Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by IcyPatriot, Jan 6, 2020.
Everybody knows you win by running the ball. If you don't believe look at the graphics.
If brady walks, you ****ing nuke it.
We need talent going forward and the only way in the next two years is through the draft
Bill isn't doing that
So bill has got to get brady reeled in
If they want to forge a realistic path to winning a SB in the next two years, you gotta get TB back and reload as smart as you can. Yeah, there’s some limitations and tough decisions to be made on veterans. Make them - who better to navigate that than Bill Belichick? But if they are walking away from 2020/21 Brady because they think that will make them better in 2022/23, that is foolish.
If you want to believe that sprinkling Stidham with fairy dust (or signing PHILIP RIVERS, was that a serious suggestion I saw?) and saving money by not paying Brady will somehow mean they will seriously compete for a SB with the other players they spend it on in 2020 or 2021, which is not nearly enough to overhaul this roster without multiple drafts full of quality players...then more power to you. I’ll happily eat my shoes if and when it happens. They might NOT win a 7th by reloading. But I’d hate to watch them throw it away.
It wouldn’t be a totally unreasonable organizational philosophy to want to tear it down and rebuild. It’s going to have to happen eventually. But in a league where teams go 10, 20, 50 years without ever having a real shot at the SB, when you have that opportunity it seems silly to throw it away. Change is hard. The Chicago Bulls thought they would have won a 7th title by now because they made the hard decision to move on from the GOAT and went young. They could’ve stole the ‘99 title, all it would cost is money. It’s been 22 years...I think they made the Conf Semis once and are 5 full “rebuilds” in with no end in sight.
I do... Think it's a pretty effin amazing team accomplishment in its own right... It's about winning... To have the record for most consecutive winning seasons would be pretty damn cool...
I'm already getting ready for the days of yesteryear as far back as pre-Parcells and Bledsoe. When Brady leaves Foxborough I have a feeling we'll see a couple lean years. Even one more ring would be worth mortgaging the future a bit IMO.
the "come on man" wasn't for believing that. it was for missing the humor/sarcasm in his original post.
yeah, to me it's just one of a slew of records we've set from being so consistent. it'll get lost in those. it's no more important than any of the other ones like consecutive division titles, playoff byes, afc champ appearances, etc.
we have more than enough records related to winning consistently over a long stretch. at this point, the only thing that will stand out from what we've already done is competing for more championships
This “Super Bowl” caliber defense was throttled by run heavy teams who tossed Pats DL aside like rag dolls
This oldest roster in the NFL was bit ch-slapped by the Two Ryan’s whose teams had a combined record of 14-18
And this rebuild/retool with be achieved via mid round comp picks ?
All good I like busting balls
Perhaps you might consider that SB winners more than half the time lose their division the next year, and are shut out of the playoffs. I don't know what their average record is.
A 12-4 performance following a Super Bowl is just not good enough. I get it. For most here, it would have been a failure to lose in the Championship game or in the SB.
Also, I understand that we deserve to win the SB, so someone must have caused us to lose. It must be someone's fault. And clearly, our judgements would have been much better than those of Casserio and Belichick. We're that good.
THE SEASON STARTS
I would start with the season beginning at Game One. At that point, with the team that we had, I believe that 12-4 and a division win would have been a reasonable prediction, and a good season.
It was a miracle that Brady survived the season as well as he did. Even Scar cautioned us about Newhouse, basically saying that nothing could be expected from a street free agent. That he was given 2 useless inactive backups as his other 2 additions, Scar deserves a medal. I hope that he can be convinced to come back.
Personally, in foresight and hindsight, I think that we should have traded for a mid-level offensive OL (and of course, overpaid given the circumstances), an OG or an OT. Thuney could have moved to LT id we couldn't get an OT (clearly what BB concluded). With one additional OL starter type, Scar would have something to work with, and would have had a much better chance to develop the OL over the season, and then do even better when Wynn came back. We would have been in much better shape for 2020, having added an OL.
RECEIVERS AND TIGHT ENDS
The risks and hail mary's taken in these key positions were truly amazing. HOWEVER, I do NOT blame him for Sanu. He was a reasonable choice at the time. Of course we overpaid. Every team GM knew that we were in deep trouble. Sanu got injured. Ditto for LeCosse.
As an aside, MAYBE the league would have allowed AB to play for us in the playoffs. I suspect that there is a reason that no one signed him after he was cut by Bill. Personally, Gordon was exactly what we expected, a reasonable #2 or #3 or even #4 as long as he could play, hopefully until Harry was integrated into the offense. There was no reason to cut Gordon; that was a job for the league.
BOTTOM LINE FOR ME
After a a month, we should celebrate the dynasty. Perhaps, we should wait until we see who is gone.
Unless Brady stays, there will be a severe re-loading, will little cap room available. I suspect that Tom, Josh, Jules will all be gone. We will keep a couple of McCourty, McCourty, Chung, Van Noy, Collins, Roberts, and Shelton.
AS AN ASIDE
I believe that 2 changes would have made a huge difference: trading for better OL's during the season and keeping Gordon. And yes, I understand that we could have drafted many of the successful rookies, or at least some that didn't get hurt.
Aside from the Chung replacement issue that could be addressed by last year’s second round pick, the secondary is in fine shape. The front seven, not so much. You can pretty much count on one of Collins/KVN leaving, if not both, and both the inside fatties and the edge players need a fair amount of improvement.
The lack of success with those high round picks is catching up very quickly. I’m guessing that Belichick may want to trade out of the first round again due to the lack of second rounder, combined with the level of need at key positions.
