OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[VectorPrime]

How the game went sort of reminds me of the Pat's SB loss to Philly.

Defenses were brutal in both games. But somehow Brady's teams were still in it and in a position to win. Brady was playing fantastic until the end.

In the Philly game, a player was wide open 10-15 yards deep (I think Amendola) but Brady was looking to go deeper and had a loss fumble.

In both games, Brady had enough time to March down the field.

It was an odd week for the MVP leaders. They either had meh stats or their team lost.

It’s not that similar. At the end of SB 52 the pocket collapsed because Shaq Mason got owned and the defender forced the fumble. Yes White was open but if Brady had a bit more time Gronk might have gotten open. Also he needed a TD to retake the lead, not a field goal. A totally different type of urgency.

In this game Brady just made a bad and risky throw when he just needed a field goal to win.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It’s not that similar. At the end of SB 52 the pocket collapsed because Shaq Mason got owned and the defender forced the fumble. Yes White was open but if Brady had a bit more time Gronk might have gotten open. Also he needed a TD to retake the lead, not a field goal. A totally different type of urgency.

In this game Brady just made a bad and risky throw when he just needed a field goal to win.

The throw reminded me of the last desperation drive in the 2006 AFCCG loss to Indy. Tried to throw to Watson and just didn’t see the safety.

 

[VectorPrime]

The throw reminded me of the last desperation drive in the 2006 AFCCG loss to Indy. Tried to throw to Watson and just didn’t see the safety.

I do not believe I’ve seen a single replay of that play. I saw it live and that’s it.

 

[Deus Irae]

The throw reminded me of the last desperation drive in the 2006 AFCCG loss to Indy. Tried to throw to Watson and just didn’t see the safety.

It reminded me of a lot of the Brady INTs in Tampa. WRs not running routes properly, and the QB paying for it.


But, in this case, one can't be sure whether the depth issue was on the QB or the WR, and we can't believe anyone who tells us (and that includes Arians, who's gotten this obviously wrong in the past).

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I do not believe I’ve seen a single replay of that play. I saw it live and that’s it.

Lol…take my advice and keep it that way.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It reminded me of a lot of the Brady INTs in Tampa. WRs not running routes properly, and the QB paying for it.


But, in this case, one can't be sure whether the depth issue was on the QB or the WR, and we can't believe anyone who tells us (and that includes Arians, who's gotten this obviously wrong in the past).

All I could see on the TV angle was:

1. Bernard never got out of the pocket, so that might have been problem #1.
2. The lone high safety was clearly bracketing Godwin, so with a simple, amateur take, it didn’t look like the best decision…BUT Godwin was doubled most of the game and Brady still connected with him a lot.
3. Evans was open crossing over the middle, but not by much, and he might have been short of the first down.
4. No one was really open. Brate and Johnson were covered.

 

[Tottie]

,

I’m not sure why people think this. Historically these are often decided by record and stats. Given that criteria, I think the only years Brady got jobbed on the MVP were:

2015: But the team crumbled down the stretch. It wasn’t really Tom’s issue with all the injuries, but Belichick kicking off in OT to the Jets and then pissing away the Miami game was the dagger. Brady was better than Newton, but Newton was 15-1 and had the RuShInG StAts too.

2016: The league/ Deflategate were most to blame. Brady did get a lot of MVP consideration despite playing 12 games. And Ryan did have a historically good season.

2017 was a bit of a makeup call, as it was far from Brady’s best season.

Outside of the total BS with Manning, I think the voters are generally consistent. I do think basing it on stats, with little regard to supporting cast and responsibility, is dumb. And passer rating as the main stat is also dumb. But the award is almost always decided by that. Get the #1 seed and be the most impressive on paper, and you’re likely to win.

Fair point on MVP usually having the stats. What I'm thinking about is a scenario like the following: Stafford gets #1 seed and is top 5 in stats and maybe #1 in rating. Brady leads in TDs and yards and other stats. PFF #1 rated QB for the season and they win the division / 3 seed. The Stafford/LA media love affair may play a role in the voting imo, or do you think in this scenario Brady still gets it?

Edit: To add to this scenario: If you replace Brady with Manning or Mahomes posting these #s at 44 or even any age, do you see it playing the same way you would Brady.

 

[Deus Irae]

All I could see on the TV angle was:

1. Bernard never got out of the pocket, so that might have been problem #1.
2. The lone high safety was clearly bracketing Godwin, so with a simple, amateur take, it didn’t look like the best decision…BUT Godwin was doubled most of the game and Brady still connected with him a lot.
3. Evans was open crossing over the middle, but not by much, and he might have been short of the first down.
4. No one was really open. Brate and Johnson were covered.

If Godwin had broken his route a step earlier, he's got the catch. That's why I don't know which player to pin it on.

 

[Tottie]

All I could see on the TV angle was:

1. Bernard never got out of the pocket, so that might have been problem #1.
2. The lone high safety was clearly bracketing Godwin, so with a simple, amateur take, it didn’t look like the best decision…BUT Godwin was doubled most of the game and Brady still connected with him a lot.
3. Evans was open crossing over the middle, but not by much, and he might have been short of the first down.
4. No one was really open. Brate and Johnson were covered.

Ya I think the route adjustment might of been off by Godwin, but Brady shouldn't of thrown it there to begin with. That's what seems to be the talk about this from people that know where more than I do.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Based on the absolute mental ownage of Payton over the Bucs, did anyone here believe the Bucs would win on a field goal, after they got the ball? I sure didn’t.

