Patricia Vs Judge For Play Calling Duties?

[All3Phases]

Every single season the Patriots make changes to plays depending on personnel (among other things). You can't become stale and let teams know what you're doing. This is Fact. All teams do it...some more then others.

Nobody has argued otherwise!

 

[venecol]

Lazar is bullish on the O. Also:

"Along with Jones’s positive development, the other major takeaway is that New England’s offense is strongly considering transitioning to a zone-based rushing attack after years of featuring a gap or power scheme.

When we asked him about it on Wednesday, longtime Patriots center David Andrews chalked up the zone-heavy run periods to finding an offensive identity with this group or experimenting to find out what the Pats personnel does best.

Typically, zone-based systems such as Sean McVay’s Rams or Kyle Shanahan’s 49ers make life easier on everyone compared to Josh McDaniels’s complex scheme that we’ve seen over the last decade.

An outside zone and bootleg play-action foundation make things more straightforward on the offensive line and receivers from a mental standpoint. Those schemes are also simplified for top offensive assistants Joe Judge and Matt Patricia, who are relatively new to coaching offense."

Doesn't feel the same about the D.

Lazar: Despite Coaching Concerns, Mac Jones and the Patriots Offense Heading in Good Direction - CLNS Media

The Patriots' offense is heading in a positive direction thanks to an improved Mac Jones and a new offensive system.

www.clnsmedia.com

 

[Ring 6]

“We do have a new system,” Bourne told Cox, “New words, new terminology. That’s the biggest thing.”

“Well, we’ve had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple of years,” Belichick said. “It’s a good time to streamline things. We did that defensively a couple of years ago and feel like this is a good time to do it offensively.

I guess youre right, that isnt even smoke, its fire. The only speculation I threw in there is the reason it was done and thats really the only thing im argying. Im not sure what youre really arguing here


Again, I dont discount different elements changing each year, but you seem to agree that this change is happening because because the experience in the coaching staff is gone. Which is my point. Not sure why you refer to last year as a LegArm Offense? Looked like Mac ran an offense that resembled what the Patriots have done for 20 years

You are seriously kidding me if you take a couple off the cuff comments in an OTA from Bourne as completely changing everything about the offense. You can’t not know how dumb that is.

Every season change happens. Change happens because if personnel changes, coaching changes, self scouting, new ideas, etc etc. The framework of the offense stays the same. The reason for the tweaks are immaterial because they are happening anyway. Of course assistant coaches will have input into the process. Do you really just not understand how this works?
Who was the starting qb last year in OTAs, mini camps, training camp and all the way up to the last preseason games?
When they did the annual off season revision if they offense, it was the Legarm offense. This year it was the Jones offense.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady's a poor example due to his rare mistakes, especially compared to the team's misses on players, but it's nice to see that we can talk about Brady here again. Or is it only criticism that's allowed here?

How is making a mistake that is overcome and ultimately irrelevant different than making a mistake that is overcome and ultimately irrelevant?

 

[Ring 6]

When we asked him about it on Wednesday, longtime Patriots center David Andrews chalked up the zone-heavy run periods to finding an offensive identity with this group or experimenting to find out what the Pats personnel does best.

This is what is relevant.
The patriots have used zone and power and gap schemes every year since 2000. The degree to which they use them is dependent upon personnel.
Recently they have used less zone blocking but the personnel seems it may be effective at it.
So, those who have been paying attention understand that through out the off season and preseason they work everything in their scheme. It has VERY OFTEN been the case that they install packages they don’t use frequently or haven’t recently used frequently first. It’s pretty much a BB MO.
Unfortunately we have many posters who are here simply to complain who feel the need to create a narrative around this to support their negativity and the value of the discussion on this board suffers.

 

[All3Phases]

You are seriously kidding me if you take a couple off the cuff comments in an OTA from Bourne as completely changing everything about the offense. You can’t not know how dumb that is.

