Perfect Prospect Fits for NE

[mayoclinic]

From Ethan Hammerman:

Valles across from Chandler Jones...

https://twitter.com/Ethanhamm/status/552607604724473857

 

[manxman2601]

There are very few players who can play the 3, 5, 7, and 9 techs and play 3-4 OLB. Chandler Jones and Ziggy Ansah probably come closest. A healthy Dominique Easley might have the athleticism to do it, though little experience playing OLB. There are some intriguing guys like DeForest Buckner, Danielle Hunter (if he bulks up), but mostly I think you either optimize for a 3, 5, 7 tech or a 7, 9, OLB. I don't know the answer - I like both types of players. I can see it playing out either way.

I didn't say anything about playing 3,5,7,9 and OLB. I agree that you optimise for one or the other.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Julian Edelman, our greatest PR return guy ever (sorry Troy), is a bonafide 100 catch-a-year Welker guy now. Can he still rip one off? You bet your ass. Would you rather him catching 1st downs should be the real question. How much longer can he rip off punt return runs and catch 100 balls? Do you really think he can do both until he's 32? He'll deteriorate. Time for him to pass his ST knowledge onto the next dude.

So happens there is an abundance of those return guys in the draft this year. I've got 2 names for you:Tyler Lockett of Kansas St. and Ameer Abdullah of Nebraska. These 2 kids are all-world and should be high on the list. Ever heard of all-purpose yards?
http://www.fbsstatistics.com/careerallpurposeyards.htm

Those stats do not include the latest Bowl Games. Ameer is now #9 and Tyler #25. Bill puts a higher premium on guys that are "football players". I love Lockett. From a football family. Great WR's don't have to be over 6-4. When it comes to the draft everyone thinks no one can be successful unless they have Gronk or Megatron measurables. ********. #8 on that list:Kevin Faulk. You know. Kevin Faulk. The only guy Bill kept on his roster from the Pete Carroll era? Remember? Goodbye everyone else.

http://www.fbsstatistics.com/careerallpurposeyards.htm

Yes, I want Lockett. 2nd Rd. #64. I'll be fine with Abdullah if he's gone. Great RB.



http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=204970
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/cfb/players.asp?id=201669

Fire away. We need return guys. Danny's as good as gone. Julien's going to be 29. WR? RB?

I just named them. I know the draft geeks here ABSOLUTELY HATE production and any name noteriety.

Finding a diamond in the rough is not worth ignoring a diamond staring you in the face.

"Sometimes the gold you seek lies directly in front of you, but the cheaper shiny ingots of afar are to hard to ignore".

 

[manxman2601]

I just named them. I know the draft geeks here ABSOLUTELY HATE production and any name noteriety.

This is conpletely wrong. "Draft Geeks" are only interested in how a player projects to the NFL. It has nothing to do with hating production and everything to do with understanding that production at the college level is not, on its own, a particularly good predictor of NFL production.

And FWIW, this particular 'draft geek' was raving about Abdullah months ago so it's not as though we've been neglectful.

 

[Off The Grid]

And FWIW, this particular 'draft geek' was raving about Abdullah months ago so it's not as though we've been neglectful.

Abdullah?? Don't like'm.

Too productive.

 

[OhExaulted1]

This is conpletely wrong. "Draft Geeks" are only interested in how a player projects to the NFL. It has nothing to do with hating production and everything to do with understanding that production at the college level is not, on its own, a particularly good predictor of NFL production.

And FWIW, this particular 'draft geek' was raving about Abdullah months ago so it's not as though we've been neglectful.

Does production mean anything? The Pac-12 beat the SEC 6-2 in bowl games. It can't be right based on CBS Rankings?

Pay your money to your whore sites. It means nothing.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Abdullah?? Don't like'm.

Too productive.

Go on, continue...,

 

[OhExaulted1]

Abdullah?? Don't like'm.

Too productive.

Show me more Grid. We need a guy like this. So far, you're come back SUCKS!

 

[OhExaulted1]

I get it. You guys want the stereo-typical 6-3 or 4 split WR who's the next Rnady Moss-Jerry Rice. I want the next Kevin Faulk-Troy Brown.

That's the disconnect.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Abdullah?? Don't like'm.

Too productive.

When you talk him up?

 

[mayoclinic]

I didn't say anything about playing 3,5,7,9 and OLB. I agree that you optimise for one or the other.

I never said you did. I was projecting my view of what the ideal DE in our defense could do. Chandler Jones can do all of those things - not equally well, but to a decent extent - which is one reason he is such a good fit. Ziggy Ansah is another with such rare athleticism and versatility.

One reason that I like Danielle Hunter is that he has played inside for LSU, and has "combat skills" that are well beyond his size. Bulk him up to 265+ and he could be another Chandler Jones. But most guys who are strong enough and long enough to play that role aren't going to be as explosive.

