Patriots Player Departure Patriots are sending WR Kayshon Boutte to the Texans for safety Jaylen Reed and a draft pick

[TommyD4207]

The truly bizarre thing in this and your next post is that you can acknowledge we went way too "metric" by choosing JuJu over Meyers, and you even say we might have won a game more or whatever with Meyers, but it doesn't result in winning because we landed Maye as a result of sucking.

You don't see a flaw in your logic?

I won't be looking at Boutte because I've already said here his value to the Patriots is DIFFERENT than his value to Texans (who don't have Drake Maye).

If Williams does not pan out, it's a bad trade.

The overall point is, "Who gives a rat's ass, so long as they win"?

It's not just good trade/bad trade - it's 'They made this trade 20 years ago and I'm still mad about it because....we might have won 1 more game in an otherwise 4-13 season" - what's the difference?

Jakobi/Juju wasn't 'metric', that was the excuse they floated in the press. You and I and everyone know exactly what the reason was - but I get roasted by the bootlickers every time I say it.

Also, the Raiders game. People pretend that didn't matter, it mattered.

 

[upstater1]

The overall point is, "Who gives a rat's ass, so long as they win"?

It's not just good trade/bad trade - it's 'They made this trade 20 years ago and I'm still mad about it because....we might have won 1 more game in an otherwise 4-13 season" - what's the difference?

Jakobi/Juju wasn't 'metric', that was the excuse they floated in the press. You and I and everyone know exactly what the reason was - but I get roasted by the bootlickers every time I say it.

Also, the Raiders game. People pretend that didn't matter, it mattered.

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make.

The whole point of this discussion board is rooting on the Pats.

We all want them to win.

Every single discussion here is about how the team can best improve the team to win.

So Im really not understanding what you're getting at.

 

[Kdo5]

Will you just do us all a favor and either go with him or back to the Jets forum where you belong?

Why are you still following me around with ad hominem commentary? It’s weird and kind of pathetic.

That you need to insult anytime you disagree with something is greater commentary on yourself than anything else.

 

[TommyD4207]

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make.

The whole point of this discussion board is rooting on the Pats.

We all want them to win.

Every single discussion here is about how the team can best improve the team to win.

So Im really not understanding what you're getting at.

I'm getting at the usual suspects who will track every movement of Kayshon Boutte (already happened - Kayshon Boutte manages to successfully stand upright at a Texans practice), and flood unrelated threads with 'Kayshon Boutte had a catch today' nonsense. When, if Jaylen Reed pans out, and provides the Patriots needed secondary depth - likely won't matter in the long-term scheme of things.

If Kayshon Boutte goes on and becomes Randy Moss? Sure, a comment here and there would be warranted. But you're going to get the same 5 posters posting Kayshon Boutte stuff in every thread now as a result, no matter what he does.

 

[Uptown]

Doubs, Chase & Puka have the same YPR around 13 for their career. Higher than London, JSN & Devante Adams. Jefferson & AJ are around 15 YPR…Boutte at 16.7, so while we didn’t necessarily acquire Doubs to be a “deep threat” he’s still more than capable. If you consider those elite guys listed above as deep threats, then you’d also have to include Doubs as enough of a deep threat to be a deep threat. Either way, that’s what KW is here to bring to the offense. Glad to have all 3 of them on our team.

 

[Rob0729]

Most receivers catch around 40%ish of 20+ balls. 72% is ridiculous.

What you fail to recognize, still, is the success that Maye to Boutte had caused defenses to devote deep coverage over the top. You aren’t getting that with Hollins.

But don’t take my word for it. Look at the film. Tell me how often you see Boutte running off coverage, pulling a corner and a safety over the top out of being able to cover the other receivers.
There is an enormous amount of value in that which you will never see in the stat sheet.
Even more, opponents watch film and see if you give Boutte a small amount of separation Maye is the best in the league at making the throw and Boutte is exceptional at tracking it and making the catch, often needing to go to the ground but holding on.

Stefon Diggs had eight games last year where he had a reception over 20 yards. Not sure how many of those games had multiple ones. Mack Hollins had six games where he had catches of 20 or more yards. Pop Douglas had six games with four of them over 37 yards. Hunter Henry had seven.

