Patriots Front 7

[Deus Irae]

Both Patricia and Vrabel traded to get ahead of the Patriots who were interested
in the same player.

"The Patriots could have traded up to get someone like Vander Esch, and then probably traded down to take Chubb instead of Michel, in order to keep their draft relatively intact below the first round. That sort of thing happens in the NFL."

- Common sense assessment


"That's unpossible!"

- Patriots homers

 

[maineman209]

I still can’t believe we drafted Brown over Landon Collins...

At the time, the Pats had only Branch and Siliga at DT, having lost Wilfork in FA. Except for Grady Jarrett, all the rest of the DTs taken after Brown (at#32) in the 2015 draft have produced considerably less value.

Collins was drafted at #33.

At safety, they had Chung, McCourty, Harmon and Wilson. Wilson was in his contract year and had developed into a premier special-teamer, but not much more. The Pats took Richards at #64 as an early replacement, development project. Aside from Adrian Amos, none of the safeties taken after Richards has matched his value.

So, the Pats went DT, then Safety, instead of Safety, then DT. They ended up with a solid DT and a very good special-teamer.

If they'd gone the other way, they'd have gotten (maybe) a very good safety, and a DT who likely would have been basically worthless.

 

[reflexblue]

Could be that the type of players that the Pats needed for what they were attempting to do up front this season simply weren't as good, value wise, as the players they took early on offense.

It should be remembered that Bentley was playing like a starting caliber NFL LB before he got hurt.

We only saw Bently play a few games, not enough (for me at least) to judge. For the last dozen years ive heard the argument that the players available don't fit with BBs philosophy. Just think of all the players that were successful here, leave and never achive the same level of production with other teams. Its because of BB the coach not the quality of player, he can make chicken salad out of chicken sht. If he can do that with a player of limited ability what could he do with a player of great ability that doesn't exacly fit his scheme? So i don't quit buy the notion of a player having to fit BBs scheme or philosophy. Just remember what he did with the players that bill parcels and pete carrol drafted.

 

[PatsFan2]

"The Patriots could have traded up to get someone like Vander Esch, and then probably traded down to take Chubb instead of Michel, in order to keep their draft relatively intact below the first round. That sort of thing happens in the NFL."

- Common sense assessment


"That's unpossible!"

- Patriots homers

BB loves the stay Pat and let the Draft come to him strange study: by that time we are Drafting Seventh Round Players in the Second. I bet BB takes an Aggressive approach in 2019 I would rather Four Good players with Potential than Seven who Suck. Be aggressive BB and stop stock pilling picks if you ain't going to do crap with them. When was the last Time we came out of a Draft with Three or Four Good players?? Many many many moons ago.

 

[TheRainMaker]

When was the last Time we came out of a Draft with Three or Four Good players?? Many many many moons ago

Off the top of my head was 2012 (Jones, Hightower and Dennard) which is not good. Then for some reason, Dennard fell off a cliff.

 

[maineman209]

We only saw Bently play a few games, not enough (for me at least) to judge. For the last dozen years ive heard the argument that the players available don't fit with BBs philosophy. Just think of all the players that were successful here, leave and never achive the same level of production with other teams. Its because of BB the coach not the quality of player, he can make chicken salad out of chicken sht. If he can do that with a player of limited ability what could he do with a player of great ability that doesn't exacly fit his scheme? So i don't quit buy the notion of a player having to fit BBs scheme or philosophy. Just remember what he did with the players that bill parcels and pete carrol drafted.

Bentley played in three games, starting two. He averaged 5 tackles/game, had a QBH and an INT. He allowed 2 receptions on 4 targets into his coverage for a total of 16 yards. He looked the part and was putting up the numbers.

The only "philosophy" involved is trying to assemble the best possible roster to defeat the opponents that are on the Pats schedule by thwarting what those opponents are likely to try to do, and are likely to do well. That dictates what types of schemes BB and the defensive coaches will emphasize and try to perfect, which, in turn, dictates what types of players the roster will need for its base and for the various roles that will change from opponent to opponent.

All the guys coming out of college in the draft are nothing more than prospects until they've proven themselves in NFL-level practices and games. A lot of college prospects look great and may even do very well, as individual players, wherever they land. BB takes the prospects who he feels will provided the best value as teammates in the short-term and long-term schemes that the defense as a whole needs to be able to execute against their specific schedule.

BB has acquired a lot of NFL players as one-year rentals, many of whom weren't accomplishing much with their previous team. Most of them filled a necessary role with the Pats quite nicely, and then moved on. Some of those who moved on have gone on to achieve more (Casillas, Hicks), others less.

 

[PatsFan2]

"The Patriots could have traded up to get someone like Vander Esch, and then probably traded down to take Chubb instead of Michel, in order to keep their draft relatively intact below the first round. That sort of thing happens in the NFL."

- Common sense assessment


"That's unpossible!"

- Patriots homers

I am not giving up on Sony you can see his potential he could probably run for 300 this D. That said the Browns got Great value in Chubb.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When was the last Time we came out of a Draft with Three or Four Good players?? Many many many moons ago.

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

Do you count Michel, Bentley, JC Jackson and Wynn?

Or in 2015 Brown, Flowers, Mason and Cardona

2014 Jimmy, Stork, White, Malcolm.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Bentley played in three games, starting two. He averaged 5 tackles/game, had a QBH and an INT. He allowed 2 receptions on 4 targets into his coverage for a total of 16 yards. He looked the part and was putting up the numbers.

