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You mean the ones where tb12 was here, and where the same OC had multiple horrifically pathetic seasons without tb12? Denver'10, StLouis'11, NE'20
You have to name a replacement who is going to make this team off the charts explosive on offense. And gurantee it. Who is it ? Making a change also means changing the system so it will be likely from within whom you wont like again. No way BB is bringing in an OC from outside to run a totally different scheme . And please dont say Bill O Brien.

Anyhow this season is really on the defense. Teams dont with a rookie QB and newly constructed offensive personnel without the D and ST picking up majority of the slack and they both have sucked at critical times.

I will give this about McD and BB. They misread jonnu smith's abilities wrt to our system. No way dude needs to make that much money for the production he had. He had better seasons in Tenn.
 
First of all, if you cant see the difference between ur approach and his, I gotta question your capacity the same way he questioned mine. Why? its not Football X & O fundamentals, its Humanity X & Os fundamentals. I know which comes first.

Now, with respect, no problem answering, in parts i guess

"Like the EP being dated. 1/3 of the league are using it in some form. Same can be said about our scouting system. About 10-12 teams use it in some variation. It's not bc it's outdated."

The way its used here it is. If you want to keep the basics, since terminology seems to be a problem, just compare Receiver package usage 5/0/0, 4/1/0, 3/2/0, WR, TE, RB). We are in the bottom of the league. Which teams are comparing to? Hopefully none of the High-powered offenses around the NFL, bc we are nothing alike

As far as I know, EP is basically a system designed to give skill players option, based on schemes, positioning, personnel etc, etc. Why dont we use "bunch formations" as much as the best Offensive teams? Thats what I want to know

"Also the Pats were in the top half of the league in term motion at the snap throughout most the season I believe. Like 14 in the league around Nov."

Top average league. Does sounds like we use it marginally, as in, is not a primary philosophy. Yeah, i agree, i guess. Should be higher IMO

"It sounds like your problem is with the personnel bc Josh has done a fantastic job at maximizing this current group under a rookie QB. Both had clear ceilings this year and they hit them."
Maybe. Things will change in 2022, Im excited by it. Hopefully then what i perceive as problems are tuened around


"We should want more insight and detail here not less."

Enough?

In your initial post you came out in ALL CAPS making criticisms of the coaching staff; saying they should be replaced for reasons that made absolutely no sense, and were just ignorant. You did this by coming off, fraudetly, as someone who had a solid knowledge of football. So, I called you out, and I picked apart your post with a critical awarenees while using the same tone that you established from the get-go. That's fair game. Again, you came out swinging so why would you ever expect me to treat you with the "kids gloves" on? That's a double standard. I respect the team I cheer for, as well as the coaching staff, & I know damn-well you criticism is garbage, so why should I ever let you run your mouth like that when I know your criticism is BS? You got called out, as you should have, with legit criticism. Your reaction? Ignore the legit points I made, and act as if I'm simply trolling you (which is false). You do this because you know I'm right. That's on you, not me.

Back to the discussion.
  • Ok, so we've established you are indeed referring to 00 personnel (5 wide recievers, no TE or Backs). Again, no one uses 00 personnel. No one. practically ever. I explained above. You are wrong.
  • With Brady, the Patriots used motion more than anyone. Did they use less with Mac Jones? Yes, because he's a rookie and it makes the protection and coverage far, far more complex. i.e. If the O is in motion, then so is the D. For example, In San Fran on MNF, they mentioned Kittle has to call out some of the protection in motion because they use motion more than anyone and Jimmy G has trouble focusing on reading the coverage because of it. Again, too many moving pieces. Brady can do this. Young QBs cannot.
  • Also, the Patriots use trips and bunch all the time. Every team does. I have no idea what you are talking about. They have different numbers for their protection based on 3x1 vs 2x2 formations (i.e. 54/55 vs 56/57 protection).
 
We are well coached. Watching other teams makes me appreciate what we have. We just need competitive receivers. Keep Bourne and upgrade the rest. Meyers would be a bench player on any other team.
 
Niners Mike Mcdaniel, Or Kevin O’Connell is intriguing.
Those are the 2 offensive coaches I like their formations and plays.
 
In your initial post you came out in ALL CAPS making criticisms of the coaching staff; saying they should be replaced for reasons that made absolutely no sense, and were just ignorant. You did this by coming off, fraudetly, as someone who had a solid knowledge of football. So, I called you out, and I picked apart your post with a critical awarenees while using the same tone that you established from the get-go. That's fair game. Again, you came out swinging so why would you ever expect me to treat you with the "kids gloves" on? That's a double standard. I respect the team I cheer for, as well as the coaching staff, & I know damn-well you criticism is garbage, so why should I ever let you run your mouth like that when I know your criticism is BS? You got called out, as you should have, with legit criticism. Your reaction? Ignore the legit points I made, and act as if I'm simply trolling you (which is false). You do this because you know I'm right. That's on you, not me.

