2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: vs 49ers
Pick Results: SF: 26.2% at NE: 73.8%
Sun
Oct 25th

Current Patriots Twitter Feed:

Patsgofor4

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Just say you've never watched him before? Like all this was wrong last year, saying it now is just admitting you haven't seen play or have an agenda. Or just say you don't like the player. Which is fine, I guess? But we really have to stop making things up that aren't true with all due respect.

Probably the most efficient QB in the league over the past year.



I agree that he became much more than average as a passer last year, in the regular season at least. Hopefully, his improvement in the pocket levels off, for the Patriots sake. Roman has done an incredible job developing an offense around his unique skills - I was hoping that some team would sign him as a HC in the off-season. As you suggested, he is not going to be confused with peak Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Mahomes as a traditional QB who can beat you purely with his arm but he doesn't have to be on their level in that regard, he given his absurd speed and elusiveness. He is incredibly frustrating to watch as an opposing fan and a hater of all things Ravens-related.

Having said that, he was extremely inefficient last year in the most important game of 2019-20, their home playoff loss to Tennessee, when he barely broke the 50% completion mark on 59 passing attempts. In that sense, he still has something to prove this year.

In terms of yesterday's game, Cleveland's DBs are average to begin with and they were missing Greedy Williams and Kevin Johnson at CB and potential started Grant Delpit as safety. Finally, the first clip that you posted, the completion to Andrews, had good velocity but it was slightly behind him and was a risky throw. It probably would've been intercepted by a competent DB. I wouldn't want my quarterback making that throw in most situations.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I don’t consider him the best QB in the league, he had an MVP season, sure he is good, but that doesn’t mean he is the best, I think Mahomes and Rodgers might be the best atm.
Which is still saying a lot considering Mahomes will be in the GOAT convo soon and AR is going to Canton immediately after the NFL. Wilson is also better rn.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I agree that he became much more than average as a passer last year, in the regular season at least. Hopefully, his improvement in the pocket levels off, for the Patriots sake. Roman has done an incredible job developing an offense around his unique skills - I was hoping that some team would sign him as a HC in the off-season. As you suggested, he is not going to be confused with peak Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Mahomes as a traditional QB who can beat you purely with his arm but he doesn't have to be on their level in that regard, he given his absurd speed and elusiveness. He is incredibly frustrating to watch as an opposing fan and a hater of all things Ravens-related.

Having said that, he was extremely inefficient last year in the most important game of 2019-20, their home playoff loss to Tennessee, when he barely broke the 50% completion mark on 59 passing attempts. In that sense, he still has something to prove this year.

In terms of yesterday's game, Cleveland's DBs are average to begin with and they were missing Greedy Williams and Kevin Johnson at CB and potential started Grant Delpit as safety. Finally, the first clip that you posted, the completion to Andrews, had good velocity but it was slightly behind him and was a risky throw. It probably would've been intercepted by a competent DB. I wouldn't want my quarterback making that throw in most situations.
Regarding the playoff game it wasn't his finest game but also didn't get much help from his defense. One of the first plays of the game goes tipped pass for INT. Again not his best but anyone judging him off 2 playoff games probably isn't worth listening to? Not saying that's what you're doing but "playoffs" have been brought up like its a bad thing he's been the single greatest reason they made them in the first place. He's still incredibly young. He stays healthy he'll break through.

Regarding those pass you're nitpicking here with respect. Every single QB in the league throws "off target" passes or w/e you want to call it. Literally every game from every QB and you can pick out 1-2 passes like that. If he wasn't attempting passes like that he'd get killed for being afraid to throw into tight windows or another excuse to throw at him.

I mean he threw 6 INT last year. Was like 20-24 yesterday and ...

Cleveland? I mean again if he didn't kill it he'd be knocked for struggling against poor team. I mean that's what he's supposed to do. If he struggled how many would be questioning him.

Let's be honest here, why mess about?

These are things brought up by people who didn't believe in him and are still holding out. And just don't believe in him.

