Patriots Front 7

[PatsFan2]

I hope Shelton plays next week, having him on the field can’t make the run defense worse can it?

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[maineman209]

I hope Shelton plays next week, having him on the field can’t make the run defense worse can it?

Roberts missing 87% of the snaps on Sunday (thigh injury) probably hurt some. Chung screwing up his shoulder during the game probably didn't help, either.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Then there are second-level values. In 2015, the Pats also ended up with two guys who were very god special-teamers for three seasons, and drafted a guy in the late sixth who they flipped a year later for a future 5th-rounder.

I've said this before but I go by what HoF GM Ron Wolff says which is if a team can land 2 starters and 2 backups per draft they are ahead of the game.

 

[italian pat patriot]

i am too very disappointed about our front seven and i agree that Flowers is an exception...at least we have a good secondary...let's hope we will be able somehow to be better now that it will become cruacial time...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lets wait and see with Wynn the Patriots have a horrible history with Injured Rookies in the BB era.

Sure but even w/o Wynn thats 3 players who are good from last year's draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

Bill has been putting more of an emphasis on drafting offensive players since that is the direction the league is heading.

As I've shown repeatedly, that is not true. Drafting post-2010 (The Gronk/AHern draft), and not counting this year's injury plagued group:

First round: 5 picks, 4 defense
Second round: 8 picks, 5 defense
Third round: 11 picks, 6 defense
Fourth round: 9 picks, 2 defense
Fifth round: 4 picks, 1 defense
Sixth round: 11 picks, 7 defense
Seventh round: 9 picks, 6 defense

So, out of a total of 57 draft picks from 2011-2017, 31 (54%) have been on defense. Also, out of 23 draft picks taken in the top 3 rounds during that span, 15 (65%) have been on defense. This team has gone defense more than offense in every round outside of the 4th and 5th.

Even this last draft was just a 5-4 split to the offense, with 3 of the top 5 draftees being defensive players.

 

[mgteich]

Apparently our Front Six is awful, and the defense should have allowed PITT many fewer than 17 points.

Folks are saying that we have among the worst Front Six corps in the NFL. We definitely need upgrades (we always do, and we have lots of top draft choices)

LB: In what world are Van Noy and Hightower the among the worst pair of LB's in the league. We have been playing 2 LB's for years. Yes, we'll draft another youngster. Would Van Noy, Hightower, Bentley and a top draftee or two really be terrible?

DE: Flowers and Clayborne/Wise
Is this really among the worst set in the NFL? Are we in terrible shape if we decide to pay Flowers?

DT: Brown/Shelton, Guy/Butler
Clearly, we need help.

BOTTOM LINE
We need to re-sign one of our top free agents (or replace) and we need an upgrade at NT.

 

[Deus Irae]

Apparently our Front Six is awful, and the defense should have allowed PITT many fewer than 17 points.

Pittsburgh was only forced to punt twice. The two reasons the Steelers didn't put more points on the board:

• Roethlisberger threw 2 awful interceptions (at the NE 24 and 41), neither of which had anything to do with the front 6.
• Missed field goal.

So, perhaps your continuing passive aggressive approach to trying to exonerate the defense, and particularly the front 6, is not the way to go.

 

[DSting]

I really thought a lot of yesterday's problems were on the Dline. Rberger was fitting passes into incredibly tight windows--good coverage--but he could because there was no pressure. In order to get pressure, we had to blitz, which always leaves holes somewhere else. Our Dline was getting turned and moved on nearly every running play. Edge was often set, but so far upfield that it spread out the front to create gaping holes. Secondary coverage was pretty good against a talented group, but then you're trying to stop the run with a light front. Unless the front 6 do a great job, and they didn't, the RB is into the secondary. Happened all game long. Modern emphasis on passing means base is now nickel, placing much more value on Dline and versatile LBs--they have to do more, and it's unfortunately our weakest link.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Apparently our Front Six is awful, and the defense should have allowed PITT many fewer than 17 points.

Not sure what else it will take for you to change your mind. The Pats are setting historic lows with their run defense and their sacks are among the worst in the NFL.

LB - they need more sideline to sideline speed.

