OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[RicoG]

He might have been. Looked like either he went the wrong way or Godwin being held caused it. The game really was ridiculous with the flags going one way. A bunch of flags against the Bucs on fouls that didn’t effect the play. And no flags on a few obvious plays that did effect the play, like that one. Like “well, it’s the letter of the law” one way, and “let em play” the other.

I also rewatched the replay of Winston's injury as it just seems impossible that D. White could have stopped a 6'5 250 pound guy running forward with just 5 fingers on a jersey.

It was definitely not a horse tackle as almost simultaneously Winston was trying to stop to juke out Bucs#54 in front of him which caused D.White to overshot Winston and grab the jersey. Winston was pull back, not thrown down, and he got injured as he was already in an awkward position.

 

[Deus Irae]

Not Johnson's fault. He was held for 10 yards pass the line of scrimmage. Of course no call but later when the Bucs ****rell did it right after the 5 yard line, a penalty was immediately called.

Godwin was in the area too. It seemed he got tangled with the defender just long enough to be out of position. I couldn't tell if it was because he was held.

Yeah, I probably should have been clearer. The reason the pick was even there to be made was because the defender was committing illegal contact well past the allowed area, and the WR couldn't break clean and speed by what was supposed to be the man underneath.

 

[Deus Irae]

I also rewatched the replay of Winston's injury as it just seems impossible that D. White could have stopped a 6'5 250 pound guy running forward with just 5 fingers on a jersey.

It was definitely not a horse tackle as almost simultaneously Winston was trying to stop to juke out Bucs#54 in front of him which caused D.White to overshot Winston and grab the jersey. Winston was pull back, not thrown down, and he got injured as he was already in an awkward position.

It wasn't a horse collar tackle, as it was much more at the shoulder than collar. When that's a call, you might just as well ban tackling from behind.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

No, no penalty here at all. Just a game changing play. But the whistle can’t be blown fast enough for numerous borderline personal fouls the other way.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It wasn't a horse collar tackle, as it was much more at the shoulder than collar. When that's a call, you might just as well ban tackling from behind.

I think it was the correct call (one of the few), even though it’s not really why the rule exists. It exists because players would get pulled from behind with no idea it was coming, whereas in this case Winston sort of forced White to grab the back of his jersey when trying to go past him. I don’t recall many horse collars that were (a) the result of the offensive player making a juke move, (b) approaching from the front/side and not from behind, and (c) a grab of the jersey and not the collar.

However, the tackle still does qualify as a penalty under the rules.

A. He does grab Winston’s jersey at the name plate…you can see his hand on the name.
B. He does pull Winston towards the ground.
C. Winston, while a QB, is outside the pocket and tackle box.

 

[RicoG]

I think it was the correct call (one of the few), even though it’s not really why the rule exists. It exists because players would get pulled from behind with no idea it was coming, whereas in this case Winston sort of forced White to grab the back of his jersey when trying to go past him. I don’t recall many horse collars that were (a) the result of the offensive player making a juke move, (b) approaching from the front/side and not from behind, and (c) a grab of the jersey and not the collar.

However, the tackle still does qualify as a penalty under the rules.

A. He does grab Winston’s jersey at the name plate…you can see his hand on the name.
B. He does pull Winston towards the ground.
C. Winston, while a QB, is outside the pocket and tackle box.

We disagree on B as the spirit of the rule is that the offensive player does not get slammed to the ground and for player safety.

D.White pulled him back. He did not throw him to the ground. It was Winston simultaneously putting on the breaks to juke out Bucs54 that was the main reason to fall awkwardly.

Winston should have slid, instead of thinking he is a running back.

It is exactly what Brady talked about a couple weeks back. That defensive players are being penalized by the boneheaded plays of the offensive players.

Furthermore, these running QBs are purposely putting themselves in a position to get injured and the NFL is making it the responsibility of the defensive players that they don't.

 

[amfootball]

We disagree on B as the spirit of the rule is that the offensive player does not get slammed to the ground and for player safety.

D.White pulled him back. He did not throw him to the ground. It was Winston simultaneously putting on the breaks to juke out Bucs54 that was the main reason to fall awkwardly.

Winston should have slid, instead of thinking he is a running back.

It is exactly what Brady talked about a couple weeks back. That defensive players are being penalized by the boneheaded plays of the offensive players.

Furthermore, these running QBs are purposely putting themselves in a position to get injured and the NFL is making it the responsibility of the defensive players that they don't.

I agree. I really didn't see anything in White's tackle that warranted a horse collar. He did not grab inside the jersey. In fact, he kind of just swiped at him and grabbed his jersey but Winston was at an awkward position from running so his leg bent. White certainly did not throw him to the ground at all. I get why it was called given the optics but on replay it was not a penalty IMO.