Which is fine in all honesty. I just wish people would back it up when you call him "average" or say things about him as a "passer". Simply provide something. I don't think that's being confrontational or w/e. I'd argue it's quite appropriate for the discussion. I mean how many stats, plays and literally just broke it down as clear as day have I provided. It's not hard if you have a case.

I've criticized him before and have no problem doing so in the future. Let's just know what we're talking about. Again not too much to ask.
 

Patsgofor4

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Regarding the playoff game it wasn't his finest game but also didn't get much help from his defense. One of the first plays of the game goes tipped pass for INT. Again not his best but anyone judging him off 2 playoff games probably isn't worth listening to? Not saying that's what you're doing but "playoffs" have been brought up like its a bad thing he's been the single greatest reason they made them in the first place. He's still incredibly young. He stays healthy he'll break through.

Regarding those pass you're nitpicking here with respect. Every single QB in the league throws "off target" passes or w/e you want to call it. Literally every game from every QB and you can pick out 1-2 passes like that. If he wasn't attempting passes like that he'd get killed for being afraid to throw into tight windows or another excuse to throw at him.

I mean he threw 6 INT last year. Was like 20-24 yesterday and ...

Cleveland? I mean again if he didn't kill it he'd be knocked for struggling against poor team. I mean that's what he's supposed to do. If he struggled how many would be questioning him.

Let's be honest here, why mess about?

These are things brought up by people who didn't believe in him and are still holding out. And just don't believe in him.

Which is fine in all honesty. I just wish people would back it up when you call him "average" or say things about him as a "passer". Simply provide something. I don't think that's being confrontational or w/e. I'd argue it's quite appropriate for the discussion. I mean how many stats, plays and literally just broke it down as clear as day have I provided. It's not hard if you have a case.

I've criticized him before and have no problem doing so in the future. Let's just know what we're talking about. Again not too much to ask.

Dude, I praised him for most of my post. You are acting like I was attacking him. I'm tired of your passive aggressive arrogance, pretending that you are the guy with all of the answers to the test and the rest of us are amateurs who should just take every one of your posts as the gospel. You love to dismiss posters who dare to disagree with you, and apparently poster who mostly agree with you but not 100%.

"Let's just know what we're talking about. Again not too much to ask". I have a better idea: How about you go f*ck yourself? If you were so good at football analytics you would be doing that for a living rather than re-posting other peoples tweets on an NFL fan site. In reality you are just another making-money-for-nothing union hack with a lot of time on your hands.
 

DropKickFlutie

In the Starting Line-Up
Last year Lamar passed 66% completion, 36 passing TD, only 6 interceptions. That is amazing for any elite pocket passer. He won league MVP off just the pocket passing numbers, those numbers are that good.

Lamar, Mahomes, Russell Wilson are putting up incredible pocket passer numbers while also killing teams with legs.
 

lancerman

In the Starting Line-Up
Frankly, watching Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes absolutely crushing defenses left and right can be a bit depressing. Yeah, we had a great run with the GOAT, but these two QBs are really, really good. They will dominate the AFC as Brady and Manning did.
10 years ago everyone thought Brees and Rodgers would do that in the NFC
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Park Avenue suits are creaming themselves over a conference championship double-header of Wilson-Murray and Mahomes-Jackson...

Won't be watching if that's the case...Not now, not ever.
 

NG Pats Fan

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That 2018 draft...Lamar Jackson, Calvin Ridley, Nick Chubb, Courtland Sutton and DJ Moore fell to us...and we took Wynn and Sony :eek:
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Dude, I praised him for most of my post. You are acting like I was attacking him. I'm tired of your passive aggressive arrogance, pretending that you are the guy with all of the answers to the test and the rest of us are amateurs who should just take every one of your posts as the gospel. You love to dismiss posters who dare to disagree with you, and apparently poster who mostly agree with you but not 100%.

"Let's just know what we're talking about. Again not too much to ask". I have a better idea: How about you go f*ck yourself? If you were so good at football analytics you would be doing that for a living rather than re-posting other peoples tweets on an NFL fan site. In reality you are just another making-money-for-nothing union hack with a lot of time on your hands.
Such an angry post :mad::mad::mad:

I can't remember reading anything of yours that gets feeling any type of way. Please relax in your safe space.

