Post mortem: stay or go?

[venecol]

I am all for having Jakobi back if we don't plan on making a big splash at receiver. If we trade or draft a true number 1 guy then I'd feel a little better about letting him walk but he's really been our only consistent offensive player outside of Rhamondre the last couple years and we've seen how hit or miss some of the new guys have been at receiver.

I agree, if Bill isn't interested in finding an $18-20M WR1 we need to keep Meyers. Unfortunately, we may end up with neither.

There's a lot of talk about all the money Pats have for FAcy. It's down to <$37M. Although that's still a lot, it pails in comparison to CHI with >$100M who will definitely be going after WRs. Others w/ cap space similar or greater to NEP in the WR market: BAL, ATL and maybe even the NYG.

 

[Kontradiction]

Aside from Meyers, Cardona, and Peppers, I won’t be sad about any of them leaving. DMac and Slater should probably both retire.

 

[nextsuperstar]

I agree, if Bill isn't interested in finding an $18-20M WR1 we need to keep Meyers. Unfortunately, we may end up with neither.

There's a lot of talk about all the money Pats have for FAcy. It's down to <$37M. Although that's still a lot, it pails in comparison to CHI with >$100M who will definitely be going after WRs. Others w/ cap space similar or greater to NEP in the WR market: BAL, ATL and maybe even the NYG.

There really isn’t a WR1 available as a free agent. All the top WRs signed extensions. Meyers is going to get paid in part because he is one of, if not the, best free agent WR. someone will throw money at him.

if the Patriots are going to get an elite WR, it will need to be someone forcing his way off his team becuase he is looking to get paid.

 

[ivanvamp]

Meyers is good - I'm not of the belief that he's not good - but he's definitely replaceable. If he's going to get $15m, I'd much rather have a young guy to replace him. Even Wilkerson or Nixon at league minimum vs. Meyers at $15m....I like Meyers but for that money I'd let him walk.

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting to note that Meyers (as I predicted) quietly broke into the top 10 all time Patriots WR receptions list. He is now #9, right behind Randy Moss and ahead of Amendola. Pretty good company there considering that Moss and Amendola had Brady, and Meyers had Cam, a rookie QB and this dreadful season.

He is 95 catches away from passing Branch and Glenn which would make him 6th all time.

Not saying he is or is not worth a bazillion dollars but he has done a good job.

He's been a tremendous success story. He's gone from not being an NFL level player in his first season to being a legitimate producer, regardless of whether or not he needs to be in a particular system (I'm not saying he does/doesn't, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter for the purpose of my post). He deserves to be paid accordingly, and the question about amount is likely to be whether teams view him as a 2 or a 3 on a "good" offense.

 

[Thelonious]

I think you have too many "Go's." I cannot say "no thanks" unless the player is an actual burden without knowing what he would be replaced with. I don't see any guarantee that if we let Meyers go, we'd wind up with anyone better at the salary he is likely to draw. There are a number of players you have in the "go" category whom I would call "adequate." Such players are not very exciting, but absent major expenditure, there's no guarantee a replacement would meet even that modest standard. Then too, there are a couple of this year's rookies the eventual quality of whose play we do not yet know. I understand the concept, but I find it hard to decide without knowing what I might be getting instead., and it's too early to know that.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Free Agents
Meyers: Go Will cost a lot IMO - BB doesn't pay WRs. Somebody will likely outbid for him compared to our usual lowball offer.
Agholor: Go. Thank u next - it's better to develop Thornton for those deep routes and see what we've got. Agholor just never panned out.
Wynn: Go. Thank u next - Sadly he was just a waste of cap space. OOF. LT is a huge need in the upcoming draft for us.
Ekuale: Stay - He had some surprisingly good moments. If we can get him cheap, yes keep him.
Palardy: Go. Had a good game yesterday but he was terrible this season. - Time to draft a new punter?
Slowjuan: Go. Thank u next - what an absolute waste of a 2nd round pick.

Agree with most of your takes. I'd say we should look at an expensive WR in free agency. BB and the Patriots still suck at drafting/developing wideouts for whatever reason. This is probably the most likely place to obtain that impatct #1 wideout. Mac Jones might not be the guy but at least give him some weapons. Or maybe our new QB will come in the draft, this is less likely but I wouldn't be against it.

LT is obviously a huge need. It's most cost effective to go for OL in the draft, and the Patriots usually hit here, Wynn being the exception, he was a mediocre pick overall and absolutely snowballed into dumpster fire territory in his option year season with us. 10 million dollars of Kraft's money burned for nothing.

