OT: Roethlisberger not exactly a gentleman on the night of the incident

[Fencer]

Nice logical proofs, but my experience tells me that someone who treats women like garbage and calls them demeaning names, aggressively hits on the wives of his fans, is accused of rape in in another incident, and displayed boorish behavior on the night in question, is more likely to commit sexual assault than someone who hasn't been on record as doing those things. And how exactly does everyone get away with saying "he is not more likely, blah, blah, blah." I take it none of you have taken courses in criminal profiling or domestic violence. BR's characteristics are basic red flags of someone is more likely to be violent and abusive. Please don't confuse what it is admissible in a courtroom versus what is common sense outside the courtroom.

Or to put it another way, there are a few kinds of sexual assault charges:

• Totally true, give or take the small details that people always misremember (the most common kind by far)
• Largely true, in that the guy acted very badly, but the woman also overreacted some in understandable fright
• False -- she was trying to get back at him for lesser bad behavior, or had some other motive, or she's just nuts

Common sense suggests that this story is most likely in one of the first two categories.

 

[condon84]

Lets keep in mind that this is America and any suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

Just because he's a douche doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty of the sexual assault charge.

All these recent reports about his neanderthal behavior is typical of what the media does when something like this happens. They prey on everyone's thirst for negative information because it's what sells. People love watching celebreties fall.

 

[JMarr]

Lets keep in mind that this is America and any suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

Just because he's a douche doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty of the sexual assault charge.

All these recent reports about his neanderthal behavior is typical of what the media does when something like this happens. They prey on everyone's thirst for negative information because it's what sells. People love watching celebreties fall.[/QUOTE]



1. Obviously, but this guy sounds like he's setting the bar for a-holeness at a new level

2. True, but the gravy times, the media and their celebrity enablers prop them up into sacred cow status, and in most cases try to protect them and hide the truth (knowing or having reason to know what they've been up to and that they're d-bags), until the floodgates finally open and they have no choice but to join in on the feeding frenzy in a viscious circle of fan fascination at seeing colossal falls from grace and the media's predictable stoking of it.. See Ben R., Tiger Woods, Michael Jackson... the list goes on forever.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Lets keep in mind that this is America and any suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

Just because he's a douche doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty of the sexual assault charge.

All these recent reports about his neanderthal behavior is typical of what the media does when something like this happens. They prey on everyone's thirst for negative information because it's what sells. People love watching celebreties fall.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty as a legal status. As a matter of public opinion and intellectual freedom, that clause does not apply. O.J. Simpson murdered his ex-wife and her boyfriend. He was found innocent. Does that mean he didn't do it?

In my mind, BR is guilty of sexual assault. I'm not a jury member, just a citizen. Reasonable doubt, chain of evidence, those things don't apply. I see obvious facts that point to an obvious fact. If new evidence shows that I am wrong, I'll eat crow. Innocent people do not try to avoid DNA tests and interviews, and seldom do they find themselves embroiled in two similar lawsuits.

And no, I don't buy the "high profile athlete" is a target argument. Again, I don't see lawsuits for LeBron James, Tom Brady, and hundreds of other sports superstars. Bottom line is, BR goes into the bathroom with woman and locks door/ blocks with security guards. Something happens. Woman runs to police and checks into hospital with head injury. BR says she slipped and hit her head... wow, how unfortunate and coincidental that this freak accident would occur in the presence of a proven scumbag. Weird that he didn't help her walk outside. BR then hires d-bag defense attorney and sleazy investigator to dig up dirt. BR's legal team then stonewalls police. For what reason would I not think he's guilty. Oh, I forgot to mention that BR is also accused of raping another woman... probably just an unfortunate coincidence, since there are just thousands of public rape accusations against high-profile athletes, right? It would be nice to see justice served to a celebrity for once.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Open contempt for basic logic is a great quality to have.

What is illogical about what he's saying? Rape is very much about power and treating women with utter disrespect is a common characteristic of rapists, this by itself doesn't mean BR raped the woman but when you start looking at his pattern of behavior and the parties stories his becomes less and less believable.

 

[jbb9s]

I know this is hearsay and will probably piss off half the board, but I have two close friends who were at Miami-Ohio at the same time as Mr Roethlisberger. Lets just say he acted inappropriately on several occasions and said some really nasty things to the coed population. Obviously nothing to this accusers extent but still stuff that only guys should be able to get away with on their bachelor party in a Thai go-go bar.

