Our Coordinators

[MrBigglesWorth]

The most pressing need is keeping your personnel guys for the draft and future. Need to hit on drafts and free agency

 

[Brotherblues]

At least Steve didn’t make an embarrassing face last night when the camera was on him.

The performance of his unit was embarrassing enough

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Team scored 3 points until the 4th quarter. Team went 1-4 the last 5 games.

Need a new OC asap.

Keeping this generation's Norv Turner is a total waste of time for the Patriots and BB'a limited time window left.

 

[Malua]

Bills Chiefs are my AFCCG.

And you know this is not possible this year?

 

[Pats1971]

Team scored 3 points until the 4th quarter. Team went 1-4 the last 5 games.

Need a new OC asap.

Keeping this generation's Norv Turner is a total waste of time for the Patriots and BB'a limited time window left.

So the OC was the issue? The same OC that was OC in superbowl wins?

 

[JayNM]

We're reevaluating the whole organization though? After a playoff loss?

I mean, maybe after a losing season last year, but it's not clear we're on the ascension?

In Allen's first year, the Bills had to wait for an improbable play in another game to even qualify for the playoffs. They were one and done like yesterday's Patriots. The following year they missed the payoffs altogether.

We're in a rebuilding process. We have a lot of vets long in the tooth who won't be here for long, but we have a lot of youth who are key components too.

Yes. Absolutely. In fact, in an organization playing in this uber competitive league, with the amount of money that exists going around, If i was in charge, every year that we dont win a SB, id to do thorough investigation of whats' wrong. I dont think Im crazy here, even if its practically absurd

But I gotta say, I think you are a bit narrow on the perspective. Its not about this loss. There are fundamentally bad seeds growing in Foxborough, and letting them grow (more than already has) is dangerous.

In other words: A house built in bad fundations, dont ever stay fully erect

 

[archstanton543]

So the OC was the issue? The same OC that was OC in superbowl wins?

That was then. This is now.

Also that OC had the GOAT playing QB.

 

[Foxypats]

And you know this is not possible this year?

yeah, if the Chief's win tonight which we expect them to do, then the Chief's and Bills will meet in the divisional round. I think it will be Cincy/Chief's in the AFCCG !

 

[Pats1971]

That was then. This is now.

Also that OC had the GOAT playing QB.

Its just weird when people would say Bill is God and makes all the coaches and players that as well, and now...well its not that way anymore. Now the other coaches and players are blamed.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

So the OC was the issue? The same OC that was OC in superbowl wins?

You mean the ones where tb12 was here, and where the same OC had multiple horrifically pathetic seasons without tb12? Denver'10, StLouis'11, NE'20

 

[archstanton543]

Its just weird when people would say Bill is God and makes all the coaches and players that as well, and now...well its not that way anymore. Now the other coaches and players are blamed.

Everyone gets old and everyone loses a step.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yes. Absolutely. In fact, in an organization playing in this uber competitive league, with the amount of money that exists going around, If i was in charge, every year that we dont win a SB, id to do thorough investigation of whats' wrong. I dont think Im crazy here, even if its practically absurd

But I gotta say, I think you are a bit narrow on the perspective. Its not about this loss. There are fundamentally bad seeds growing in Foxborough, and letting them grow (more than already has) is dangerous.

In other words: A house built in bad fundations, dont ever stay fully erect

100% agree.

It's the same for every company that tries to figure out if it needs to tweak, re-org, restructure or pivot entirely and re-tool.

Start with the individuals who performed and examine why they performed well/poorly
Player talent
Scheme fit
Competitive/good enough to beat competition
Do we have the right coaches
Do we have the right players
Do we have the right scheme
Do we have the right culture

If some of these answers are no....
Do we need to change player acquisition strategy
Is ownership providing the right support. If not, what do they need to do?

If you aren't evolving you are falling behind.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

First of all, we need to remember that this is a team and coaching staff that had the GOAT at QB for 19 seasons (actually 18). After last year, they made atypical moves in Free Agency and landed a quality QB in the Draft. They started slow, looked good enough for a while to outperform expectations but had their weaknesses exposed at the end. The last five or six games have shown us that there is no quick fix.

I don't see them getting rid of BB and others on his staff (I just don't see the Krafts doing that).

