Pats have engaged in TRADE TALKS for Isaiah Wynn

[ashley]

Reports have also come out recently that Onwenu has been playing really well as of late at RG and in fact has been our best O-lineman. Do we want to move him again and weaken that position? I guess it comes down to what combination is better: Onwenu/Wynn or Ferentz-Hambright/Onwenu.
I would be a little concerned with an interior of Strong/Andrews/Ferentz. Not ideal in my book.

 

[slash83]

I understand what you're saying, but then who do we put at RG? I was hoping Hines was the guy, but he got off to a late start, none of the other backups inside seem to have stepped up.

Honestly I don't know, what I do know is Onwenu has been a better RT than RG. Can Wynn even play RT? He sure as heck hasn't practiced or played much to date.

 

[Ring 6]

Who cares which injuries are chronic or not? You consider Wynn reliable and good. I don't.



Patriots signed 34y/o Brian Waters on the eve of the season and he did fine. Even so if they find a solid vet who has a track record of reliability and consistent performance and he needs a week to get up to speed then fine.

Because injuries are either chronic or just bad luck.
Chronic injuries make an unreliable player. Bad injury luck does not.
Wynn grades out as an average starting OT. That is far better than what’s next in line.
One example in over 20 years is an anomaly not a plan to win.

There isn’t a Brian Waters available right now.

 

[Ring 6]

Reports have also come out recently that Onwenu has been playing really well as of late at RG and in fact has been our best O-lineman. Do we want to move him again and weaken that position? I guess it comes down to what combination is better: Onwenu/Wynn or Ferentz-Hambright/Onwenu.
I would be a little concerned with an interior of Strong/Andrews/Ferentz. Not ideal in my book.

There is a very simple answer to this question.
If Wynn is on the roster he is 100% absolutely positively starting.
So getting rid of him weakens the team. Unnecessarily.

 

[jimnance]

Anyway I just wish we did this during the draft process. Timing and consequences are worse now.

That's it in a nutshell.
If Wynn is traded now,the Pats offense will struggle much worse than it is. Also not good for Mac's continued good health.
Some posters here seem to either forget or just not know that continuity is the single most important trait if a successful ol-even above talent. The best ols have always been the ones that kept the same guys the longest. Anyone with even a sliver of knowledge of how ols work understands why this true.
Wynn has been hurt a bit but he's head and shoulders netter than anyone else on the roster who would replace him.
And a trade for a new guy would be even worse. Would take that guy all season to mesh with the other 4.
I don't necessarily agree with Wynns extension, but the time to trade Wynn where its a benefit to the Pats is long past.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Because injuries are either chronic or just bad luck.
Chronic injuries make an unreliable player. Bad injury luck does not.

You can categorize injuries any way you want. Bad luck, structurally not strong, soft-tissue, conditioning, technique....he is oft-injured and unreliable. Period.

Wynn grades out as an average starting OT.

Run blocking, sure. Pass blocking? 6 sacks and 28 pressures allowed...plus 9 penalties. Meh.

That is far better than what’s next in line.
One example in over 20 years is an anomaly not a plan to win.

There isn’t a Brian Waters available right now.

You are dead against the team exploring options. That makes zero sense. Hes been hurt in TC. He missed the playoff game.

I think everyone would agree a healthy, reliable, focused Wynn is better than anyone on the current roster.

The problem is that is not reality.

 

[TheRainMaker]

The best tackle in the league not named Trent Williams is also undersized and often injured but I doubt most here don't even know his name. Injuries suck.

Anyway I just wish we did this during the draft process. Timing and consequences are worse now.

I'd like to know who this mystery guy is as I've looked around and I'm not seeing anyone that fits your criteria.

 

[Lavictoire]

That Dallas injury is just what we needed to move Wynn now!

 

[jah]

I'd like to know who this mystery guy is as I've looked around and I'm not seeing anyone that fits your criteria.

Bakhtiari I think.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bakhtiari I think.

That's what I was thinking, but he's not undersized standing at 6'5''.

 

[*ChungFu*]

It isn't obvious that they are still looking to move Wynn. That wish may have ended a while ago. As someone else mentioned earlier, the move to RT could very well have been intended to help Strange. Had Brown been left at RT and Wynn/Strange worked through any perceived early struggles, a few problems could have been avoided. May even still be worked out. Unfortunately we are looking at compounded problems that could linger well into the season. BB has his work cut out for him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'd like to know who this mystery guy is as I've looked around and I'm not seeing anyone that fits your criteria.

 

[zydecochris]

RW, if the Cowboys are interested in Wynn and we're open to a trade offer, what do you think he could bring back in a trade?
If the Cowboys offered a 5th in next year's draft, would you do that?

Although nobody is a bigger Mac fan than me, he is still only a second year player and I think it behoves the Patriots to try to make his way as smooth as possible in his formative years. Thus, I haven't really been that hot on trading Wynn and crossing our fingers that: i) injury prone players line Cajuste and Brown will remain injury-free; and/or ii) relying on unproven (if perhaps promising over-the-long-term) players like Russey and Hambright. Having relatively new players at most of the OL positions (while implementing a new system to boot) with unproven back-ups does not sound like putting your new second year QB in a position to be successful.

