OT-Colts fire Polian...

[patchick]

This is such GREAT news for the Patriots and the other properly run teams in the league. There is nothing better than a meddlesome owner for screwing up a franchise and wasting draft pick and squandering veterans. Now that Al Davis is gone I was worried that the number of idiot meddlesome owners was down to only a few (Don Synder...Jerry Jones ...) but now this great news. The Colt will be the Dolts for the foreseeable future until Ursay wises up up....which may never happen.

Not only will this help with drafts but it will be very entertaining to watch Ursay burn through coaches and players....

Am I to take from this that you think Polian was actually doing a good job and they'll miss him?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Link Please.

CBA of 2011 Section 8

(a) Provided all Salary Cap requirements are met, Player Contracts for current and future years may be renegotiated and/or extended except as follows:

(i) The contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of 12 months after the players most recent contract renegotiation. The first renegotiation of a Veteran Player Contract however may take place at any time.

Seymour's contract could not be extended or renegotiated in 2006 until 12 months had passed after the renegotiation that added $$$ to his rookie deal to placate him in 2005. Manning is in the first year of a new deal, not a renegotiation or extension, ergo his deal can be revisited any time in that first year. Not to mention that changing a date would not be increasing his salary. That option has already been applied to the Colts cap as well, which is why his dead cap if cut would not be $16M (remaining amortization from the $20M signing bonus) but rather $10M+ (after a credit/deduction for the already amortized portion of the option bonus that hit the 2011 cap).

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm not sure how this would work. First off, I'm genuinely ignorant about the current CBA restrictions on re-negotiations in a 12-month period (used to be outlawed), and the ability to re-negotiate before the league year starts.

But assuming it's possible...Irsay would have to go to Manning and say "Look, we'd really like to get rid of you. We think there are teams willing to shell out that $28 million bonus AND give us a 1st round pick for you. But right now, we have to cut you instead! Darn! Now take my word for it, those same teams lining up to pay the $28 mil + pick will only give you peanuts on the open market, so you'd be best off with a trade. So how about changing that strategically negotiated option trigger date in your contract? Oh, and by the way, if no trade materializes, YOU'RE OUR QB! WE'RE BEHIND YOU 110%!"

Irsay would have to believe Peyton is brain dead to convince him a team would be willing to pay him more after trading for him than they would to secure him without draft compensation as a UFA... Just sayin...

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Am I to take from this that you think Polian was actually doing a good job and they'll miss him?

Nope. I am saying that Irsay is a knucklehead like his father and will be making the calls from now on. Worked great for Al Davis and Don Synder. The more meddlesome idiot owners the better as long as Krafts run the Patriots.

 

[Batroc]

For some reason, i think you aren't being sarcastic and actually think that the Pats drafts have been bad.. *sigh*

Actually I was talking about Polian and the Colts lol.

 

[AQPE]

Nope. I am saying that Irsay is a knucklehead like his father and will be making the calls from now on. Worked great for Al Davis and Don Synder. The more meddlesome idiot owners the better as long as Krafts run the Patriots.

24 hours ago I would have agreed with you about Irsay. After watching his press conference today, however, my opinion of him has changed (at least for now ).

The one thing Irsay said that I found particularly notable was that Bill Polian is likely to retire in the next two or three years. If this is correct, then Irsay's decision to make the move now makes a lot of sense, especially if he is already dissatisfied with Bill and Chris Polian's performance the past two seasons (since they lost the Super Bowl to New Orleans, they have gone downhill precipitously), and on that basis he has also concluded that Chris Polian is not whom he wants taking over the franchise after Bill retires.

So, I think there is a solid case to make that this is exactly the right time to bring in someone new to manage the football operation. Based on my (limited) observation of Irsay over the years, I'm surprised he had the moxie to make this move, but I think it's the right one for that team. If they do keep Peyton (and I've thought all along that they will), that first pick can easily bring them a wealth of assets they can convert to turn things around quickly (especially on their offensive and defensive lines). I'd suspect that Washington, Miami, Seattle, and Cleveland would be in the hunt for the #1 pick (and it wouldn't surprise me if Buffalo or Philadelphia took a shot too). If they are going with Peyton and don't use the #1 overall pick on their QB of the future, my observation of college football this year suggests that they may be able to get that QB of the future in the second or third round and be in a better position to transition that guy without the same amount of controversy they'd be faced with if they draft Luck or RGIII.

 

[Ununcle]

I didn't read the whole thread but IMO there's obviously a rift in regard to the 1 pick they got. It looks to me like the owner want's to draft Luck and the Polians didn't. It looks that simple.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Nope. I am saying that Irsay is a knucklehead like his father and will be making the calls from now on. Worked great for Al Davis and Don Synder. The more meddlesome idiot owners the better as long as Krafts run the Patriots.