People had to worry about the Pats over the top because of Drake Maye, not Kayshon Boutte. Maye was the most accurate deep ball passer in the league last year and it wasn't just because of Boutte.

And stop it. Boutte had difficulties getting separation all year. He wasn't drawing extra coverage on a regular basis. If anyone got extra coverage, it Diggs.

If the tape showed that Boutte was getting a lot of double teams, it would mean all these other teams in the league thought he was a top WR. And if they felt that he needed consistent double teams, teams would have been falling over each other to trade for him. No team is thinking Boutte is such a dangerous deep ball threat that he needed double teams but then say to themselves that there is no way am they giving up even a sixth rounder for the guy.

I can see front offices now:

"Hey did you hear? The Pats are willing to trade Kayshon Boutte."

"Ah that guy gave us fits last year. We had to double team him all game. What are the Pats asking for him?"

" I think they will let him go for a sixth rounder."

"A sixth rounder?!? They are crazy if they think they will get that much. Pass."


Seriously, I wish Boutte was the receiver you thought he was. If he was, the Patriots would have given him a long term deal.

 

[Rob0729]

Doubs, Chase & Puka have the same YPR around 13 for their career. Higher than London, JSN & Devante Adams. Jefferson & AJ are around 15 YPR…Boutte at 16.7, so while we didn’t necessarily acquire Doubs to be a “deep threat” he’s still more than capable. If you consider those elite guys listed above as deep threats, then you’d also have to include Doubs as enough of a deep threat to be a deep threat. Either way, that’s what KW is here to bring to the offense. Glad to have all 3 of them on our team.

We don't even know if Doubs isn't a better deep ball receiver than Boutte. The Packers are not a deep passing team. And Christian Watkins was usually the guy when Love took deep shots because Watson because he is the speed deep ball guy on the Packers. The Packers prefer shorter passes with a lot of YAC.

And the shorter quick passes was missing last year and got Maye in trouble at times. May be why the Pats wanted to move onto Doubs. Doubs is more of an short to intermediate guy who has the ability to get open quickly and beat guys off the line.

 

[Uptown]

We don't even know if Doubs isn't a better deep ball receiver than Boutte. The Packers are not a deep passing team. And Christian Watkins was usually the guy when Love took deep shots because Watson because he is the speed deep ball guy on the Packers. The Packers prefer shorter passes with a lot of YAC.

And the shorter quick passes was missing last year and got Maye in trouble at times. May be why the Pats wanted to move onto Doubs. Doubs is more of a short to intermediate guy who has the ability to get open quickly and beat guys off the line.

Doubs is excellent at all three levels of the field.

 

[n1997y]

I honestly have no idea what point you're trying to make.

The whole point of this discussion board is rooting on the Pats.

We all want them to win.

Every single discussion here is about how the team can best improve the team to win.

So Im really not understanding what you're getting at.

The whole point of most posts on this board, including many of yours, is the dopamine hit of posting ****, arguing, and feeling you’re right.

It has little to do with rooting for the Patriots. Rooting for them here is like the orange juice in a screwdriver, just a carrier for the real stuff.

How does dredging up a deal for Juju years ago as pertinent to a thread about whether we should trade Boutte days after he was finally traded have anything to do with “how the team can best improve the team to win”?

 

[Ring 6]

Stefon Diggs had eight games last year where he had a reception over 20 yards. Not sure how many of those games had multiple ones. Mack Hollins had six games where he had catches of 20 or more yards. Pop Douglas had six games with four of them over 37 yards. Hunter Henry had seven.

People had to worry about the Pats over the top because of Drake Maye, not Kayshon Boutte. Maye was the most accurate deep ball passer in the league last year and it wasn't just because of Boutte.

And stop it. Boutte had difficulties getting separation all year. He wasn't drawing extra coverage on a regular basis. If anyone got extra coverage, it Diggs.

If the tape showed that Boutte was getting a lot of double teams, it would mean all these other teams in the league thought he was a top WR. And if they felt that he needed consistent double teams, teams would have been falling over each other to trade for him. No team is thinking Boutte is such a dangerous deep ball threat that he needed double teams but then say to themselves that there is no way am they giving up even a sixth rounder for the guy.