I think everyone at that level lets it slide because unfortunately 90% of the girls went along with him for the glory and the other 10% probably were too embarrassed to really make a big deal about it. Plus he didn't have any money then so why waste the time. Thats ultimately the big problem with prosecuting this kind of crime: the accuser becomes a victim and so they don't feel like going public.

 

[condon84]

Yes, innocent until proven guilty as a legal status. As a matter of public opinion and intellectual freedom, that clause does not apply. O.J. Simpson murdered his ex-wife and her boyfriend. He was found innocent. Does that mean he didn't do it?

In my mind, BR is guilty of sexual assault. I'm not a jury member, just a citizen. Reasonable doubt, chain of evidence, those things don't apply. I see obvious facts that point to an obvious fact. If new evidence shows that I am wrong, I'll eat crow. Innocent people do not try to avoid DNA tests and interviews, and seldom do they find themselves embroiled in two similar lawsuits.

And no, I don't buy the "high profile athlete" is a target argument. Again, I don't see lawsuits for LeBron James, Tom Brady, and hundreds of other sports superstars. Bottom line is, BR goes into the bathroom with woman and locks door/ blocks with security guards. Something happens. Woman runs to police and checks into hospital with head injury. BR says she slipped and hit her head... wow, how unfortunate and coincidental that this freak accident would occur in the presence of a proven scumbag. Weird that he didn't help her walk outside. BR then hires d-bag defense attorney and sleazy investigator to dig up dirt. BR's legal team then stonewalls police. For what reason would I not think he's guilty. Oh, I forgot to mention that BR is also accused of raping another woman... probably just an unfortunate coincidence, since there are just thousands of public rape accusations against high-profile athletes, right? It would be nice to see justice served to a celebrity for once.

OJ Simpson case is a poor comparison simply because that trial already happened, evidence and arguments have already been made, and reports of tampering and f#ck ups by LAPD came out. All these facts are already out there allowing the public to make a more educated argument as to why he was guilty.

Rothelisburger hasn't been officially charged yet. It's still under investigation. Right now, it's her word against his. His case last year was not a criminal case, it was a civil case. Was he criminally charged? If all evidence pointed to him raping that girl last year, the district prosecuter in that area would have gone after him. Why hasn't he/she?

You're basically assuming he's guilty based on the evidence that the media has provided that he's a douchebag. That's kinda scary.

 

[livinginthe past]

OJ Simpson case is a poor comparison simply because that trial already happened, evidence and arguments have already been made, and reports of tampering and f#ck ups by LAPD came out. All these facts are already out there allowing the public to make a more educated argument as to why he was guilty.

Rothelisburger hasn't been officially charged yet. It's still under investigation. Right now, it's her word against his. His case last year was not a criminal case, it was a civil case. Was he criminally charged? If all evidence pointed to him raping that girl last year, the district prosecuter in that area would have gone after him. Why hasn't he/she?

You're basically assuming he's guilty based on the evidence that the media has provided that he's a douchebag. That's kinda scary.

Exactly.

Its also weird to try and make such a strong link between a guy at college-age making disparaging remarks, or displaying neanderthal behaviour and being presumed guilty of sexual assault.

I mean really, 'boorish behavior' is not that rare on college campus is it?

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Big Ben's face assaulted my windshield

 

[Triumph]

I know this is hearsay and will probably piss off half the board, but I have two close friends who were at Miami-Ohio at the same time as Mr Roethlisberger. Lets just say he acted inappropriately on several occasions and said some really nasty things to the coed population. Obviously nothing to this accusers extent but still stuff that only guys should be able to get away with on their bachelor party in a Thai go-go bar.

I think everyone at that level lets it slide because unfortunately 90% of the girls went along with him for the glory and the other 10% probably were too embarrassed to really make a big deal about it. Plus he didn't have any money then so why waste the time. Thats ultimately the big problem with prosecuting this kind of crime: the accuser becomes a victim and so they don't feel like going public.

Thanks. Good info.

Arnold Palmer (has some connection to Pitt) is rumored to despise Ben Gay and thinks he is a big D bag too.