DE - Regardless of whether they sign Flowers, they need to address the other side of the line. Clayborne has reached Steve Martin status as he gave up on the ball carrier when he passed him by on the edge. His effort shown on the instant replay was disgusting. Wise Jr. is nothing more than a rotational guy and gets beat on the edge routinely.

As @Deus Irae said, the Front 6 did nothing to force those turnovers. Fat Ben has been good for those stupid passes almost every week for his entire career.

 

[PatsFan2]

Bentley played a few games of half decent play and people are convinced he’s a long term option. It’s very strange.

Some even think Elandon Roberts was missed. Homers would say anything to justify Horrible Drafting. So if BB Drafts a literal pig and it makes an occasional Tackle they would say it's good pick.

 

[mgteich]

Everyone agrees that we need lots of 2019 upgrades on the DL.

And sure, we will use one of top 4 picks on a LB to add to Van Noy, Hightower and Bentley, and 2 on the DL.

And we will sing or re-sign 2 free agent DE's.
===============
I guess that not enough for you.

Not sure what else it will take for you to change your mind. The Pats are setting historic lows with their run defense and their sacks are among the worst in the NFL.

LB - they need more sideline to sideline speed.

DE - Regardless of whether they sign Flowers, they need to address the other side of the line. Clayborne has reached Steve Martin status as he gave up on the ball carrier when he passed him by on the edge. His effort shown on the instant replay was disgusting. Wise Jr. is nothing more than a rotational guy and gets beat in the edge routinely.

As @Deus Irae said, the Front 6 did nothing to force those turnovers. Fat Ben has been good for those stupid passes almost every week for his entire career.

 

[captain stone]

Please list all of the bad DL draft picks that add up to “failed miserably” for years.

Missing on both Easley and Brown seems to be where he wasted the DL draft capital.

And don't forget the eminently predictable whiff of Vinnie Valentine.

At the time, the Pats had only Branch and Siliga at DT, having lost Wilfork in FA. Except for Grady Jarrett, all the rest of the DTs taken after Brown (at#32) in the 2015 draft have produced considerably less value...

Eddie Goldman says hi.

 

[Deus Irae]

Everyone agrees that we need lots of 2019 upgrades on the DL.

And sure, we will use one of top 4 picks on a LB to add to Van Noy, Hightower and Bentley, and 2 on the DL.

And we will sing or re-sign 2 free agent DE's.
===============
I guess that not enough for you.

You assured us all that Danny Shelton was the fix.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I've said this before but I go by what HoF GM Ron Wolff says which is if a team can land 2 starters and 2 backups per draft they are ahead of the game.

The term "starter" is relative though, right?

 

[Love The Drake]

You assured us all that Danny Shelton was the fix.

Shelton has been a surprising disappointment I really was one of the posters who felt we solidified that positon with a great trade.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Everyone agrees that we need lots of 2019 upgrades on the DL.

And sure, we will use one of top 4 picks on a LB to add to Van Noy, Hightower and Bentley, and 2 on the DL.

And we will sing or re-sign 2 free agent DE's.
===============
I guess that not enough for you.

Realistically, it's going to be very difficult to fix all the issues on the D-line and LB because they also have issues on offense. They may have to let Flowers walk in order to help balance out their needs on both sides of the ball.

 

[ashley]

We can't afford to let Flowers walk...Without him, our d-line is bottom 3 in the league if not lower.

Realistically, it's going to be very difficult to fix all the issues on the D-line and LB because they also have issues on offense. They may have to let Flowers walk in order to help balance out their needs on both sides of the ball.

 

[TheRainMaker]

We can't afford to let Flowers walk...Without him, our d-line is bottom 3 in the league if not lower.

True, but it really depends on what he can command on the market. I'm in the camp where I wouldn't want to pay him 15+ million a year in a scheme where he's a decent pass rusher at best. However, I do think he could put up better numbers if he wasn't wasted rushing inside so much. He can be very disruptive when he takes on tackles. I just can't see them paying him all that money to have average production based on how they play him.

Also, It wouldn't shock me if he walked much like why Akiem Hicks walked. Had Hicks stayed in NE for 2 more years, he wouldn't of had the production he had in Chicago and then get that mega contract. Flowers may go to a team that will help him get one more contract. I really think Flowers talent is wasted at times.

 

[mgteich]

You assured us all that Danny Shelton was the fix.

right; not all players work out

I hoped that Gordon would be a fix at WR