But I do see them teetering on an edge. On one side is a slower than we'd like rebuild, replacing pieces on the field and sidelines within their cap constraints and being competitive but not dominant for the next two or three years before challenging for championships again. On the other side is a long slide into oblivion, reminiscent of the Steelers after Noll and Bradshaw and the Cowboys after Aikman and Johnson.

 

[Pats1971]

First of all, we need to remember that this is a team and coaching staff that had the GOAT at QB for 19 seasons (actually 18). After last year, they made atypical moves in Free Agency and landed a quality QB in the Draft. They started slow, looked good enough for a while to outperform expectations but had their weaknesses exposed at the end. The last five or six games have shown us that there is no quick fix.

I don't see them getting rid of BB and others on his staff (I just don't see the Krafts doing that).

But I do see them teetering on an edge. On one side is a slower than we'd like rebuild, replacing pieces on the field and sidelines within their cap constraints and being competitive but not dominant for the next two or three years before challenging for championships again. On the other side is a long slide into oblivion, reminiscent of the Steelers after Noll and Bradshaw and the Cowboys after Aikman and Johnson.

They are not going to get rid of Bill. Bill would have to get rid of himself, there is not really anyone who controls that team more. Bill is just going to have to do things different than he had to for a long time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

First of all, we need to remember that this is a team and coaching staff that had the GOAT at QB for 19 seasons (actually 18). After last year, they made atypical moves in Free Agency and landed a quality QB in the Draft. They started slow, looked good enough for a while to outperform expectations but had their weaknesses exposed at the end. The last five or six games have shown us that there is no quick fix.

I don't see them getting rid of BB and others on his staff (I just don't see the Krafts doing that).

But I do see them teetering on an edge. On one side is a slower than we'd like rebuild, replacing pieces on the field and sidelines within their cap constraints and being competitive but not dominant for the next two or three years before challenging for championships again. On the other side is a long slide into oblivion, reminiscent of the Steelers after Noll and Bradshaw and the Cowboys after Aikman and Johnson.

They are absolutely at an inflection point.
No question and this could go on for a bit.

To go from 2000 to 2001 does not happen.

It usually takes a few years to be a SB contender.

Look at the Jills. This is Year 4 of McDemott/Allen and they are doing it right. Takes time.

 

[TheRainMaker]

And you know this is not possible this year?

I didn’t realize they were the 2 and 3 seeds which will meet next week. The winner of that game is going to beat Cincy or Tenn.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Other than st , its hard for me to blame any coordinators given what there was to work with.

If anything i feel the staff on d should be praised. Look at the cb and lb depth after jones went down and Gilmore was traded. They were major weaknesses and we somehow masked it until the last few weeks and gave up the 3rd fewest pts in the league. The defense carried us to many of the wins. Its a personnell issue there

 

[JayNM]

First of all, we need to remember that this is a team and coaching staff that had the GOAT at QB for 19 seasons (actually 18). After last year, they made atypical moves in Free Agency and landed a quality QB in the Draft. They started slow, looked good enough for a while to outperform expectations but had their weaknesses exposed at the end. The last five or six games have shown us that there is no quick fix.

I don't see them getting rid of BB and others on his staff (I just don't see the Krafts doing that).

But I do see them teetering on an edge. On one side is a slower than we'd like rebuild, replacing pieces on the field and sidelines within their cap constraints and being competitive but not dominant for the next two or three years before challenging for championships again. On the other side is a long slide into oblivion, reminiscent of the Steelers after Noll and Bradshaw and the Cowboys after Aikman and Johnson.

Good post. Now that Ian showed me how to properly search stuff, this is what i said in the early season (Some of the coaching critiscism is still the basis somewhat of my problems with the coordination, although they were hmmm maybe a bit overexxagerated)

I said in 2019 that Bill needed 3 years after Brady left to reorganize the Patriots, before we contend for real for the SB again.

Well, now I am going to be more realistic, i guess. 3 years for BB to show that he can makes us contend in the playoffs.