....Unless, we could somehow improve our OL depth with a Wynn trade. In several articles (such as: CowboyTradeCandidates ) 2019 third-round pick Connor McGovern is listed as a top trade candidate, because he is in the last year of his rookie deal, and although he has been a solid player he isn't expected to be a starter because he has this year's first year Pick Tyler Smith (not to be confused with long time standout LT Tyron Smith who has suffered a major injury) at LG and Zack Martin at RG.

Assuming that first year pick Tyler Smith is not a candidate to fill in for the now-injured LT Tyron Smith (talk about confusing!) how about Wynn for McGovern? Both are on the last year of their contract, so after the year each can be let go or re-signed. Wynn is a stop gap replacement for the injured LT Tyron Smith, and presumably he would be a better option than any other free agent LT available at this point to the Cowboys. And McGovern would seem to be be a more reliable and higher-upside back-up than guys like Ferentz. If someone like Cajuste gets injured we could conceivably move Onwenu to RT and plug in McGovern at RG. McGovern is still on his rookie deal, so that Patriots would save some $$. If McGovern performs only "ok", we let him go after a year, if he looks amazing we re-sign him (he is still only 24, and presumably improving).

Given Jerry's tendency to make panicky short term decisions, why not?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

That's what I was thinking, but he's not undersized standing at 6'5''.

Bak is 6'4 310 34 arms. Almost the same size as Wynn.

 

[Ring 6]

You can categorize injuries any way you want. Bad luck, structurally not strong, soft-tissue, conditioning, technique....he is oft-injured and unreliable. Period.


Run blocking, sure. Pass blocking? 6 sacks and 28 pressures allowed...plus 9 penalties. Meh.


You are dead against the team exploring options. That makes zero sense. Hes been hurt in TC. He missed the playoff game.

I think everyone would agree a healthy, reliable, focused Wynn is better than anyone on the current roster.

The problem is that is not reality.

Categorizing it matters because we are considering the likelihood going forward.
Parker has had the same injury recur a bunch of times. He is more like to be injured. Should we dump him? Trent Brown has been less reliable than Wynn should we dump him? Jennings missed more than half his career. Damien Harris misses games every season.

6 sacks for a starting LT is far from bad.

You seem to think that having your best player at the position for whatever number of games plus his backup for games he misses is worse than playing the backup full time.

There is no reason to believe he won’t be healthy by opening day, he is as reliable as any player going forward despite the bad luck of his past (unless you can identify a chronic injury likely to repeat) and questioning his focus is just bs speculation.

Assume he is as injury prone as Trent Brown and only plays 9 games. He is better than who would be next. 9 is better than 0.

I am all for improving the team. What I am dead set against is making the team worse. Trading Wynn makes the team worse, that is obvious.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Bak is 6'4 310 34 arms. Almost the same size as Wynn.

How would nobody know who a 2 time first team All Pro, a 3 time 2nd team All Pro, 3 time Pro Bowl player and 2nd highest paid T is?

Eh, he was my choice as he is the "smallest" and most injury prone of the top LT's, but ruled him out as what I stated above. The complaint was Wynn's height, so I was looking for someone in that 6'2" range.

 

[Patsgofor4]

He is 6' - 2"

Without searching, he must be the shortest LT in the NFL. I met Willie Roaf and he is a mountain. At that time he had not given up a sack in that season.

He measured 6’2” 3/4 pre-draft so closer to 6’3” than 6’2” but you do you and make sh*t up to suit your argument. He is essentially the same size as Beechum.

Yes, he is an undersized tackle but is also an effective one when healthy and focused, due to his excellent agility for a 310 lb. human.

Per PFF, Wynn ranks in the 88th percentile of all qualifying tackles in run-blocking grade in gap schemes since 2019.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Categorizing it matters because we are considering the likelihood going forward.
Parker has had the same injury recur a bunch of times. He is more like to be injured. Should we dump him? Trent Brown has been less reliable than Wynn should we dump him? Jennings missed more than half his career. Damien Harris misses games every season.

6 sacks for a starting LT is far from bad.

You seem to think that having your best player at the position for whatever number of games plus his backup for games he misses is worse than playing the backup full time.

There is no reason to believe he won’t be healthy by opening day, he is as reliable as any player going forward despite the bad luck of his past (unless you can identify a chronic injury likely to repeat) and questioning his focus is just bs speculation.

Assume he is as injury prone as Trent Brown and only plays 9 games. He is better than who would be next. 9 is better than 0.

I am all for improving the team. What I am dead set against is making the team worse. Trading Wynn makes the team worse, that is obvious.

It doesn't matter. If an employee is missing large chunks of work due to a variety of ailments related/unrelated and is a mediocre performer a decision needs to be made.

Moving Mike to RT and adding (if they can get one) a solid RG does not make the team worse.

You already seem to think Wynn will be a solid RT. Hes never played it. We have no idea if he will or not.

 

[mgteich]

Apparently, the answer to weakness in the OL corp is to trade one of our top 6 OL's.

 

[bresna]

This is will make the talks heat up, Unload him on Jerrah

This injury could easily be a career-ending one. They are operating on him to reattach his hamstring to his knee. That's a tough injury for a lineman to fully recover from.