 

[amfootball]

Based on the absolute mental ownage of Payton over the Bucs, did anyone here believe the Bucs would win on a field goal, after they got the ball? I sure didn’t.

I did just because Brady was having a great second half.

 

[RicoG]

Based on the absolute mental ownage of Payton over the Bucs, did anyone here believe the Bucs would win on a field goal, after they got the ball? I sure didn’t.

I did until Brady started with a bomb downfield.

Then I had a bad feeling as they were absolutely unnecessary.

Bucs have the personnel to go downfield 5/10 yards at a time and Brady makes that look easy.

I'd have to lay the blame on the play caller, Leftwich, as those deep throws seemed to have been the 1st read.

 

[carmelo15]

I did until Brady started with a bomb downfield.

Then I had a bad feeling as they were absolutely unnecessary.

Bucs have the personnel to go downfield 5/10 yards at a time and Brady makes that look easy.

I'd have to lay the blame on the play caller, Leftwich, as those deep throws seemed to have been the 1st read.

Same thing as last year

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That’s good news.

I wonder how much Miller sees the field. Tyler Johnson has been solid and can run a lot more routes. Wonder if Miller becomes a 5 snaps/game player or gameplan dependent. If Brown is healthy, neither will see the field much as WR4.

Bucs designate Scotty Miller, Sean Murphy-Bunting to return from IR

The Buccaneers are on their bye in Week Nine, but they still had some positive injury news to share on Tuesday afternoon.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[amfootball]

That’s good news.

I wonder how much Miller sees the field. Tyler Johnson has been solid and can run a lot more routes. Wonder if Miller becomes a 5 snaps/game player or gameplan dependent. If Brown is healthy, neither will see the field much as WR4.

Bucs designate Scotty Miller, Sean Murphy-Bunting to return from IR

The Buccaneers are on their bye in Week Nine, but they still had some positive injury news to share on Tuesday afternoon.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Great news. Hopefully they get healthy just in time to make a run. Having Carolina twice and the Jete to end the season should be the perfect launching pad. Also look for Arians to have Brady throw a ton of Tds in those games if the MVP race is tight.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I did until Brady started with a bomb downfield.

Then I had a bad feeling as they were absolutely unnecessary.

Bucs have the personnel to go downfield 5/10 yards at a time and Brady makes that look easy.

I'd have to lay the blame on the play caller, Leftwich, as those deep throws seemed to have been the 1st read.

Bernard got blown up at the LOS and Brate was covered. Not sure if Howard is dealing with a pitch count, but I don’t know why Brate is in there for obvious passing situations; he looks completely cooked. Anyway, Evans ran an 8 yard crosser, Brate ran a short out, and Bernard was supposed to do something. Johnson ran the deep, clear out route and Godwin was only downfield about 15 yards past LOS. This wasn’t a play design issue, IMO. I think maybe we’re overanalyzing it.

Brady said he should have thrown to Evans, and it looks like that was the right throw. He threw to Godwin, which was a bigger risk. It still required a slight miscommunication and a great read/break by the safety. Usually it’s not some really high risk play, but it happens. I’m sure Brady would like it back.

 

[amfootball]

Bernard got blown up at the LOS and Brate was covered. Not sure if Howard is dealing with a pitch count, but I don’t know why Brate is in there for obvious passing situations; he looks completely cooked. Anyway, Evans ran an 8 yard crosser, Brate ran a short out, and Bernard was supposed to do something. Johnson ran the deep, clear out route and Godwin was only downfield about 15 yards past LOS. This wasn’t a play design issue, IMO. I think maybe we’re overanalyzing it.

Brady said he should have thrown to Evans, and it looks like that was the right throw. He threw to Godwin, which was a bigger risk. It still required a slight miscommunication and a great read/break by the safety. Usually it’s not some really high risk play, but it happens. I’m sure Brady would like it back.

I thought it was a really great play by the safety. He read Brady at the last second and broke on the ball. I believe it was second and ten so not sure why Brady didn't throw to Evans. I think the Bucs had 2 TOs too.

 

[Deus Irae]

That’s good news.

I wonder how much Miller sees the field. Tyler Johnson has been solid and can run a lot more routes. Wonder if Miller becomes a 5 snaps/game player or gameplan dependent. If Brown is healthy, neither will see the field much as WR4.

Bucs designate Scotty Miller, Sean Murphy-Bunting to return from IR

The Buccaneers are on their bye in Week Nine, but they still had some positive injury news to share on Tuesday afternoon.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

Wasn't Johnson the problem WR in the first INT against the Saints?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Wasn't Johnson the problem WR in the first INT against the Saints?

He might have been. Looked like either he went the wrong way or Godwin being held caused it. The game really was ridiculous with the flags going one way. A bunch of flags against the Bucs on fouls that didn’t effect the play. And no flags on a few obvious plays that did effect the play, like that one. Like “well, it’s the letter of the law” one way, and “let em play” the other.

 

[RicoG]

Wasn't Johnson the problem WR in the first INT against the Saints?

Not Johnson's fault. He was held for 10 yards pass the line of scrimmage. Of course no call but later when the Bucs ****rell did it right after the 5 yard line, a penalty was immediately called.

Godwin was in the area too. It seemed he got tangled with the defender just long enough to be out of position. I couldn't tell if it was because he was held.