 

[mgteich]

Meyers is good - I'm not of the belief that he's not good - but he's definitely replaceable. If he's going to get $15m, I'd much rather have a young guy to replace him. Even Wilkerson or Nixon at league minimum vs. Meyers at $15m....I like Meyers but for that money I'd let him walk.

Aside from Meyers, Cardona, and Peppers, I won’t be sad about any of them leaving. DMac and Slater should probably both retire.

We need Jon Jones, our best CB by far.

And yes, top CB's are worth a lot of money.

SHORT PLAN
Re-sign Jones, Peppers and Myers
Draft a two OT's in the top 4 picks.

 

[PatsFan2]

Agree with most of your takes. I'd say we should look at an expensive WR in free agency. BB and the Patriots still suck at drafting/developing wideouts for whatever reason. This is probably the most likely place to obtain that impatct #1 wideout. Mac Jones might not be the guy but at least give him some weapons. Or maybe our new QB will come in the draft, this is less likely but I wouldn't be against it.

LT is obviously a huge need. It's most cost effective to go for OL in the draft, and the Patriots usually hit here, Wynn being the exception, he was a mediocre pick overall and absolutely snowballed into dumpster fire territory in his option year season with us. 10 million dollars of Kraft's money burned for nothing.

Don't forget the $22Mill that was burnt on Agholor and Jonnu to be continued...

 

[venecol]

There really isn’t a WR1 available as a free agent. All the top WRs signed extensions. Meyers is going to get paid in part because he is one of, if not the, best free agent WR. someone will throw money at him.

if the Patriots are going to get an elite WR, it will need to be someone forcing his way off his team becuase he is looking to get paid.

Agree but what WR1 is going to force their way off his team to come play here? It'll be about the $$ just like in '21. Pats jumped at Henry, Smith, Agholor & Bourne right out of the gate, going crazy (like never before) with record breaking guaranteed $$. Bourne said at the time nobody offered anything close to what he got from NEP. Same goes for the rest. Word was it was a smart play given the cap situation at the time. Problem I see is, like you say, all the good WRs already cut their deals this season, and there's way more competition in '23 with a reduced pool.

I'm not expecting much out of FAcy for a WR. Probably an Agholor type WR2 player. That's why a trade for Cooks seems doable given our history w/ Caserio and Cooks having played here before. I just don't remember how he left. Was it on good terms? Can't recall.

 

[nextsuperstar]

Agree but what WR1 is going to force their way off his team to come play here? It'll be about the $$ just like in '21. Pats jumped at Henry, Smith, Agholor & Bourne right out of the gate, going crazy (like never before) with record breaking guaranteed $$. Bourne said at the time nobody offered anything close to what he got from NEP. Same goes for the rest. Word was it was a smart play given the cap situation at the time. Problem I see is, like you say, all the good WRs already cut their deals this season, and there's way more competition in '23 with a reduced pool.

I'm not expecting much out of FAcy for a WR. Probably an Agholor type WR2 player. That's why a trade for Cooks seems doable given our history w/ Caserio and Cooks having played here before. I just don't remember how he left. Was it on good terms? Can't recall.

Yes. Wide receivers recently, including last year, seem to only force trades to sign new massive deals. Hill, AJ Brown etc. all left teams hoping to get paid not because they were going to a better situation.

IIRC, Cooks did not leave on bad terms. They just flipped him because they could get a good draft pick.

 

[venecol]

Yes. Wide receivers recently, including last year, seem to only force trades to sign new massive deals. Hill, AJ Brown etc. all left teams hoping to get paid not because they were going to a better situation.

IIRC, Cooks did not leave on bad terms. They just flipped him because they could get a good draft pick.

Worked out for Hill, AJBrown, & Kirk. Not so much for Hollywood & Adams.

 

[Kontradiction]

We need Jon Jones, our best CB by far.

And yes, top CB's are worth a lot of money.

SHORT PLAN
Re-sign Jones, Peppers and Myers
Draft a two OT's in the top 4 picks.

I don’t think Jones is going to get the kind of money he thinks he’s worth here.