We are in year 2, and things are mess because of 2 things, one ~long term and other ~short term

#1 - the decision-making throughout the years are finally taking its toll. You cant go 10 years or something without drafting single probowler and/or you need to have some good draft to at least build depth on the team. The Patriots didnt really have that, most our back-ups arent on rookie-contract and they arent perfoming all that well (except for 21 class). The great players that were our core are old, so they need replacements, but we dont have ANYBODY ready to take over. And finally the Gilmore and Thuney decision have started to look much worse.

#2 - Coaching this year has been plainly cowardly and stupid. No other way around it. There is no other explanation for that punt on OT against that Dallas offense. There is no explanation for the lack of 4th down tries. There is no explanation for the conservatism on the playcall for 90% of our games. There was a thread here, but it got closed. I agree wholeheartedly.

If by 2022 we dont became a good team.

Fire BB

That makes it easier to explain my whole pov.

By the end of 2021, we are absolutely on track to be a contender in 2022. (very different from the 2-4 beginning, when this post was made iirc). So Bill definitely has bough at least one more year, maybe two with Jones.

But Ill go on a limb and say something that wont be agreed by many in this forum.

BB needs to be evaluated in the present (as in evr year, then 3 or 5 years or smtg), just like every coach (and Manager). As much as I love him, Im being 100% "logically" focused now: This is a league of "what you can do for me?", not "what did you do?". This also applies to the Hoodied GOAT

Fortunately, 2021 is a big success. Really. Good to great draft, good free agency, not mortgaging the future with contracts. Yes the personnel is old, but that was bound to happen, like many said.

2022 Offseason is still huge. Maybe not as huge as 2021, but if we fail at FA AND Draft, we are in more trouble than its going to appear at first

 

[Scotty]

I wanna raise this discussion for you guys. I wanna hear your thoughts on this , and as much as angry as I am with the outcome of the game, Ill try to answer to your bad different reasoning with a peaceful mind

Aight...

We CANT stay with ALL OF OUR COORDINATORS.
Like, outside of football. This is THE CRAZIEST, BIGGEST, MOST FLAGRANT red flags possible. A "cornerstone" of the previous legacy, ailed by the son-of-the-genius-boss. Man. This is a recipe for absolute disaster.

Lets start with McD:

We gotta a Extremely succesful, legacy-setting OC, WHO HAS STOPPED INNOVATING IN YEARS AND HAS CLEARLY FALLEN BEHIND THE CONCEPTS OF THE MODERN GAME, running EVERYTHING on Offense. We are in a McVay/Shannahan-style life on offense, we need to work in Trips WRs, we need to put a lot of people in motion, and we gotta design play to put the ball in our playmakers hands (whoever they are). The fluidity of options given by the EP system is awesome. Its also outdated, when you are facing 6 DBS, and 2 LBs who can cover the whole field, and there arent any spaces left in the medium zone, where the EP is optimal. WE NEED TO CHANGE. Im not even dwelling into play calling, and I will even end on a higher note for Josh: He should be working exclusively with Mac. Good ol' Qb coach, as in the good days. Let the offense look for new blood.

Now...

Steve Bellichick.

There is not a world where I think its okay for this guy to be our DC. If Mayo leaves and he is retained as our top guy, I will be FUMMING. I hate the new forum search*, so Im gonna avoid trying to repeat what I said previously: WHAT DOES HE BRING TO THE TABLE? What capacities has he earned, except by being part of the best well-oiled machine in pro-sports for 20 years, in maybe ever? Stop and think about it. Everything he learned was IN-HOUSE. Does that mean that he isnt qualified? Of course not. BUT HE GREW IN A SYSTEM RUNNED BY HIS ****ING FATHER. Even if we disregard the most obvious, blatant bias that exists in nature (the family-bond), He is a guy who knows exactly what to do to be "well-viewed". Thats the killer of nepotism, he knows, literraly, the annals of whats good and bad, in the eyes of his daddy. Man... I can stress this enough... Ive worked with companies that literally went out of business bc of this

There, this is my rant. Im ready for 2022 season babyyy


*Sorry @Ian , I can never find what i need (and i could on the previous format), although its literally my only problem with it.

Jay,

Agree with your para on McD....Is the team living too much in the past and it has now caught up with them. Think the questions has to be asked. I do not have the knowledge to argue either way but this should be part of the season review.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Prediction... Steve belichick moved to special teams coach and patricia to d coordinator... Don't really care for either