But let's talk about it ... since you opened the door?


You brought up last year's po game, a throw to Andrews & the fact that Cleveland is Cleveland. I commented on each. That's what happens in a forum sometimes.
  • Context in the po game - Lamar was not great but a lot of people had sub par games, like the defense & luck wasn't on there side - like the tipped INT.
  • You mentioned something about a pass to Andrews that wasn't perfect. Ok. I brought the fact that literally every QB has 1-2 of those a game. And the fact that he was the only QB to target 10+ yards yesterday and whipped a "catchable" ball 90% of the time (via pff)
  • You brought up Cleveland and I simply stated he'd get criticism if he didn't perform that well.

How is that being passive aggressive or arrogant? Where are these attacks?
Idk man your post reek of insecurity, blasting off like that. No insight or rebuttal. If you disagree can't you write out a well thought out post to counter???

When I say things like "let's just know what we're talking about here" it's usually in response to something way off. Like when you said ... "If you were so good at football analytics you would be doing that for a living"

It's way off bc I have 0 interest in working in "analytics". I've never said so, my post/post history wouldn't reflect that all.

One might assume you're talking about the draft or my other post on here? Again bc I've never claimed or wanted to be the analytics guy.

Anyway I post what I know, what see and think when it comes to the game & players. That's the idea around here. I would never mention anyone's name but I've got several pm's (which I like and don't mind and like talking football) from long time and new members here telling me they enjoy my post. That I bring something different when it comes to the details in certain aspects of the game.

I'm not special. I've admitted how little I know when it comes to football numerous times. And anything I've ever learned was taught to me or I studied my butt off to learn. I'm constantly asking people questions, constantly. I'm not afraid to ask questions or be wrong. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I don't get upset when it happens and get angry and fire off garbage. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

Regarding "why aren't you doing that for a living" ... Some people love throwing this around like it's an insult. It's such a weak point if you think about it for like 5 minutes. Again you opened the door, why not?

Making real money talking, writing about sports is absolutely brutal. Good luck with that. Whether its PFF, ESPN or sites on Twitter. People are constantly getting laid off. Every 6 months you hear about it. People always advertising themselves for work. And if you're relying on Twitter which most are you're not making big bucks for the most part. Like you're giving half your stuff away on a free platform, competing with 500 other people and clicks for money. I was actually offered something like that where I'd get paid for clicks when I was thinking about writing for a minute and just wasn't interested and I had an outlet. Plus I'm just not a good writer.

It can an amazing gig depending on the situation but again it's not easy making good money for the most part. I respect that if that's what you want to do. 100%

I'm very happy doing what I do. Benefits, annuity, retirement. Good laborers are making 100K+ in Boston. Even this year amid disaster. 6-7 days a week. I'm not breaking records but I'm happy with that. Especially with no college, I'm happy and lucky.

Back to "do this for a living" ...

Just bc you "do it for a living" doesn't make you qualified or good or average.

How was Matt Millen as a GM?

Would you be taking advice from John Elway on drafting a QB?

What about Jon Gruden and Mike Mayock who said ... "If I'm a GM in the top 10 and I had to take a quarterback today, it would be Johnny Manziel," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "A lot of it is on the strength of defensive coordinators not wanting to deal with that style of play, and me buying into the kid. I'm buying into the kid as a competitor more than anything."

A huge part of the draft is knowing where talent/value/need meet up. Taking Teddy, JM top 10 is the opposite of that. No hindsight all these QB's were second round prospects but let's go a little further shall we ...

Quarterback
1. Teddy Bridgewater, Louisville
2. Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M
3. Blake Bortles, Central Florida
4. Derek Carr, Fresno State
t5. AJ McCarron, Alabama
t5. Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois

I respect Mike's opinion but when it comes to player evaluation what makes him more qualified than someone else? He played football and was on TV after talking about it. He wasn't some scout grinding it out across the country. I'm sure he's extremely knowledgeable, I'm sure of it. But he got his start off his name. Gruden said he'd take JM top 5 as well.

How have they been making picks?