 

[Off The Grid]

Show me more Grid. We need a guy like this. So far, you're come back SUCKS!

 

[OhExaulted1]

 

[OhExaulted1]

 

[mayoclinic]

Starting to think that defensively, aside from Dante Fowler who strikes me as the best Patriot fit, Owamagbe Odighizuwa is the next best defensive fit. Plays 3, 5 and 7 techs and probably could stand up in a limited role, is very good against the run and rushes extremely well inside. He, in particular, and Corey Crawford are two of my favourite DL prospects in this draft.

Dane Brugler loves Odighizuwa:

https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/552741712570118144

 

[mayoclinic]

From Ethan Hammerman:

https://twitter.com/Ethanhamm/status/552607604724473857

More from Hammerman on Max Valles:

Max Valles is going to end up competing for my #2 EDGE position with Randy Gregory.

https://twitter.com/Ethanhamm/status/552679852462325760

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think Abdullah would get over-powered in pass protection. I'm sure he'd eventually figure it out. Just like K. Faulk. In about 3-4 years. We'd have to draft Abdullah in the second round if we want him. I'd want a little bigger back if picking one early. My preference would be Mike Davis.

I'm a PSU fan. So, I'm not a Big 10 hater. But, does it concern anyone that all of these Big 10 backs had great seasons? Not a lot of speed in the back 7 in that league right now. Allows for more big plays and inflated stats. Just my .02.

Agree about the bigger receiver. Brady doesn't like to throw the jump ball. Why bother getting someone who specializes in it. I'd rather have some speed to put outside. If you have a bunch formation on the right with Gronk, LaFell and Edelman. The whole defense is gonna be looking that way. If you have a wr with speed, the corner on the other side has to back off knowing he might not get any help. Won't need a big, stud who gets off the LOS. The smaller receiver can because of his deep-threat speed. Not sure I have a binky yet. I think R. Greene -FSU might do the trick. But, he'll go before I want to draft a wr.

 

[manxman2601]

I never said you did. I was projecting my view of what the ideal DE in our defense could do. Chandler Jones can do all of those things - not equally well, but to a decent extent - which is one reason he is such a good fit. Ziggy Ansah is another with such rare athleticism and versatility.

One reason that I like Danielle Hunter is that he has played inside for LSU, and has "combat skills" that are well beyond his size. Bulk him up to 265+ and he could be another Chandler Jones. But most guys who are strong enough and long enough to play that role aren't going to be as explosive.

I think the disconnect between you and I on this is that this team doesn't really utilise fluid edge players. This season, Ninkovich played 112 coverage snaps and Chadler Jones/Akeem Ayers played 60. Between all three, that's 10 per game. Being stout and able to pressure the QB seem to be more important a trait than fluidity, at least that's how I see the current defense. Any fluidity in space is more important to the inside linebackers rather than the edge guys. Of course this might change but, at least for me, this defense needs people that can pressure the QB from three or four man rushes without sacrificing against the run and whilst also being able to contain the pocket.

I'm not saying you are wrong to get excited by the likes of Valles or Hunter, go for it. My initial premise was simply that I think a prospect like Odighizuwa fits the current defense really well. He's a plug and play guy.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think the disconnect between you and I on this is that this team doesn't really utilise fluid edge players. This season, Ninkovich played 112 coverage snaps and Chadler Jones/Akeem Ayers played 60. Between all three, that's 10 per game. Being stout and able to pressure the QB seem to be more important a trait than fluidity, at least that's how I see the current defense. Any fluidity in space is more important to the inside linebackers rather than the edge guys. Of course this might change but, at least for me, this defense needs people that can pressure the QB from three or four man rushes without sacrificing against the run and whilst also being able to contain the pocket.

I'm not saying you are wrong to get excited by the likes of Valles or Hunter, go for it. My initial premise was simply that I think a prospect like Odighizuwa fits the current defense really well. He's a plug and play guy.

I go back and forth all the time, and frequently you end up favoring exactly the type of player that I would formerly have jumped all over. Last year you (and others) sold me that we could benefit from a disruptive interior presence, and I moved away from guys like Ra'Shede Hageman and Stephon Tuitt, who had previously been extremely high on my list. Similarly, I had previously favored guys who were much stronger as "base ends" compared with more fluid edge players. I don't know which way BB will go - I have something of a gut feel (fancy term for "guess") and I have a sense of where I'd like to see the defense head, but that's all. I'll be very curious to see which kind of edge player the Pats prefer. It's not that I don't like Odighizuwa or even bigger guys like DeForest Buckner (MAJOR lust) and Mario Edwards, but for now I'm going to stick with favoring more fluid edge guys. I'll be thrilled with any number of guys who BB could draft, so it's not really a case of liking one and not liking the other.

 

[Off The Grid]

Actually, I'm going with the "Point & Laugh at your Psychotic BreakDown" ComeBack.

The only one who doesn't know it is you.