Re: OT: Revis wants 20M per year....
Part I
Thats not really true. YOU were the one harping on those 2.
Not that I really care to get into a pissing contest with you, but here is my second response to you...
Our coach has a very intersting opinion when it comes to stats. Statistical analysis is important in a discussion like this, but it is hardly the know-all, end-all in any sport. Terrell Owens, Steve Smith, Marques Colston, and Roddy White are extremely talented receivers who have given opposing CB's fits in their time in the league. Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and Randy Moss fall into the same category as those four and had impressive seasons. Despite any down seasons, it's pretty widely recognized that Revis faced a tough line-up.
Then here is the first part of your response to that...
I guess I'll just drop it because to tell me that Steve Smith and Terrell Owens WHEN THEY ARENT PRODUCING HIGHLY AGAINST PRETTY MUCH ANYONE, whether it because of them or their QB are tough competition is just something I don't buy.
You pretty much completely ignored mentions of Colston, White (I'm guessing because they had capable QB's), Moss, and Johnson and specifically zoned in on Steve Smith. Pretty clearly, it was you who decided to harp on those two. I've simply responded to your posts.
Whether or not he 'shut down' anyone is irrelevent to discussing the quality of competition he faced, as is listing reasons why they were weak competition, such as the QB.
No it isn't. Most of these guys he faced had great to solid seasons. The fact that he shut them down when the vast majority of other CB's in the league were unable to do so (which is what our debate about the level of competition essentially is centered around) is absolutely relevant.
Who is tougher competition TO with Fitzpatrick throwing to him, or Miles Ausitn with Romo throwing to him, to name 1?
So wait, now you DO want to argue Nmandi/Revis? That's fine. I can play this game too. Who is tougher competition? Miles Austin with Romo throwing to him or Randy Moss with Tom Brady throwing to him (twice in one year, no less)? What exactly were you hoping to accomplish with this statement?
Not really relevent because all #1s burn some corners, but half are still below average competition as #1s.
Clearly, if said #1 is burning more CB's than he isn't, he is having a decent season is he not? With Smith, he had good games matched up against Antoine Winfield, DeAngelo Hall, and our slew of corners off of the top of my head. Both Winfield and Hall are looked at as above average corners and, even with the quarterback situation holding him back, he was still able to have success against them when matched up on them. Not so against Revis. Owens had good games matched up against Cortland Finnegan and Rashean Mathis yet was shut down by Revis. Randy Moss had success when matched up against Buffalo, Miami, Atlanta, Tennessee, and Indy. In two games against the Jets, going against Revis and OPENLY wanting to beat Revis, Moss was held to his lowest yardage total of any game in the season. Do I need to tell you about Andre Johnson? Johnson saw his lowest yardage total of the season when matched up against Revis.
If you want to talk competition, then you should consider everyone he played against instead of focusing soley on two guys. Smith and Owens are not at the top of the list, but they've been two of the best receivers in the NFL in the last decade. Revis shut Moss down twice and he'll eventually be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Many people ALREADY look at Moss as the second best WR of all time behind Jerry Rice. Colston was a 1,000 yard receiver in 2008 and was solid this season. He saw his production drop due to the overwhelming amount of weapons the Saints had in 2009. That doesn't change the fact that he's an extremely talented, big bodied receiver who has Drew Brees throwing him the ball. Mike Sims-Walker is an up and comer who exploded on the scene this year and almost had a 900 yard season despite playing in a run first offense with David Garrard throwing him the ball. Roddy White had an 1,100 yard season with 11 TD's. He gave most of the CB's he faced a hard time this season and yet had one of his worst games when matched up with Revis. If you want to throw out what he did against Reggie Wayne (another top receiver in the NFL in 2009) during the regular season, I won't fight you on it. That's why I put a star next to that game earlier in the thread. But, if you're going to do that then you should look at the AFCCG, a game in which he did shut down Wayne throughout the entire contest.
Disposing of all of these guys and cherry picking two names out of there to try to make an argument is bad form, at best. You essentially sound like you're arguing on how you feel (and we all know how you feel) instead of arguing based on facts.
Irrelevent. This discussion is not at all about how he played. I concurred that he had a very good season.
Sorry, but you pretty clearly don't believe this if you keep arguing that he did it against "sub-par" competition.
This discussion is about your claim that his play should be considered even better because he played against the best comeptition anyone has faced in years. That means if Terrence Newman faced tougher competition and allowed 300 yards a game, you are wrong.
If Terrence Newman, who is a pretty good corner, faced the competition that Revis did, played man coverage against him the majority of the time, shadowed that receiver down the field, and still did what Revis was able to do against the CB's mentioned, this thread would be about me praising him. As it stands, Revis did all of this. So I am here now applauding him.
As for what you quoted, I don't see at all how it's irrelevant. Against the Colts top receiver, Revis shut him down. That was the highest level of competition they could offer him. Lesser competition, or competition that Revis was not covering, both went on to have outstanding games simply because Wayne (once again, one of the top receivers in the league) was taken out of the game. Seeing as Wayne was one of Revis' competition and was outstanding competition at that, it is plenty relevant to point out how he did. Dismissing it as irrelevant when that isn't the case simply tells me that you don't have much of a counter argument.
What does that have to do with anything? My argument is not stat based at all. My argument is that the overall quality of the #1 WRs on the Jets schedule last year was no more than average. You can say anything you want about TO, but if you are facing the Bills on a given Sunday in 2009 and your job is to cover the #1 WR you have an easier day than almost all of the other 31 corners who will do that job that day.
Seriously, Andy? Your argument has been ABSOLUTELY stat based. You've used stats that I posted about Steve Smith and Terrell Owens' numbers to try to center your argument on saying that they are no longer #1 WR's. You've used stats to try to make an argument for Nmandi because "only 28 passes were thrown his way". You've used stats to try to make a claim that he faced weak passing offenses.
But the WRs that ACTUALLY produced more were tougher competition.
I never made a claim that Smith and Owens were the toughest competition. I claimed that they were tough competiton on a tough schedule. Randy Moss was top of the line competition. Shut down twice. Andre Johnson was the top receiver in the NFL last season. He had is worst game against Revis. Reggie Wayne was all but taken out of the AFCCG and was a ghost in the first half of the first meeting. All three of these guys were in the top five of receivers last year. Trying to dismiss this as not being top competition is assanine.