How do you think Thomas Dimitroff got started? Ok he played college/Canada but that doesn't make you any good at player evaluation. His father was a scout. Dude was literally working the grounds crew in and fetching coffee in Cleveland. He definitely put in a ton of work. Definitely belongs but he had A TON of help getting & staying in the business if we're being honest.

Pioli was literally driving the NYG bus before a friend got him in touch with Bill.

Jim Nagy is another perfect example of "if you hang around long enough you'll make it".

I know more than a few people on Twitter who live at home with their parents which allows them to play draft cosplay on a free platform.

Good for those guys not taking anything away from them but there's nothing special about their background or even their performance on the job that makes them anymore qualified than someone else. They got help in and staying in.

All that really matters is if you can provide good analysis or show you can evaluate prospects or w/e it is you're trying to do. You do it well.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
That 2018 draft...Lamar Jackson, Calvin Ridley, Nick Chubb, Courtland Sutton and DJ Moore fell to us...and we took Wynn and Sony :eek:
I'd pay good money to hear any Jackson conversations.

1)We now know the Bill/Brady relationship was at worst fractured or very least, wearing thin.

2)We obviously needed a QB.

3)Had multiple 1st round picks.

4)Bill has taken a QB in like every draft. Clearly values the position.

He was sitting right there. We must have had a hard 2nd or 3rd. Just not believed he'd work here. Hope we get something as the years move on. It's insignificant or stupid to be a little ticked we missed on the chance to go from Brady > Jackson. Idk, Idk.

What do I know NG PF?
 

thecore762

In the Starting Line-Up
Which is still saying a lot considering Mahomes will be in the GOAT convo soon and AR is going to Canton immediately after the NFL. Wilson is also better rn.
Ah everyone forgets about Wilson when it comes down to elite QBs, I’d say he had a heck of a career, playing in a tough division over the years, and I’d say he might be as good as Rodgers. Guy has been taking his team deep in the playoffs and a couple pairs of Sb appearances, he revived that franchise with Lynch.
 

TinhWoodhead

In the Starting Line-Up
He looks so very poised and I agree he has dramatically improved from year one. The Ravens and Chiefs are in their own stratosphere in terms of talent and ability. TB12 or no TB12, Pats were not going to compete with either of these teams this year for making it to SB.
What makes it so painful, is I still remember that draft Screaming at the TV set for Pats to take Lamar Jackson at 29, only to be shocked and disappointed when they took Sony.

This is NOT Monday morning QBing, because many of us on this board begged for Pats to take him. Now both the Chiefs and Ravens will be strong teams for a decade or more
Polian said he was a grade A
 

SBLIII

In the Starting Line-Up
That 2018 draft...Lamar Jackson, Calvin Ridley, Nick Chubb, Courtland Sutton and DJ Moore fell to us...and we took Wynn and Sony :eek:

Wynn will be good though.

Lamar, obviously, would have been amazing. And as we will see this year, all this talk about not being able to change an offense talk was total bs.
 

SBLIII

In the Starting Line-Up
Why does it matter if he is an average passer or not? Why does it matter if the threat to run opens up the pass or vice versa? You might be able to argue that he won't be able to play efficiently that way when his prime is over but he is like 23 or 24 years old right now so that won't happen for another 5 years at the very least.

Personally I think he is a good passer, not great or average, and will improve. Considering that he basically could not complete a pass in HS, made his first real strides in college, I don't think his development is done.
 

Nehalem

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Having said that, he was extremely inefficient last year in the most important game of 2019-20, their home playoff loss to Tennessee, when he barely broke the 50% completion mark on 59 passing attempts. In that sense, he still has something to prove this year.

So far in 2 career playoff games he is worse than early career Manning :eek:

In the first 3 quarters, to ignore garbage time, of 2 playoff games he has a total of 9 points

If you want to knock Lamar Jackson. That is the knock on him
 

NG Pats Fan

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Wynn will be good though.

Lamar, obviously, would have been amazing. And as we will see this year, all this talk about not being able to change an offense talk was total bs.

we could and should have went Ridley and Jackson . Imagine?
 

Top