Back to the discussion.
  • Ok, so we've established you are indeed referring to 00 personnel (5 wide recievers, no TE or Backs). Again, no one uses 00 personnel. No one. practically ever. I explained above. You are wrong.
  • With Brady, the Patriots used motion more than anyone. Did they use less with Mac Jones? Yes, because he's a rookie and it makes the protection and coverage far, far more complex. i.e. If the O is in motion, then so is the D. For example, In San Fran on MNF, they mentioned Kittle has to call out some of the protection in motion because they use motion more than anyone and Jimmy G has trouble focusing on reading the coverage because of it. Again, too many moving pieces. Brady can do this. Young QBs cannot.
  • Also, the Patriots use trips and bunch all the time. Every team does. I have no idea what you are talking about. They have different numbers for their protection based on 3x1 vs 2x2 formations (i.e. 54/55 vs 56/57 protection).
Oh

you know what

Scratch my last post.

A lil b1tch like u deserve a spanking, after all

Yeah, personal right? I guess you are starting to figure out the difference between calling in out a COACHING PERSONAL STAFFER in whatever font I ****ING WANT and directly insulting another poster in a board.

Wow, what a concept

So here is a tip for you, lil b1tchy b1tch. And let me make it bold, so neanderthals and less-than-human like urself and anyother loser wants to try to get close and personal too. This is for those here who dont know how talk productively in society work


I played football in 2 continents. I scouted teams in 2 continents, and in the NFL FOR fun, in my teenager years and into my ealry 20s. At 17, i was writing to an Official Patriots Site (fan-made, okok) in Brazil. The **** u, Shockt327, has been doing with your hobby and life lately, besides trying to get on top of other posters for no reason at all?

*****.

Next time ull talk to me, ill answer in Portugese. English is my third or fourth language after all
 
@Shockt327

Hey dude, whats up?

"Last seen 10 minutes ago"

Come on, lets go Football X & Os. Ill speak in my native langua, you use whatever app or site u gotta use when u fill ur bubble bursting. Lets go
 
Your behavior is getting ridiculous, but I'll repeat:

You got called out, as you should have, with legit criticism. Your reaction? Ignore the legit points I made, and act as if I'm simply trolling you (which is false). You do this because you know I'm right. That's on you, not me.

Please stop trying to make it sound like I came out attacking you unfairly, or crossed some imaginary line. You make ignorant criticisms -- under the pretense of having an advanced knowlege of football -- and were called out on it. You do not know nealy as much about football as you are tying to pass yourself off as having.
 
@Shockt327

Hey dude, whats up?

"Last seen 10 minutes ago"

Come on, lets go Football X & Os. Ill speak in my native langua, you use whatever app or site u gotta use when u fill ur bubble bursting. Lets go

You can start by answering the replies I made to your previous posts.
 
Your behavior is getting ridiculous, but I'll repeat:

You got called out, as you should have, with legit criticism. Your reaction? Ignore the legit points I made, and act as if I'm simply trolling you (which is false). You do this because you know I'm right. That's on you, not me.

Please stop trying to make it sound like I came out attacking you unfairly, or crossed some imaginary line. You make ignorant criticisms -- under the pretense of having an advanced knowlege of football -- and were called out on it. You do not know nealy as much about football as you are tying to pass yourself off as having.
Not even an answer back

Classic coward. This below is ur first paragraph. Bolded by me AND TO MAKE IT CLEAR

this was the FIRST.
Paragraph

@ JayNM

Ugh. I cannot stand fans who try and pass themselves off like they know the x's & o's, when it's clear they do not know anything; not even the basics.

Don't pass yourself off as something you aren't.

You toss around buzz words that you clearly do not understand and its completely obvious.


Please stop.
Sadly, you won't


So, put-up or shut-up. I'll be more than happy to nit-pick any play, video, illustration you want to bring up regarding what so new and special that NE doesn't do (Hint: NE probably does it too). This will be fun. Show me the video of the play/concept. Show me a drawing. Show me whatever you want. This will be a comedy of errors.

----

Im putting up or shutting up buddy. Only fair i speak with my dialect, would you not agree?
 
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In the posts you just quoted, I'm asking you to provide a play that highligts what the Patriots aren't doing.
 
Or do you want me to provide you a play and you have to break it down?

I'm open to either....
 