Every season change happens. Change happens because if personnel changes, coaching changes, self scouting, new ideas, etc etc. The framework of the offense stays the same. The reason for the tweaks are immaterial because they are happening anyway. Of course assistant coaches will have input into the process. Do you really just not understand how this works?
Who was the starting qb last year in OTAs, mini camps, training camp and all the way up to the last preseason games?
When they did the annual off season revision if they offense, it was the Legarm offense. This year it was the Jones offense.

Belichick had quotes in there too, you continuously keep saying changes happen every year. I’m not disagreeing with that, this is a change that seems different than other years, I’ve provided the quotes you asked for. You just keep telling me I’m wrong. You admitted if McD was still here, this change likely isn’t happening, there’s really nothing else to it

 

[All3Phases]

This is what is relevant.
The patriots have used zone and power and gap schemes every year since 2000. The degree to which they use them is dependent upon personnel.
Recently they have used less zone blocking but the personnel seems it may be effective at it.
So, those who have been paying attention understand that through out the off season and preseason they work everything in their scheme. It has VERY OFTEN been the case that they install packages they don’t use frequently or haven’t recently used frequently first. It’s pretty much a BB MO.
Unfortunately we have many posters who are here simply to complain who feel the need to create a narrative around this to support their negativity and the value of the discussion on this board suffers.

This is just a hypocritical post by you. If we use Kendrick Bournes statements it’s off the cuff, if we use Andrews this is what matters. There’s nothing negative about what I’m saying. You don’t need to spin that narrative on it

And btw you are still missing the point, I’ve never disagreed that personnel dictates branches of their scheme. The streamlining of the terminology is different, and you really can’t prove otherwise

 

[Ring 6]

This is just a hypocritical post by you. If we use Kendrick Bournes statements it’s off the cuff, if we use Andrews this is what matters. There’s nothing negative about what I’m saying. You don’t need to spin that narrative on it

And btw you are still missing the point, I’ve never disagreed that personnel dictates branches of their scheme. The streamlining of the terminology is different, and you really can’t prove otherwise

It’s not hypocritical at all.
New player: we are changing the offense
Veteran player: we do this every year.

Very pertinent to my point that you are overblowing a few comments into a “complete change of the entire offensive system” and me saying they make changes every year and this iteration is part of the normal process.

Please explain what you think “streamlining the terminology” means. You keep using it as if it means something significant.

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick had quotes in there too, you continuously keep saying changes happen every year. I’m not disagreeing with that, this is a change that seems different than other years, I’ve provided the quotes you asked for. You just keep telling me I’m wrong. You admitted if McD was still here, this change likely isn’t happening, there’s really nothing else to it

How does it seem different? It’s June. They have barely been on the field. They haven’t installed the offense. How can you think the changes are different before you see the changes?
You did not provide quotes “that I asked for”. I asked you to support your comment that he entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology completely changed.
Nothing quoted comes close to a wholesale change of everything. This is what Belichick said.
"Well, we've had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple years, and it's a good time to streamline things," he said Tuesday at the start of the Patriots' mandatory minicamp. "We did that defensively a couple years ago. We feel like it's a good time to do it offensively. There's an element of that every year."
"I don't know. You make changes every year. I can't, I wouldn't be able to rank them."

This is exactly what I’ve said. You have taken words out of it and blown them up into something they are not in order to stick with your unsupported opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Every single season the Patriots make changes to plays depending on personnel (among other things). You can't become stale and let teams know what you're doing. This is Fact. All teams do it...some more then others.

The patriots last 2 off seasons were with the anticipation of Legarm Newton at QB.
Belichick said “we have changed a lot the last 2 years, it’s a good time to streamline”
Here is a simplistic view to illustrate.
The team develops a playbook. That playbook includes many concepts and each season an analysis is done, more pages are added and which ones are incorporated more or less heavily are shuffled. Some seasons you throw out stuff you don’t need any more, some old stuff may be redundant because you updated it or changed it fit personnel or how the game has changed. This is what streamline means you throw out the old stuff you don’t use any more or the packages you were forced to use with a Legarm QB.

 

[venecol]

“The Patriots have informed me that they will no longer need my services for next season simply because they will no longer have my position on the roster,” Johnson said.