I can see front offices now:

"Hey did you hear? The Pats are willing to trade Kayshon Boutte."

"Ah that guy gave us fits last year. We had to double team him all game. What are the Pats asking for him?"

" I think they will let him go for a sixth rounder."

"A sixth rounder?!? They are crazy if they think they will get that much. Pass."


Seriously, I wish Boutte was the receiver you thought he was. If he was, the Patriots would have given him a long term deal.

Reception over 20 yards is not the same as a throw 20 yards downfield.

Hollins had 17% of his throws 20+ yards and caught 3 of 11.
Douglas had 18% and was 4/8. And if you watched the games you would know those were almost all not designed and were fire drill plays.

What? The tape shows what it shows. It shows that Boutte ran a lot of routes to run defenders off and defenses respected the threat and kept a deep safety over top a lot of the time. Not sure how you refute what happened by making up what you think teams would do if that player became available. Teams without Drake Maye wouldn’t value it as much of course.

You are all over the page here, making up things I supposedly said. I mean please quote where I said he was “double teamed”. I never did. I explained that he took a corner deep and because of his success with Maye in deep balls defenses often put a safety over top.

Everything I am saying is right there for you to see on tape.
I’m not sure what you I “the receiver I thought he was is” but if you would stop trying to twist yourself into a pretzel to defend what you probably really know you were wrong about you would see that my posts about Boutte add up to he brought an important skillset; the ability to take coverage deep, to track and catch deep passes exceptionally well, and if Williams is what we hold he can do that and will be better. Otherwise we have no one to do that and it will hurt us.
Those are the words I use not the ones you pretend where you hyperventilate and try to make things up to support your weak argument.

 

[Ring 6]

Stefon Diggs had eight games last year where he had a reception over 20 yards. Not sure how many of those games had multiple ones. Mack Hollins had six games where he had catches of 20 or more yards. Pop Douglas had six games with four of them over 37 yards. Hunter Henry had seven.

People had to worry about the Pats over the top because of Drake Maye, not Kayshon Boutte. Maye was the most accurate deep ball passer in the league last year and it wasn't just because of Boutte.

And stop it. Boutte had difficulties getting separation all year. He wasn't drawing extra coverage on a regular basis. If anyone got extra coverage, it Diggs.

If the tape showed that Boutte was getting a lot of double teams, it would mean all these other teams in the league thought he was a top WR. And if they felt that he needed consistent double teams, teams would have been falling over each other to trade for him. No team is thinking Boutte is such a dangerous deep ball threat that he needed double teams but then say to themselves that there is no way am they giving up even a sixth rounder for the guy.

I can see front offices now:

"Hey did you hear? The Pats are willing to trade Kayshon Boutte."

"Ah that guy gave us fits last year. We had to double team him all game. What are the Pats asking for him?"

" I think they will let him go for a sixth rounder."

"A sixth rounder?!? They are crazy if they think they will get that much. Pass."


Seriously, I wish Boutte was the receiver you thought he was. If he was, the Patriots would have given him a long term deal.

So here is another question you can ponder and I doubt you will answer.
If we agree that a dynamic of the Patriots offense last year was that defenses were more concerned about deep throws so they adjusted coverage because of it (you really can’t disagree with that and be honest) who was running most of the deep routes?

 

[n1997y]

Interesting read, shows Texans were really high on Jalen Reed.

Jaylen Reed Is Locked In for Year 2 and the Texans Are Better for It

 

[mgteich]

I agree, I would argue with anyone that Booty is a top 10 ball tracker in the league. Over the shoulder grabs are almost a certainty with him.

ROFL

 

[Huckleberry1]

The more I think about it the more I like model for trades. Instead of going for the future picks go for young players you wanted in the draft who have shown they can stick in the NFL, and were prospects you wanted in their draft.

 

[Mack Herron]

The more I think about it the more I like model for trades. Instead of going for the future picks go for young players you wanted in the draft who have shown they can stick in the NFL, and were prospects you wanted in their draft.

Especially if you don’t give up someone who has been productive in the NFL.