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@ JayNM

Ugh. I cannot stand fans who try and pass themselves off like they know the x's & o's, when it's clear they do not know anything; not even the basics. Don't pass yourself off as something you aren't. You toss around buzz words that you clearly do not understand and its completely obvious. Please stop. Sadly, you won't. So, put-up or shut-up. I'll be more than happy to nit-pick any play, video, illustration you want to bring up regarding what so new and special that NE doesn't do (Hint: NE probably does it too). This will be fun. Show me the video of the play/concept. Show me a drawing. Show me whatever you want. This will be a comedy of errors.
  • Stopped "innovating"? Tell me what this magical "innovation" is? Show me a play? Anything. Show me how it works (you can't). You'll probably dig up some article that throws around vague/broad terms like "RPO" or "Zone Read." That's conveniently avoids specifics.

Seu animal de merda, é o seguinte: POR DEFINIÇÃO inovação é algo que "Não existe". Em qualquer lingua, mesmo nessa que vc esta traduzindo (e eu vou usar abreviações tb, se te dificultar, poxa, eu aprendi). Se eu aparecer com uma inovação para um time de futebol americano, quando existem treinadores milionarios pra isso, eu não tinho feito Faculdade/Pos/Mestrado em Economia e IT
  • "we need to work in Trips WRs" WHAT!?!?! Are you f'ing kidding me? You think Trips is something special??? I cannot even put into words how utterly laughable this is. But wait. Ok, I'll play along. What's so special or new? What's so new/different about trips in today's game? Draw it up or tell me what's new. (Hint: there actually is somewhat of a minor trend on how teams use trips, but it's very small and you won't know a thing. It's really not "new" either. Another hint: It's based on strong side vs weakside and who aligns where. Oh, and the Patriots have been doing it for well over a decade, before it became a trend.)
Trips foi um exemplo, seu merdinha. Pena que vc tem dificuldade em leitura mesmo na sua lingua, mas o que esperar de macacos? Eu ja falei sobre isso como referencia para o Scotty, leia o post primeiro
  • "when you are facing 6 DBS, and 2 LBs who can cover the whole field" LOL!! In coverage, that's a 3-man-rush. Can you even count? Also, Defenses hardly ever show this personell; let alone rush three. When they do it either 3rd-and-forever or it's a prevent defense. Because, clearly, offenses will run the ball down their throats anytime they see that personnel. Wow, you really lack the common sense it takes a count.
lol. De novo, sua falta de compreensão em inglês é bizarra. O "better yet" foi com intenção de corrigir um pensamento livre, perdão, eu ja li livros com essa terminologia. Tb não sabia que a meticulosidade do que estava escrevendo estava nesse nivel de julgamento
  • "there arent any spaces left in the medium zone, where the EP is optimal." WTF are you even talking about? This has to be your dumbest point yet, which is saying something. Seriously, I have to point out the stupidity on multiple level, here.
    • Buddy, the "system" is just a language. You are actually trying to make it sound like the language dictates the scheme or play-design. Like once the playbook is written, there is no way to add something new. This is laughable.
Mermão, no ápice da sua imbecilidade que não é pouca, a resposta aqui é simples: sistema é melhor forma que eu pude escrever, nesse lingua. Tudo que vc diz apos isso, é vc tentando se convencer de algo, que simplesmente não é verdade
    • Also, you'd know this is you ever bothered to read playbooks (which woud require an understanding of basic concepts; which you lack). It's overwhelmingly the same stuff, but in a different language.
É, eu sei disso. Até agora, vc falou falou, criticou, xingou, mas não falou ABSOLUTAMENTE NADA de táticas. Nada. Zero.
    • No spaces in medium zone for NE? LOL, Hunter Henry's entire season has been been based on attacking defenses over the middle. Same as Gronk when he was here. Same as Gronk, currently, in Tampa (when Bruce Arians never did this before). You'd have no idea how it works. But feel free to google Jab 144 Ctr Hot, and get back to me. (Hint: Peyton Maninng has mentioned this in discussion with Brady)
Opa, eu elogiei ele. É Henry tem sido bom, concordo. E ai? O resto do time?
    • But ok, I'll play-along, tell me these imaginary passing concepts that open up the "medium zone."
OPAAA FINALMENTE, uma perguntinha de táticas. Você entende que a maioria das jogadas de passe rolam após a linha de scrimmage ne? Pois, isso é o que eu quis dizer com medium zone. É... talvez, eu tenha usado o termo errado, mas agora que eu me corrigi, deixa eu te humilhar pela ultima vez (ja que eu estou escrevendo isso e rindo toda vez que vc tiver que traduzir um insulto, seu imbecil.)