He's a kook, not to be mistaken for a knucklehead. He brought Polian in when he had the #1 draft pick lined up for him. He brought Dungy in when he didn't like the atmosphere Mora was creating. He axed Polian for the same reason. Polian had been all about setting his kid up as his successor. Irsay just reminded Polian it wasn't his team.

I read an article about Irsay growing up with the drunken abusive ahole dad he was always apologizing to players and coaches and fans for. He's nothing like him. He's loyal almost to a fault. Polian is likely out because Irsay knew that Chris wasn't GM material and he had with his dad's help managed to alienate most of the old school coaches and scouts that helped Indy develop into a dominant team, almost like his old man used to. I think he senses Polian was all about landing Luck to insure his kid had his own 14 year run. Irsay won't walk away from Peyton. If he can play he will play as a Colt. If not he will draft Luck and set out to rebuild a team around him. That starts with better coaching and communication and scouting and drafting and probably some FA acquisitions which Polian had become adverse to.

Irsay knows his market and he knows that the team will never face the kind of challenges they faced prior to winning one and prior to getting a new stadium built and prior to losing 14. Expectations will be more manageable this time around and I don't think he will let his next GM develop a napolean complex and alienate even that stepford fan base of theirs....

 

[pdangle]

Yes I was pretty shocked to hear this. Anyway, if they put me in charge I would...

Draft Luck.

Pick up Manning's option (maximize his value), eat the 38M for 2012 (this team is gonna stink anyway), trade him for a king's ransom (ideally for several high picks over the next few years), parlay the picks into higher round picks a draft or two later, and totally infuse the team with as much new talent as possible.

Let picks and Luck mature 3+yrs.

Of course if I go that route I might as well blow it all up, and use the same Manning "dump and rebuild" strategy with Freeney, et al., when the time is right.

Voila. BB would be kissing my rings around 2015 or so...

 

[WhiZa]

Not enough blame was given to Polian about the way he built the team. It was all based on how well Manning played and not how the team played. Polian should have known long ago that Manning could be out at any moment, but he didn't spend enough time grooming a replacement. In my opinion it was more his fault that the team failed rather then the team and coaching staff.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

He's a kook, not to be mistaken for a knucklehead.


Irsay knows his market and he knows that the team will never face the kind of challenges they faced prior to winning one and prior to getting a new stadium built and prior to losing 14. Expectations will be more manageable this time around and I don't think he will let his next GM develop a napolean complex and alienate even that stepford fan base of theirs....

I based what I said on what Adam Shefter discussed yesterday; he said that Irsay wanted to exert more control and call the shots as far as personnel decisions. This is a red flag...

 

[DaBruinz]

Seymour's contract could not be extended or renegotiated in 2006 until 12 months had passed after the renegotiation that added $$$ to his rookie deal to placate him in 2005. Manning is in the first year of a new deal, not a renegotiation or extension, ergo his deal can be revisited any time in that first year. Not to mention that changing a date would not be increasing his salary. That option has already been applied to the Colts cap as well, which is why his dead cap if cut would not be $16M (remaining amortization from the $20M signing bonus) but rather $10M+ (after a credit/deduction for the already amortized portion of the option bonus that hit the 2011 cap).

I appreciate the info, Mo..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Yes I was pretty shocked to hear this. Anyway, if they put me in charge I would...

Draft Luck.

Pick up Manning's option (maximize his value), eat the 38M for 2012 (this team is gonna stink anyway), trade him for a king's ransom (ideally for several high picks over the next few years), parlay the picks into higher round picks a draft or two later, and totally infuse the team with as much new talent as possible.

Let picks and Luck mature 3+yrs.

Of course if I go that route I might as well blow it all up, and use the same Manning "dump and rebuild" strategy with Freeney, et al., when the time is right.

Voila. BB would be kissing my rings around 2015 or so...

It's not even that easy since you don't get to eat the $38M in 2012. Rather it dogs your cap decreasing by just $9.5M per and at Peyton's age you're not going to get several of anything high for him even healthy as he approaches 40. So you keep him for a year to mentor Luck and then if you trade him your 2013 cap takes a $28.5M hit...

It really is down to this. If he's healthy he's back, Irsay has been clear on that and that is what Manning wants - the ability to finish out his NFL legacy as a Colt Icon. I think where they still have some divergent opinions to has out is whether you spend that #1 on his replacement this season or parlay it into rebuilding the team around him and picking up the QB in the later rounds or a later draft and setting him up to be developed to take over a rebuilt team (sure that would be Peyton's preference). When it gets really dicey is if they can't definitively decide whether or not he's healthy or going to be able to return to close to pre injury levels. If he's still unsure as well (and therefore not likely to move on) he may reach an accommodation with Irsay that leaves his options open. If not, they part company and as much as he loves him Irsay has to pray his career is really over because if not it may come back and haunt him this time next year or the year after...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I based what I said on what Adam Shefter discussed yesterday; he said that Irsay wanted to exert more control and call the shots as far as personnel decisions. This is a red flag...