The only "philosophy" involved is trying to assemble the best possible roster to defeat the opponents that are on the Pats schedule by thwarting what those opponents are likely to try to do, and are likely to do well. That dictates what types of schemes BB and the defensive coaches will emphasize and try to perfect, which, in turn, dictates what types of players the roster will need for its base and for the various roles that will change from opponent to opponent.

All the guys coming out of college in the draft are nothing more than prospects until they've proven themselves in NFL-level practices and games. A lot of college prospects look great and may even do very well, as individual players, wherever they land. BB takes the prospects who he feels will provided the best value as teammates in the short-term and long-term schemes that the defense as a whole needs to be able to execute against their specific schedule.

BB has acquired a lot of NFL players as one-year rentals, many of whom weren't accomplishing much with their previous team. Most of them filled a necessary role with the Pats quite nicely, and then moved on. Some of those who moved on have gone on to achieve more (Casillas, Hicks), others less.

Losing Bentley really hurt.

 

[maineman209]

Losing Bentley really hurt.

Took a lot of options off the table.

 

[203Pat]

At the time, the Pats had only Branch and Siliga at DT, having lost Wilfork in FA. Except for Grady Jarrett, all the rest of the DTs taken after Brown (at#32) in the 2015 draft have produced considerably less value.

Collins was drafted at #33.

At safety, they had Chung, McCourty, Harmon and Wilson. Wilson was in his contract year and had developed into a premier special-teamer, but not much more. The Pats took Richards at #64 as an early replacement, development project. Aside from Adrian Amos, none of the safeties taken after Richards has matched his value.

So, the Pats went DT, then Safety, instead of Safety, then DT. They ended up with a solid DT and a very good special-teamer.

If they'd gone the other way, they'd have gotten (maybe) a very good safety, and a DT who likely would have been basically worthless.

Lol yay we got a very good special teamer in round 2.

 

[PatsFan2]

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

^
That the Saints did it a few years back hitting on players who produced ASAP we need one of those Drafts.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

Do you count Michel, Bentley, JC Jackson and Wynn?

Or in 2015 Brown, Flowers, Mason and Cardona

2014 Jimmy, Stork, White, Malcolm.

2018: incomplete but doesn't look good.
2014: White is the only one left. I would've given them a pass had they kept Jimmy. Drafting him for a two game rental and then trading him for just a couple spots higher in the 2nd round is disappointing.

 

[203Pat]

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

Do you count Michel, Bentley, JC Jackson and Wynn?

Or in 2015 Brown, Flowers, Mason and Cardona

2014 Jimmy, Stork, White, Malcolm.

This isn’t a good group. Jury is out on this years draft. Flowers and Mason are studs while the rest of the class was below average. Jimmy you could’ve sold me on had we not traded him where we got him. Stork and Malcolm lasted 5 minutes.

 

[PatsFan2]

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

Do you count Michel, Bentley, JC Jackson and Wynn?

Or in 2015 Brown, Flowers, Mason and Cardona

2014 Jimmy, Stork, White, Malcolm.

Lets wait and see with Wynn the Patriots have a horrible history with Injured Rookies in the BB era.

 

[PatsFan2]

2018: incomplete but doesn't look good.
2014: White is the only one left. I would've given them a pass had they kept Jimmy. Drafting him for a two game rental and then trading him for just a couple spots higher in the 2nd round is disappointing.

Please don't remind me.

 

[upstater1]

Bill has been putting more of an emphasis on drafting offensive players since that is the direction the league is heading.

What do we have to show for it though?

Sony Michel?

Drafting a 3rd or 4th round WR in Mitchell doesn't really count as going heavy on offense. This team should always draft a WR in the 4-6 and RB in the 4-6 every year, with the hope of hitting on one.

I think we're drafted just as many top defensive players recently as O, with Dawson, Flowers, Wise, and a few which haven't panned out.

This team has many deficiencies all over the field, unfortunately.

 

[maineman209]

Depends on how you look at it. Players that stick around for 4 years + maybe 2012 or players that contribute ASAP.

Do you count Michel, Bentley, JC Jackson and Wynn?

Or in 2015 Brown, Flowers, Mason and Cardona

2014 Jimmy, Stork, White, Malcolm.

Then there are second-level values. In 2015, the Pats also ended up with two guys who were very god special-teamers for three seasons, and drafted a guy in the late sixth who they flipped a year later for a future 5th-rounder.

 

[maineman209]

What do we have to show for it though?

Sony Michel?

Drafting a 3rd or 4th round WR in Mitchell doesn't really count as going heavy on offense. This team should always draft a WR in the 4-6 and RB in the 4-6 every year, with the hope of hitting on one.

I think we're drafted just as many top defensive players recently as O, with Dawson, Flowers, Wise, and a few which haven't panned out.

This team has many deficiencies all over the field, unfortunately.

So far, only Sony.

But then, there's Wynn. There's also Izzo, who (in pre-season) already seemed like a better blocker than Hollister and a better receiver than Hollster or Allen. Also, Etling is on the PSquad, helping to prep the defense for mobile QBs.

 

[slash83]

I hope Shelton plays next week, having him on the field can’t make the run defense worse can it?