É bem simples na real, dps disso: Pra onde é que correm os recebedores? Para frente, isso ai. Tai minha medium zone. O que acontece quando a maior parte dos defensores está protegendo essa zona media*? Isso ai, ficamos sem espaço. Espero que vc tenha entendido agora, se quiser contra argumentar, fica a vontade baby

Agora é espera vc traduzir tudo isso, inclusive os insultos, enquanto eu vou dormir e esperar a resposta na hora do almoço de trabalho. Abraços camarada, espero que tenha valida a pena.

*Eu te dou isso, sim, foi super vaga e mal elaborada inicialmente o termo (mas também, o seu cerébro e comentários também, ne querida), mas nos ja passamos desse pont
 
Brian Daboll put up 7 straight TDs on the Pats. Should have kept Daboll. Pats kept the wrong assistant
 
Ok, so we've established you are indeed referring to 00 personnel (5 wide recievers, no TE or Backs). Again, no one uses 00 personnel. No one. practically ever. I explained above. You are wrong.
Yep, this site says only 83 snaps total this season (out of 32,509). The Bills led the league with 12, which bizarrely included 10 in week 1 and then 2 the rest of the season.

It also lists the Patriots as having 5 WRs for a first quarter, first down run for 12 yards in week 7, but the only such run was by Damien Harris. So clearly some margin for error.

 
Niners Mike Mcdaniel, Or Kevin O’Connell is intriguing.
Those are the 2 offensive coaches I like their formations and plays.
They're both offensive coordinators already, so their teams can just block the lateral move. Are you excited about the idea of Wes Phillips, Thomas Brown, or Rich Scangarello? Those are the best options I see on those coaching staffs.
 
You **** animal is this: BY DEFINITION innovation is something that "Doesn't exist". In any language, even the one you're translating (and I'll use abbreviations too, if it makes it difficult for you, hey, I learned). If I come up with an innovation for a football team, when there are millionaire coaches for that, I haven't done College/Pos/Master's in Economics and IT

Trips was an example, you little ****. Too bad you have difficulty reading even your language, but what to expect from monkeys? I already talked about this as a reference for Scotty, read the post first

lol Again, your lack of understanding of English is bizarre. The "better yet" was intended to correct free thinking, sorry, I've read books with that terminology. I also didn't know that the meticulousness of what I was writing was at this level of judgment

And I know it. So far, you've talked, criticized, cursed, but you haven't talked ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING about tactics. Nothing. Zero.

OAAAA FINALLY, a little tactics question. Do you understand that most passing plays roll past the line of scrimmage ne? Yeah, that's what I meant by medium zone. Yeah... maybe I used the wrong term, but now that I've corrected myself, let me humiliate you for the last time (since I'm writing this and laughing every time you have to translate an insult, you *******.)

It's really simple, after that: Where do receivers run? Forward, that's it. That's my medium zone. What happens when most defenders are protecting this middle zone*? That's it, we ran out of space. I hope you understand now, if you want to counter argue, feel free baby


Now it's waiting for you to translate all this, including the insults, while I go to sleep and wait for the answer at lunch time at work. Hugs buddy, I hope it was worth it.

*I give you that, yes, the term was super vague and poorly designed initially (but also, your brain and comments too, ne dear), but we are already past that point


1) So, now you are claiming that that you do not know of anything that is innovative, because it hasn't been invented yet? Ok, well, how about you show me a previous innovation that came from Josh McDaniels...or from another coach? You claim the Pats have fallen behind. Tell me what these other teams are doing.

Your 1st post:
"We gotta a Extremely succesful, legacy-setting OC, WHO HAS STOPPED INNOVATING IN YEARS AND HAS CLEARLY FALLEN BEHIND THE CONCEPTS OF THE MODERN GAME, running EVERYTHING on Offense."

2) Regarding your point of "Medium zone," you claimed the EP offense struggles to attack it. How? Show me Xs & Os in other system that do successfully attack it (because NE probably already does the same thing)? Also, I specifically pointed how good the Pats have at attacking the middle of the field with Gronk & Henry. I even pointed one type of innovative protection: Jab 144 Ctr Hot.


You seem to be avoiding the actual discussion of football. I don't find that surprising.
 
Yep, this site says only 83 snaps total this season (out of 32,509). The Bills led the league with 12, which bizarrely included 10 in week 1 and then 2 the rest of the season.

It also lists the Patriots as having 5 WRs for a first quarter, first down run for 12 yards in week 7, but the only such run was by Damien Harris. So clearly some margin for error.

I was definitely referring to personnel with no backs, as in just receivers (see BCG reply). Including TEs, just excluding RBs
 
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