I stopped after your first sentence.
Why would Brady come back? Belichick made clear just how much Bray was worth by the contract deal, and Belichick's managing of resources in acquiring OL's. After turning Brady's career over to Newhouse, Brady knew his future (if he survived healthy enough to have one). Brady owes the next couple of years to Scar, and to the offensive linemen who played with their many injuries (after all, there were no backups who even should have been active).
Apparently, Brady wanted a long-term contract last year, along with guaranteed money beyond year one. That is the contract that top veterans get. Instead, Brady was given a "prove it contract", with all the risk put on Brady. The best Brady could do was in insure that if he were to play after 2019, the patriots couldn't hold him back waking the franchise tag or the transition tag.
And, from where I sit, Brady did fine. Also, he looked better at the end. Brady's agent will look around, and see which GM's have the desire and the cap money to risk a bit of 2021 or 2022 money on Brady. There will be lots of Belichick-type one year offers.
This feels like 2006 to me, when we lost to Manning trotting out guys like Reche Caldwell, Jabar Gaffney, and the corpse of Corey Dillon.
I remember reading, on here, about how Brady had it out with Kraft in an equipment room immediately following the game, demanding more talent on offense (please give a better description of that incident if you know what I'm talking about).
The response was Moss, Stallworth, and Welker. I'm hoping for something similar. Beckham in particular, or maybe another chance for AB.
Even from Curran's article it's unclear what the key differences are between "rebuild," "reboot" and "reload." Can you help with that? "Nuke it" is clear enough. I'm guessing that "reboot" means keeping the status quo from this past season but what's the difference between "reload" and "rebuild"?
I seem to remember that the Patriots have a corporate mission statement that says “compete for a championship every year.” So I don’t see any tearing down or tanking.
They need at least two Amendola-like recievers. He was ALWAYS clutch on 3rd downs.
I thought that was “reload.” Like, “reload” for another final SB run. I was more confused with reboot and rebuild.
Even if Brady is let go, don't see re-signing 2 of the 3 top FAs (Collins, Thuney, Van Noy). I think at best only one can be afforded (Van Noy??).
There has been no consideration for the side effects of letting Brady go:
1. How many of the key players you want to retain would stay to play behind Stidham?
2. How many quality FAs would want to come here, not to play with GOAT, but with Stidham!
3. If everyone agrees the offense needs improvements, how do you start that endeavour by letting the GOAT walk?
If Brady stays, then reload like they've done in the past.
If Brady is gone, then you need to blow the entire thing up because few are staying or coming.
Lets be realistic, we saw it last offseason, Pats tried to sign several WRs and TEs that decided to go elsewhere. I believe the reasons are obvious:
1. BB is a no-nonsense tough azz coach that makes you sweat every minute you're in the building;
2. NEP are basically cheap, plus they'll discard you sooner rather than later;
Only reasons for coming to NEP:
4. Chance to win a SB;
5. Play with GOAT QB and coach.
If Brady walks, it removes 4 and 5, yet 1 thru 3 remain the same. Why would anyone want to play here? OBJ wants to play for Brady, not Stidham (been there done that).
That concern was already a factor this year — not knowing how long brady will be here. And even if Brady stays, it’s just one or two years. So, going to be a challenge.
Well that's rude haha. Those were my thoughts approaching it from the organization's perspective, not Tom's...as reload/rebuild/reboot is really an organizational decision, not TB's.
Why Brady would come back is that it could still (likely still will) his best chance to win. He knows the infrastructure, he knows the coach, he has some benefits of his longevity with the team (TB12 spot at Gillette, missing OTAs to spend time with family) that would probably not extend to a new franchise. If he considered two opportunities (say, NE or DAL) that he thought were equally likely to win the SB, then he would have to decide whether it was more important to him to win 7 with NE, or win 1 without BB. I'm not sure what he would choose - but one of them likely actually does come with less time with his family, which we know is the only thing that matters to him as much as football.
As far as contract that other top veteran QBs get, yes it is, if I was the Pats I would have bet on him to be good for 3 years and paid accordingly. I don't think it is unreasonable for the team to want to mitigate risk with a QB playing in uncharted age territory, but I also don't think it is unreasonable for Tom to expect more as he is a QB playing in uncharted accomplishment territory. If he was asking for the JG contract, that would be crazy...since it seems more likely he just wanted 3 years with a similar payment as he's always gotten, I can't really abide the team's position there. However I would disagree that it was a "prove it" deal - it gave him an $8m raise this year, $40m+ guaranteed overall, and didn't tie any money to performance like the previous deal did.
I think there are a couple ways to view the Pats roster building for 2019 - specifically with respect to the OL/TE positions, they left themselves thin behind Wynn, and not finding a way to get a legit TE was downright criminal. Some posters have spoken of this as outright negligence by Belichick as if it was intended to screw Brady into a poor performance and force him into retirement. I think that's absurd. I think it was a little bit of arrogance that they could coach up whoever they had, a little bit hoping they'd get lucky and not suffer major OL injuries (it was a solid unit come playoff time), and a little bit believing they could fix it on the fly with an in-season transaction. At WR I know that lots of air has been given to the topic already, but they just didn't hit on anyone, but did try a lot and spent resources on it. Either way I would agree that Brady did about as much as he could with the offense he was given.
I also think the play calling was as questionable as the roster building. Perhaps a new OC - whether here or elsewhere - will rejuvenate the way Brady views the game a bit. Certainly the BoB years offered a little different take on things as they adjusted to the 2TE and upped the tempo of the offense.
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