’t in okay until after the primary route is eliminated.

In other words the play call says throw to gronk. Gronks Route was not complete so he couldn’t throw to gronk YET. He was coming open though. The play design isn’t throw to route 1 unless you look around and notice route 4 is open then ignore route 1.

What Brady was actually doing was looking off the safety while the route developed.

If you want to blame the play call for being a slow developing play on 2nd and 2 so be it. If you want to blame Brady for not seeing the pressure, ok but a an watching the pass rush is a doomed qb.
But you can’t bkame Brady for executing the play as designed because his protection failed.

 

[Kdo5]

Meh. Brady was looking for his #1 read and given how much they had been shredding that defense was probably looking for a 25-30 yard gain.

Would have been a poor decision if it was 3rd and 2, not 2nd and 2. Brady did far more than enough to win the game for us.

 

[brdmaverick]

Everyone makes a good point in this thread. Losing the game in the fashion that we did is a tough pill to swallow, so of course there are plays we'd like to take back.

If it makes you feel better though, while we can easily imagine this play going well (dump off to White) and eventually winning the Super Bowl, can't you also imagine the "Edelman catch" from SB 51 instead being intercepted?

Sure, of course you want both things to go your way, but that's not life. If I had to pick between the two, I'd take the 25 pt comeback.

This is how I try to rationalize not being outraged by the loss.

 

[signbabybrady]

He's got to hold on to the ball. That was his biggest mistake.

 

[Ring 6]

Meh. Brady was looking for his #1 read and given how much they had been shredding that defense was probably looking for a 25-30 yard gain.

Would have been a poor decision if it was 3rd and 2, not 2nd and 2. Brady did far more than enough to win the game for us.

Would have been a different play call on 3rd and 2.

 

[Kontradiction]

Eagles came out in a wide 9 front and had four of their quickest pass rushers on the field for that down. There either needed to be an audible or the progressions should have changed since, given the front they were throwing at the Pats coupled with what they were doing in coverage (Cover-3 Buzz), a deep breaking out route shouldn't have been the first progression.

 

[maust]

I have not re-watched that heartbreaking play until this morning, when I decided to torture myself. Obviously, Mason allowed the pocket to collapse and that was a key factor but Brady has to share some of the blame.

If you are looking to do it then there's more than enough blame to go around, not just on that play but for the whole game. What I find disappointing is the inability or unwillingness of so many to not give much in the way of credit to the Eagles. Sometimes the other guy gets more right than you do, that's football.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady has progressions given to him on that play.
It’s clear that progression #1 is Gronk.
It’s incorrect to say he should check down prior to his #1 progression coming open, unless he has to escape pressure, which is exactly what he did when he saw the pressure, but it was too late.

It’s not about being greedy or refusing to take the Checkdown. It’s about the checkdown isn’t in okay until after the primary route is eliminated.

In other words the play call says throw to gronk. Gronks Route was not complete so he couldn’t throw to gronk YET. He was coming open though. The play design isn’t throw to route 1 unless you look around and notice route 4 is open then ignore route 1.

What Brady was actually doing was looking off the safety while the route developed.

If you want to blame the play call for being a slow developing play on 2nd and 2 so be it. If you want to blame Brady for not seeing the pressure, ok but a an watching the pass rush is a doomed qb.
But you can’t bkame Brady for executing the play as designed because his protection failed.

Eagles came out in a wide 9 front and had four of their quickest pass rushers on the field for that down. There either needed to be an audible or the progressions should have changed since, given the front they were throwing at the Pats coupled with what they were doing in coverage (Cover-3 Buzz), a deep breaking out route shouldn't have been the first progression.

I’m surprised Kontra didn’t challenge Andy again on progressions like in an earlier thread.

I would’ve taken the check down as it was open from the snap. Take the 10+ yards and get out of bounds.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I am not sure he had enough time to even hit White, unless he made an off-balance throw.

 

[Ring 6]

I’m surprised Kontra didn’t challenge Andy again on progressions like in an earlier thread.

I don’t see his posts. But I know from experience he doesn’t understand the concepts so it isn’t really a challenge.

I would’ve taken the check down as it was open from the snap. Take the 10+ yards and get out of bounds.