 

[amfootball]

We should really discuss the Saints post-Winston. Apparently they tried to trade for OBJ yesterday which means they know Thomas is probably done for the season. My guess is they go with Hill and if he seems like he can't get it done then they transition to Siemian which is what I hope they do as Siemian is awful. Also, Philip Rivers said he would be interested in the job if they called. I really hope that does not happen even though I think Rivers is washed. With Payton at his coach, that could be scary.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

We should really discuss the Saints post-Winston. Apparently they tried to trade for OBJ yesterday which means they know Thomas is probably done for the season. My guess is they go with Hill and if he seems like he can't get it done then they transition to Siemian which is what I hope they do as Siemian is awful. Also, Philip Rivers said he would be interested in the job if they called. I really hope that does not happen even though I think Rivers is washed. With Payton at his coach, that could be scary.

The Saints have that Carolina divisional loss. The Bucs will need to beat them at home or they probably won’t win the division. Saints play Falcons Sunday and then Bills next Thursday. If they come out of that 7-2 then Payton really is on another level.

Yeah, hopefully Rivers won’t join them, but that’s a cool storyline if he does. Hill and Siemian suck.

 

[Guts]

We should really discuss the Saints post-Winston. Apparently they tried to trade for OBJ yesterday which means they know Thomas is probably done for the season. My guess is they go with Hill and if he seems like he can't get it done then they transition to Siemian which is what I hope they do as Siemian is awful. Also, Philip Rivers said he would be interested in the job if they called. I really hope that does not happen even though I think Rivers is washed. With Payton at his coach, that could be scary.

You know looking back at the game and re-watching it, the Bucs actually moved the ball rather well vs the Saints unlike last season just all those penalties and Brady having an off day. I think they demolish them next game.

 

[amfootball]

You know looking back at the game and re-watching it, the Bucs actually moved the ball rather well vs the Saints unlike last season just all those penalties and Brady having an off day. I think they demolish them next game.

I agree. The game kind of turned with Brady's fumble when it was 7-7. Once Winston went out, it should have been game over but the defense was just so bad and so many penalties, many of them were phantom. Brady had a great second half save for his last pass. That bomb to Evans was such a dime. I have little fear of the Saints when the Bucs get them back at Tampa with either Hill or Siemian as their QB. It really was a prefect confluence of things to give the Saints that game and really with ALL that went wrong, the Bucs had the ball at the end to win with just a FG.

 

[amfootball]

Figured this was coming.

Michael Thomas announces he will not play this season - ProFootballTalk (nbcsports.com)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Things change quickly.

• Packers now very likely to lose Sunday to Chiefs
• Rodgers can’t even return until Saturday, 11/13, one day before Seahawks game
• Russell Wilson likely to return for that game
• Team likely to undergo major turmoil based on Rodgers situation, answering for apparent Rodgers protocol violations, plus Jordan Love starting and practicing the entire next week.
• Someone brought up that Rodgers is almost certainly a close contact with Adams and Lazard…based on unvaccinated protocols, how was he allowed to play versus Arizona? All signs point to him being treated as vaxed.

 

[amfootball]

Things change quickly.

• Packers now very likely to lose Sunday to Chiefs
• Rodgers can’t even return until Saturday, 11/13, one day before Seahawks game
• Russell Wilson likely to return for that game
• Team likely to undergo major turmoil based on Rodgers situation, answering for apparent Rodgers protocol violations, plus Jordan Love starting and practicing the entire next week.
• Someone brought up that Rodgers is almost certainly a close contact with Adams and Lazard…based on unvaccinated protocols, how was he allowed to play versus Arizona? All signs point to him being treated as vaxed.

I agree with all of this except point #1. I think Love can perform well enough to win. Jones should feast on that D and Mahomes will still turn the ball over.

Point 2 - Did Rodgers just test today?

 

[VectorPrime]

Oh man Rodgers isn’t just out this week there is some more stuff coming out that he was faking being vaxxed and the team knew and didn’t follow the Covid protocols anyway.

 

[Guts]

Oh man Rodgers isn’t just out this week there is some more stuff coming out that he was faking being vaxxed and the team knew and didn’t follow the Covid protocols anyway.

If the Packers knew then they should be fined more than what we were. Whichever stance you are on the vaccine doesnt matter it's about the protocols placed by the league since the beginning.

 

[amfootball]

If the Packers knew then they should be fined more than what we were. Whichever stance you are on the vaccine doesnt matter it's about the protocols placed by the league since the beginning.

Rodgers should be suspended for lying.

 

[Guts]

Rodgers should be suspended for lying.

His apologists are saying that he didn't lie because he said "immunized".

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I agree with all of this except point #1. I think Love can perform well enough to win. Jones should feast on that D and Mahomes will still turn the ball over.

Point 2 - Did Rodgers just test today?

Spread went from pick em to Chiefs -8, so while anything can happen, it’s a big swing in probability.

I believe the test was today. Florio reported on the date he can return, which is 10 days out. That assumes he’s asymptomatic.

 

[amfootball]

Spread went from pick em to Chiefs -8, so while anything can happen, it’s a big swing in probability.

I believe the test was today. Florio reported on the date he can return, which is 10 days out. That assumes he’s asymptomatic.

Thanks.

There might also be other Packer players that test given Rodgers was not following protocols. This could be a real dumpster fire.