 

[Hyped]

1) Bryant is good value for our #6 CB.
2) Jones will be re-signed.
3) McCourty has a decision to make. He certainly can play well enough to part of our rotation at safety.
4) McDermott should be signed for camp. He is already a backup RT who can start. Let him prove his value in camp. With an actual OL coach, he should be fine as a backup RT or even as our swing OT.
5) Yup, move Trent Brown back to RT, and have him and Onwenu block the sun on running plays.
6) Our number #1 and #2 need is at LT. The GM SHOULD be able to deal with that (after finding a new OL coach.
===============
WIDE RECEIVER
CURRENT: Myers, Parker, Agholor, Bourne, Thornton

DISCUSSION
You seem to want to blow this up. You don't re-sign Myers. Parker isn't on your radar. How many times should the team try this and then ne surprised when they are not able to find two new players who can compete?

You want to COUNT ON a new free agent and a draftee wide receiver. What is our likelihood of finding a draftee better than Parker? How likely is it that we find a free agent that will produce as much as Myers. I suppose we could sign two and hope for one success (as we did with Bourne and Agholor). I suggest that "over-paying" by a couple million for Myers will be better for the wide receiver corps.

Sure, try to find a 2nd level bargain free agent WR. Sure, take a fling on another draftee. HOWEVER, we should start with a solid WR corps. I really don't likely your idea of Thornton, Bourne and pray for rain (pray that someone else can produce).

Yeah, I forgot Parker.

I would rather this:

Parker, Bourne, Thorton, FA WR, Wilkerson, Draft pick, and Webb

THAN

Meyers making 15M+, Parker, Bourne, Thorton, Wilkerson, Draft pick, and Webb

Plus, we are getting Ty Montgomery back, seeing Pierre Strong possibly grow into the 3rd down back role, and for the sake of god…hopefully utilize Henry/Smith a lot more….hell their cap numbers demand it….

 

[Triumph]

The Pats need a big tall jump ball WR like George Pickens.

Brady used to throw the ball up and let Moss get it to the tune of 23 TDs in 1 season. Throwing the ball up is pretty much Jones whole deep ball MO in a nut shell.

I just cant figure out the way the Pats do things sometimes. BB knows that Gronk was a nightmare matchup in the passing game because of his size. Big target pass receivers are mismatch for small DBs everyday of the week.

 

[PatsFan2]

The Pats need a big tall jump ball WR like George Pickens.

Brady used to throw the ball up and let Moss get it to the tune of 23 TDs in 1 season. Throwing the ball up is pretty much Jones whole deep ball MO in a nut shell.

I just cant figure out the way the Pats do things sometimes. BB knows that Gronk was a nightmare matchup in the passing game because of his size. Big target pass receivers are mismatch for small DBs everyday of the week.

Oh boy my Binky you can see on tape how he attacks the football some things you just can't teach and George Pickens already have it. Side note they thought they were getting that in no separation Harry you could clearly see that on tape but BB binoculars told him otherwise.

 

[jdlboot14]

I think if you're keeping Mac, you have to keep Meyers. I personally love Meyers, and think he still hasn't hit his potential.
What's the point of paying another FA WR to come and start over (like Agholor @ $10M+ /yr), just offer Meyers a ~$48M / 4yr deal, with team friendly structure and protections. I think Meyers wants to stay, and we need him. (He's not getting WR1 money)

Meyers, Parker, Bourne, Thornton would be great for another year of growing. Along with one more true slot FA. (ie: Landry, Hardman) both these guys seem unused and looking for a new place to break out.

 

[PatsFan2]

I think if you're keeping Mac, you have to keep Meyers. I personally love Meyers, and think he still hasn't hit his potential.
What's the point of paying another FA WR to come and start over (like Agholor @ $10M+ /yr), just offer Meyers a ~$48M / 4yr deal, with team friendly structure and protections. I think Meyers wants to stay, and we need him. (He's not getting WR1 money)

Meyers, Parker, Bourne, Thornton would be great for another year of growing. Along with one more true slot FA. (ie: Landry, Hardman) both these guys seem unused and looking for a new place to break out.

On the WR's a guy I like in FA is DJ Chark he came on at the end of the year for Detroit after some injuries early on. I think the Team who gets him in FA this time around is getting a gem.

 

[nextsuperstar]

Worked out for Hill, AJBrown, & Kirk. Not so much for Hollywood & Adams.

Let’s see if it works out for Jerry Jeudy.

 

[Triumph]

Hunter Henry needs to go.

Pats save 10 million. 500 yards and 2 TDs is not what were looking for. Draft a big target TE

Jonnu cant go. 19 million in dead cap money if he is gone.