No more so than when Robert decided to assert himself...

Irsay didn't fall off a turnup truck and land an NFL franchise. He worked within the organization his entire life and learned from his fathers mistakes. He canned the whole lot of 'em at the end of 1997 and brought in Polian to oversee the rebuilding of his franchise roster. He gave Polian carte blanch although when talent aside the wheels were still falling off the wagon in 2001 he canned Polian's HC (playoffs...playoffs??) on the same day Dungy got fired in Tampa and hired him on the spot. I don't think Tony was the greatest HC in history, but he was exactly what that organization needed at the time, a bridge between the ascerbic ahole that Polian inherently was and the overwound talent that Manning was and an afterthought defense that couldn't stop a sneeze. He balanced out their divergent ying and yang to the point they were able to come together as a team and compete for and finally (even if it took a little luck) win a Lombardi. And even hang together long enough after he departed to contend for another. That hire was a stroke of genius. It's just the longer he was gone the bigger the divide or disconnect was again developing not just between offense and defense but between players and coaches and scouting staff who felt increasingly marginalized by the abrasive ego with one foot out the door and his apparently equally abrasive kid he was intent on setting up to succeed at their expense.

Irsay knows toxic, he grew up surrounded by it. He knew therefore it was time to clean house and move on. Remains to be seen if he will fare as well this time around, but this was clearly the time to take the shot.

 

[everlong]

The other thing about Manning being a free agent is there aren't a lot of great fits for him.

Of the teams that could look to switch up.

Miami - Perhaps the best fit. Matt Moore hasn't been bad but vs a NFL HOFer it's no content. Miami is a warm weather team with decent skill players and a great defense. With Bush, Marshall, Hartline and Bess it's something he would find reasonable attractive.

NYJ - Cap prohibitive and I cannot see Peyton walking into that mess plus its a cold weather situation.

Cleveland - McCoy isn't bad and Holgrin wants to run the west coast offense. Marginal skill players and a cold weather stadium don't make it attractive nor does playing the three defenses in that division 6 times total.

Tennessee - This has some possibilities where he went to school there. Skill position is OK but not great. In between in terms of weather. This would come off as a screw you to the Colts in a Farvesque way and I think Peyton would account for that.

Jacksonville - Not happening. Their skill players aren't good and you're dealing with a fan base that hates him not only from his Colts days but his UT days going against UFA.

Denver - Interesting symmetry given Elway refused to play for the Colts but it's cold weather and their skill position players aren't very good.

Washington -Cold weather and marginal skilled players. Not sure if he has a good relationship with Shanny but that would be a much different offense for him, can't see it.

Minnesota - Dome sweet dome. They would need to get Harvin resigned, AP's injury status is up in the air and the defense sucks.

Tampa - Only if they rehire Dungy after making Polian the new GM. Freeman hasn't progressed but I can't see them giving up on him yet.

AZ -This one has some merit but they would have to either cut Kolb or keep two high priced QBs on the roster. I'm sure stadium and Fitzgerald would be selling points.

Seattle -The need is certainly there. I'm not sure about him playing in the Pacific NW under Mr Jacked and pumped.

We are talking about a HOF player so who knows how teams will justify it that's just my quick take.

 

[jays52]

I think San Fran is a major sleeper....

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Dallas - Jerry Jones is frustrated with Romo's inability to git er done and loves being the center of attention. A dome and a HC/OC that Manning could dominate. Skill players on offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's a bit of 'news' regarding the Colts:

Kravitz dropped a bombshell during an intriguing 15-minute chat. Kravitz believes that the Colts, who continue to employ Jim Caldwell as the head coach but neither Vice Chairman Bill Polian or G.M. Chris Polian, already have reached out to Jeff Fisher.

Kravitz thinks Colts have already reached out to Jeff Fisher | ProFootballTalk

 

[Bella*chick]

Jeff Fisher is such an a-hole. If they hire him, my hate for the Colts can continue unabated.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Here's a bit of 'news' regarding the Colts:



Kravitz thinks Colts have already reached out to Jeff Fisher | ProFootballTalk

With Polian gone and input on the GM that could be just the dream scenario Jeffie has been waiting for. He'd even likely get his seat back on the anti competition committee. He's been the Colts wet dream replacement for Caldwell all along but was never going to go there with either Polian still at the helm. He was kind of screwed in Tennessee because of the ownership and infighting but then again if you listen to Floyd's wife he's something of a backstabber.

Has to be a better gig than either Miami or St. Louis...