Bourne said they're changing the offense. Bill said they're making a lot of changes. Bill drafts atypical PTP mainly on the offense. Lazar observations of OTAs and mini camp:

"In my five seasons covering the team, I’ve never seen the Pats hold two-straight days of practice without run periods featuring a fullback and pulling guards. It was a completely different look."

"Another possible reason for the shift is getting New England’s skill players into more space to hit explosive plays, especially draft picks Tyquan Thornton and Pierre Strong, rather than the phone booth offense that heavier formations and power blocking schemes create (no more four yards and a cloud of dust. Let’s get into space and go)."

The moving of Wynn to RT (never played there before) and Brown to LT to distribute athleticism across the line.

New offensive coaches (with limited O exp.), practicing new OZB schemes, streamlining terminology, drafting faster OZB scheme players.

I doubt Bill is just doing all of this for the hell of it. He's focusing on getting more downfield explosive plays. I think we should all be excited about this new direction.

Interesting article on whether there’s a relationship between point differential and the percentage of yards gained on explosive plays.

Are Explosive Plays Worth More Than the Yards they Create?

Are Explosive Plays Worth More Than the Yards they Create? There’s a conundrum at play in football. On one side, coaches such as...

www.the33rdteam.com

"Arizona, Buffalo, Tennessee, and the LA Rams needed explosive plays in the pass game to be successful, as did Kansas City and New England."

Bill knows this and is making new changes to be successful.

 

[All3Phases]

How does it seem different? It’s June. They have barely been on the field. They haven’t installed the offense. How can you think the changes are different before you see the changes?
You did not provide quotes “that I asked for”. I asked you to support your comment that he entire playbook is streamlined and the terminology completely changed.
Nothing quoted comes close to a wholesale change of everything. This is what Belichick said.
"Well, we've had a lot of changes offensively in the last couple years, and it's a good time to streamline things," he said Tuesday at the start of the Patriots' mandatory minicamp. "We did that defensively a couple years ago. We feel like it's a good time to do it offensively. There's an element of that every year."
"I don't know. You make changes every year. I can't, I wouldn't be able to rank them."

This is exactly what I’ve said. You have taken words out of it and blown them up into something they are not in order to stick with your unsupported opinion.

Did you happen to see Wynns quote yesterday as well? Not sure how many quotes you need from guys on the team. He literally said they’re dumbing down the offense so they can think less and play faster.

 

[All3Phases]

It’s not hypocritical at all.
New player: we are changing the offense
Veteran player: we do this every year.

Very pertinent to my point that you are overblowing a few comments into a “complete change of the entire offensive system” and me saying they make changes every year and this iteration is part of the normal process.

Please explain what you think “streamlining the terminology” means. You keep using it as if it means something significant.

Kendrick Bourne was on the roster last year, the playbook terminology is being altered according to him. Isaiah Wynn has been here 5 years, they’re dumbing down the offense according to him. Mac was here last year, he’s said they’re teaching the coaching the offense as well, it’s a partnership. How many different examples do you need to realize this year is different than others? Denial isn’t a good look

A “few” quotes have backed by argument, which is the offense is changing because of the inexperience on the staff. I didn’t say it was a bad thing at all, just that it was the reason imo. You’ve said that having a more intricate offense is better, so when they’re dumbing it down now…you’ll have to backtrack and pretend you didn’t say that

 

[All3Phases]

Here’s the quote for Ring. Again, should we discount this because it’s June?

"I feel like they took a little but of thinking for us, you know what I'm saying? They kind of dumbed it down so everybody could play faster." - Isaiah Wynn on the streamlining of the offensive playbook, from a verbiage standpoint.

 

[venecol]

They kind of dumbed it down.

 

[Ring 6]

Did you happen to see Wynns quote yesterday as well? Not sure how many quotes you need from guys on the team. He literally said they’re dumbing down the offense so they can think less and play faster.

Wynn was at 2 practices.

And every year we hear quotes how the defense will be more aggressive, the offense will do this or that. They make changes every year.
I would not be surprised that the stuff Belichick chose to take out would make the players feel it was less complicated because he was there 10 years.
What happens in walk through pace non contact mini camp practices is not what happens on the field in September.
Yay, they started with the easy stuff. Probably good thinking.