 

[upstater1]

Lets keep in mind that this is America and any suspect is innocent until proven guilty.

Just because he's a douche doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty of the sexual assault charge.

All these recent reports about his neanderthal behavior is typical of what the media does when something like this happens. They prey on everyone's thirst for negative information because it's what sells. People love watching celebreties fall.

Pittsburgh is a small town. This isn't media driven hearsay. I live 3 1/2 hours away and even I have firsthand info.

 

[upstater1]

I probably shouldn't be getting involved here, but I just want to point out the following.

"All rapists treat women like crap" does not imply ANYTHING about treating women like crap. Just like "All rapists are human" doesn't say anything about humans.

BTW Mr Worthlessberger idiot, I'm not defending you, ya piece o' crap!

I really can't understand the point you're making.

I don't even know what this means: "All rapists treat women like crap" does not imply ANYTHING about treating women like crap.

 

[upstater1]

Exactly. You might as well point to the fact that he plays football and say that he's a violent person, and therefore more likely to rape someone. There are a LOT of people who treat women like crap, and the vast majority of them aren't rapists.

Might as well say that because Tom Brady plays in the NFL, and NFL players are more likely to be violent criminals, then Tom Brady is probably a thug.

Is it the "vast majority" or just the "majority?"

Or do you disbelieve the rape statistics?

 

[condon84]

Pittsburgh is a small town. This isn't media driven hearsay. I live 3 1/2 hours away and even I have firsthand info.

I'm not disputing these reports that portray Burger as a douche. He probably is a scumbag and the fact that the Steeler fans have to root for this type of person puts a smile on my face.

My point was that this is how the media works. If someone starts receiving negative press, then they'll pile in and dig up other stuff. No one's perfect. There's going to be some dirt on everybody, including Brady. If Brady ever gets in trouble, be it by the law or negative press, you can be assured that they'll look into his past, dig up some dirt and pile on.

So as of right now, although I can't stand the Steelers, I'm going to reserve my judgement and wait for all the facts to come out and have both sides present their arguement.

 

[livinginthe past]

I really can't understand the point you're making.

I don't even know what this means: "All rapists treat women like crap" does not imply ANYTHING about treating women like crap.

He's making a point about faulty logical deduction.

Just because every member of Al Qaeda is Muslim, it doesn't hold true that every Muslim is a member of Al Qaeda.

 

[Kontradiction]

He's making a point about faulty logical deduction.

Just because every member of Al Qaeda is Muslim, it doesn't hold true that every Muslim is a member of Al Qaeda.

It's pretty clear that many people in here have not taken any sort of course in critical thinking. This is a pretty easy way to explain it to these same people. However, I don't think they'll be listening to you. One can also make the point that many women treat their peers (other women) like crap in some form or fashion, whether it's verbally cutting their appearance down, their weight, height, etc. The word "b!tch" is more commonly used amongst women than it is by a man toward a woman. So then, by the logic in this thread, I guess that means that many women are also rapists.

:bricks:

 

[BradyFTW!]

Is it the "vast majority" or just the "majority?"

Or do you disbelieve the rape statistics?

You're calling me on the assertion that most jerks aren't rapists? ...wow. Yes, I stand by that, and no, it has nothing to do with disbelieving rape statistics.

Man, this forum has really fallen off a cliff in the last couple of days.

 

[emoney_33]

common sense isn't so common

 

[upstater1]

I'm not disputing these reports that portray Burger as a douche. He probably is a scumbag and the fact that the Steeler fans have to root for this type of person puts a smile on my face.

My point was that this is how the media works. If someone starts receiving negative press, then they'll pile in and dig up other stuff. No one's perfect. There's going to be some dirt on everybody, including Brady. If Brady ever gets in trouble, be it by the law or negative press, you can be assured that they'll look into his past, dig up some dirt and pile on.

So as of right now, although I can't stand the Steelers, I'm going to reserve my judgement and wait for all the facts to come out and have both sides present their arguement.

I, for one, never said he absolutely did commit what he's accused of. I will say, though, from my reading, this was not sexual intercourse. So, whatever happened, was of a different variety.

 

[upstater1]

He's making a point about faulty logical deduction.

Just because every member of Al Qaeda is Muslim, it doesn't hold true that every Muslim is a member of Al Qaeda.

Did someone make that point?