So you are suggesting that Brady should abandon plays and progressions and just survey the field and pick who he wants to throw to?
I suppose he also shouldn’t look off the safety because instead he should be abandoning the play call and looking for someone to be open.

 

[Kontradiction]

I’m surprised Kontra didn’t challenge Andy again on progressions like in an earlier thread.

I would’ve taken the check down as it was open from the snap. Take the 10+ yards and get out of bounds.

No point since he doesn’t respond. No balls. You tend to avoid people that crush you over and over again which is why I’m supposedly on his safe space ignore list.

Anyway, multiple people pointed out that progressions should, can, and do change depending on what the defense does. That’s actually common knowledge. Wide nine front and cover-3 buzz dictate that a man is usually open in the flats and we saw that with White.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I don’t see his posts. But I know from experience he doesn’t understand the concepts so it isn’t really a challenge.


So you are suggesting that Brady should abandon plays and progressions and just survey the field and pick who he wants to throw to?
I suppose he also shouldn’t look off the safety because instead he should be abandoning the play call and looking for someone to be open.

Yes. I agree with Kontra that progressions may change based on what defense you see at the LOS or at the snap.

It would be stubborn for Brady to lock onto Gronk regardless of what defense he sees. That’s like college “look at me offense” where the QB throws to where the coach wants him to throw to no matter what defense they see.

White was ridiculously wide open and he should’ve got the ball as the Eagles were giving up free yards on that play. I understand if it was early in the game and Brady wanted to see if he could get a bigger gain but the game was on the line in this situation.

But I guess based on what Brady saw, he thought Gronk would be open.

 

[fnordcircle]

I don't see a throwing lane for Brady there. Is he supposed to throw it blindly?

Likely his choice in progressions accounted for where the defensive lineman *should* have been at each point in the progressions. Looking to the flat makes sense if he's able to move enough in the pocket to avoid the two linemen on the end and be able to see where he's throwing without the ball getting tipped.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

No point since he doesn’t respond. No balls. You tend to avoid people that crush you over and over again which is why I’m supposedly on his safe space ignore list.

Anyway, multiple people pointed out that progressions should, can, and do change depending on what the defense does. That’s actually common knowledge. Wide nine front and cover-3 buzz dictate that a man is usually open in the flats and we saw that with White.

Of course they do. Depending on the play he might look vert on a yankee concept, read on side on high/low-flood or even "stare down" a WR on a slant or short crosser.

 

[Kdo5]

Would have been a different play call on 3rd and 2.

Sure. Just meant whatever the play Brady would have taken an easy first down on third right when he saw it.

 

[Kontradiction]

Of course they do. Depending on the play he might look vert on a yankee concept, read on side on high/low-flood or even "stare down" a WR on a slant or short crosser.

The short crosser to Amendola was kind of an option as well but he (Dola) would have been punished for it. I don’t think I’m going to a deep breaking out there, though. In the wake of that, I had wondered if they fooled Brady.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes. I agree with Kontra that progressions may change based on what defense you see at the LOS or at the snap.

Or they may not. The play call was fine. Gronk was coming open. The blocking broke down.

It would be stubborn for Brady to lock onto Gronk regardless of what defense he sees.

It would but that’s not what he did. He saw the coverage and that coverage dictated his #1 target was gronk. That’s not “locking on” that’s executing the play.

That’s like college “look at me offense” where the QB throws to where the coach wants him to throw to no matter what defense they see.

No it’s an nfl offensive play that has a primary receiver running a slow developing route.

White was ridiculously wide open and he should’ve got the ball as the Eagles were giving up free yards on that play.

The play call and coverage says gronk is the primary. Brady is liking off the safety. When he comes back to gronk just about ready to throw, the hit happens, and when he sees the hit coming he tries to dump to white but it’s too late. Textbook qb progressions.

I understand if it was early in the game and Brady wanted to see if he could get a bigger gain but the game was on the line in this situation.

You don’t understand how am nfl pass play works.

But I guess based on what Brady saw, he thought Gronk would be open.

He did, and he was right, he just needed better blocking.

 

[Ring 6]

Sure. Just meant whatever the play Brady would have taken an easy first down on third right when he saw it.

Yeah.
And you could argue the play call should have been one that ran his progressions short to long on 2nd and 2 and that would be valid but to put this on Brady is just not understanding how nfl pass plays work.