 

[Ring 6]

Kendrick Bourne was on the roster last year, the playbook terminology is being altered according to him. Isaiah Wynn has been here 5 years, they’re dumbing down the offense according to him. Mac was here last year, he’s said they’re teaching the coaching the offense as well, it’s a partnership. How many different examples do you need to realize this year is different than others? Denial isn’t a good look

A “few” quotes have backed by argument, which is the offense is changing because of the inexperience on the staff. I didn’t say it was a bad thing at all, just that it was the reason imo. You’ve said that having a more intricate offense is better, so when they’re dumbing it down now…you’ll have to backtrack and pretend you didn’t say that

First, the statement you are trying to defend is that the entire playbook and terminology have totally changed.
Citing examples of change does not satisfy that.
I explained to you, although you seem unwilling to learn, that this happens every single year. You said “this year is different”. If it were, we wouldn’t even know yet because we are at the first step of a 100 mile journey to prepare the team for the season.

 

[Ring 6]

“The Patriots have informed me that they will no longer need my services for next season simply because they will no longer have my position on the roster,” Johnson said.

Bourne said they're changing the offense. Bill said they're making a lot of changes. Bill drafts atypical PTP mainly on the offense. Lazar observations of OTAs and mini camp:

"In my five seasons covering the team, I’ve never seen the Pats hold two-straight days of practice without run periods featuring a fullback and pulling guards. It was a completely different look."

"Another possible reason for the shift is getting New England’s skill players into more space to hit explosive plays, especially draft picks Tyquan Thornton and Pierre Strong, rather than the phone booth offense that heavier formations and power blocking schemes create (no more four yards and a cloud of dust. Let’s get into space and go)."

The moving of Wynn to RT (never played there before) and Brown to LT to distribute athleticism across the line.

New offensive coaches (with limited O exp.), practicing new OZB schemes, streamlining terminology, drafting faster OZB scheme players.

I doubt Bill is just doing all of this for the hell of it. He's focusing on getting more downfield explosive plays. I think we should all be excited about this new direction.

Interesting article on whether there’s a relationship between point differential and the percentage of yards gained on explosive plays.

Are Explosive Plays Worth More Than the Yards they Create?

Are Explosive Plays Worth More Than the Yards they Create? There’s a conundrum at play in football. On one side, coaches such as...

www.the33rdteam.com

"Arizona, Buffalo, Tennessee, and the LA Rams needed explosive plays in the pass game to be successful, as did Kansas City and New England."

Bill knows this and is making new changes to be successful.

There is no question Belichick is trying to improve the offensive scheme. He does so every year. After 20 years of Brady and 2 off season with Legarm newton as your expected QB it would be idiotic to think that in the first Mac off-season analysis there would be a change in the pieces of the playbook they want to consider using more.
This teams schemes have evolved every year since Belichick arrived.
But hey, it’s something you can twist into negative comments about the team so it’s not surprising you are blowing it out of proportion. It’s your thing.

 

[Ring 6]

They kind of dumbed it down.

It’s the first 2 days of practice. Perhaps you should find a friend who has played football and they can explain how this works to you.

 

[All3Phases]

First, the statement you are trying to defend is that the entire playbook and terminology have totally changed.
Citing examples of change does not satisfy that.
I explained to you, although you seem unwilling to learn, that this happens every single year. You said “this year is different”. If it were, we wouldn’t even know yet because we are at the first step of a 100 mile journey to prepare the team for the season.

Sure this year isn’t different, simply because you don’t want it to be true. According to literally multiple players, the terminology is being simplified. Why is that a bad thing?

And I have certainly acknowledged the scheme is altered each year each week even. You aren’t acknowledging that this is the first year we’ve heard about terminology changes, streamlining and dumbing down.

This quote below is the reason why you are fighting this. Wynn has basically confirmed this is what they’ve done...Which would mean you would have to say you dont like what theyre doing

“A system for dummies isn’t better than a system that utilizes the players intelligence to an advantage.

The system has worked fine. It has been extraordinarily effective. Dumbing it down would have made it less effective.”—Ring 6